Do you believe in UFO?

[xbuzzerx]

Because if they WERE coming to study the Earth they would begin in small rural areas where they could more easily insert themselves. A higher tech zone and they are at greater risk of discovery. And if it is an invasion they have a better chance of "blending in" in those "bum-fuck" communities you speak of as their errors would likely be taken for common idiosyncrasies by the "bum-fuck" idiots. Then as they move on toward larger cities the "fact" that they moved from one of those areas would cause much of said idiosyncrasies to be overlooked. Excellent camouflage.... but I guess it would take a greater than human intelligence to figure it out.

Run with the assumption for just a moment that nearly every sighting/abduction/whatever has been true. That's not at all my belief but let's just assume it for the moment.

Aliens wouldn't need to lift a finger to "cover themselves." We convince ourselves it's all fake and improbable bordering on impossible just through our skepticism.

That being said, there's no reason to assume aliens would care if they were detected or not. It assumes a specific mindset on their part that they'd be studying us covertly and wanting to avoid any kind of knowledge of their presence that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

 

[ibill1]

Believe what you want. In 1996 on final approach into LAX at 7:25 in the morning, an object that I could only describe as a huge lamp, passed under our aircraft as we were landing to the west and it was traveling east. It appeared to be a probe of some sort obviously undetectable by our radar. Others in the flight crew saw it. It was something I had never seen before or since.

 

[Willie Boy]

Run with the assumption for just a moment that nearly every sighting/abduction/whatever has been true. That's not at all my belief but let's just assume it for the moment.

Why would I want to assume such a ludicrous idea?

Aliens wouldn't need to lift a finger to "cover themselves." We convince ourselves it's all fake and improbable bordering on impossible just through our skepticism.

And where does that skepticism come from? Longstanding "sightings" in such areas that are shown to be either hoaxes or just "bum-fuck" morons seeing electrical discharges in swamp gas....... If it hadn't been for that buildup the population as a whole wouldn't be so quick to wave off some of the more credible sightings. As it is, even those are discounted by the general population.

That being said, there's no reason to assume aliens would care if they were detected or not. It assumes a specific mindset on their part that they'd be studying us covertly and wanting to avoid any kind of knowledge of their presence that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

Aliens (if they exist) are visiting Earth, either to study us or to prepare to invade.... In either case one could only assume they wouldn't want to be known. If one plans to attack the element of surprise is quite beneficial, and the best research data is garnered when the subject is unaware he/she/it is being observed.

The only way they wouldn't try to hide is if they wanted us to know they are here (research is complete and they offer friendship/trade or attack plans are ready and sleeper cells are in place). If they were to come as friends they would likely make their presence known with a flashy appearance to instill awe/respect for their advanced technology (gives them an edge at the negotiating tables). If, on the other hand, they came to fight..... Well that would depend on the reason for the attack (Do they just want to conquer and subjugate the people, do they want to eradicate humanity, do they just need resources - having used up their own world's resources long ago) ? There are so many different variables one could create a whole thread just to discuss the possibilities.

This stuff ain't rocket science, just simple common sense and reason.

 

[xbuzzerx]

And where does that skepticism come from? Longstanding "sightings" in such areas that are shown to be either hoaxes or just "bum-fuck" morons seeing electrical discharges in swamp gas....... If it hadn't been for that buildup the population as a whole wouldn't be so quick to wave off some of the more credible sightings. As it is, even those are discounted by the general population.

The skepticism applies equally to the wild hoaxes as to the less explained scenarios.

Aliens (if they exist) are visiting Earth, either to study us or to prepare to invade.... In either case one could only assume they wouldn't want to be known. If one plans to attack the element of surprise is quite beneficial, and the best research data is garnered when the subject is unaware he/she/it is being observed.

The "invasion" scenario is from pure sci fi fiction; as to the second what stealth technology do human researchers employ when they study or tag anything in nature, other than small measures to approach quietly to avoid a fight or flight response from an animal?

 

[dereperez]

I believe in unidentified aircraft and I believe in extraterrestrial beings...but I don't think the unidentified aircraft that people claim to see are said extraterrestrial beings visiting us.

 

[Alnitak]

LOL Good one JP.

The object most certainly is not identified

Anyway, the chances of extraterrestrial intelligence are a lot smaller than you see reported in the media. Life itself requires a balance of elements, a stable non-variable star, a stable nearly circular orbit, a cleared out orbit, stable rotation, a magnetosphere, an atmosphere with an oxidizing agent, a universal solvent such as water, intense free chemical energy to initiate code sequencing ... and a laundry list of MUSTs continues for intelligent life, including a narrow set of critical evolutionary traits and environmental events to kickstart civilization, not to mention it took 4.5 billion years to create us. There probably is not intelligent life anywhere else in this galaxy. The convergence of these factors, most of which I did not name, is too unlikely. It was seriously unlikely that it ever happened here.

So that's one count. Two, unless they have figured out to break conservation of energy, interstellar travel is probably impossible.

Three, interstellar communication is not possible. Signals fade out after one light year, i.e. Alpha Centauri is not getting reruns of V.

Four, it takes intellectual curiosity to achieve technological advancements. They would have tried to contact us by now.

Five, civilizations are not likely to last long, as ours probably will not. Carl Sagan RIP championed this view. Stephen Hawking does as well. How is it that these aliens happened to appear just as man achieves space flight... Funny coincidence.

 

[eastofeden]

Of course. The universe is infinite...and so are the possibilities....

 

[xbuzzerx]

Four, it takes intellectual curiosity to achieve technological advancements. They would have tried to contact us by now.

Have we tried to "contact" ant colonies or octopus?

Considering the relatively tiny DNA difference between a beetle and a blue whale, and the fact that anything extraterrestrial is likely to be substantially more different, I believe it's possible for both life and intelligence to be so diverse as to potentially not even fully recognize each other.

 

[Alnitak]

Have we tried to "contact" ant colonies or octopus?

Yeah I've heard this specious argument before, but those examples are not self aware or capable of abstract thinking.

Considering the relatively tiny DNA difference between a beetle and a blue whale, and the fact that anything extraterrestrial is likely to be substantially more different, I believe it's possible for both life and intelligence to be so diverse as to potentially not even fully recognize each other.

Oh you're killing me now. I just saw a graphic with all different life forms and their comparative percentages of DNA in common with us. It might have been in a National Geographic. I don't remember what it was with beetles but the difference was not tiny. Anyway, no I don't think there can be a difference so substantial that the definitions of sensory input and intelligence make mutual recognition impossible.

 

[Willie Boy]

The "invasion" scenario is from pure sci fi fiction;

Science fiction fiction? You were almost passing yourself off as intellectual until that blunder.......

as to the second what stealth technology do human researchers employ when they study or tag anything in nature, other than small measures to approach quietly to avoid a fight or flight response from an animal?

Suddenly plants, animals, and insects are now sentient beings?

 

[JPGhost]

LOL Good one JP.

The object most certainly is not identified

Anyway, the chances of extraterrestrial intelligence are a lot smaller than you see reported in the media. Life itself requires a balance of elements, a stable non-variable star, a stable nearly circular orbit, a cleared out orbit, stable rotation, a magnetosphere, an atmosphere with an oxidizing agent, a universal solvent such as water, intense free chemical energy to initiate code sequencing ... and a laundry list of MUSTs continues for intelligent life, including a narrow set of critical evolutionary traits and environmental events to kickstart civilization, not to mention it took 4.5 billion years to create us. There probably is not intelligent life anywhere else in this galaxy. The convergence of these factors, most of which I did not name, is too unlikely. It was seriously unlikely that it ever happened here.

So that's one count. Two, unless they have figured out to break conservation of energy, interstellar travel is probably impossible.

Three, interstellar communication is not possible. Signals fade out after one light year, i.e. Alpha Centauri is not getting reruns of V.

Four, it takes intellectual curiosity to achieve technological advancements. They would have tried to contact us by now.

Five, civilizations are not likely to last long, as ours probably will not. Carl Sagan RIP championed this view. Stephen Hawking does as well. How is it that these aliens happened to appear just as man achieves space flight... Funny coincidence.

skeptics dont make the world a better place

* you should use your research skill on my team tbh

 

[peeonme]

I believe that it is more than probable that there is intelligent life else where in that universe, I would have to be quite a sceptic to think
we are the only planet where life exists.
As for the UFOS' I believe it is possible that we been visited by space crafts perhaps "unmanned" just as we have sent space crafts off to explore other worlds and to seek out new civilizations... to boldly, well you get the idea.

 

[JPGhost]

As for the UFOS' I believe it is possible that we been visited by space crafts perhaps "unmanned" just as we have sent space crafts off to explore other worlds and to seek out new civilizations... to boldly, well you get the idea.

No..there is/are "man" inside of it

 

[Alnitak]

Science fiction fiction? You were almost passing yourself off as intellectual until that blunder.......



Suddenly plants, animals, and insects are now sentient beings?

Why are you in such a good mood today. Did ya run over a small child today on your way to work?

 

[jdbadboy]

I don't think the wording of this poll makes any sense. While I believe that life may exist outside of our solar system (or even on another planet or moon in our solar system) I don't think what people call UFOs constitute any sort of evidence of being visited by aliens.

 

[Alnitak]

I don't think the wording of this poll makes any sense. While I believe that life may exist outside of our solar system (or even on another planet or moon in our solar system) I don't think what people call UFOs constitute any sort of evidence of being visited by aliens.

If it's found on Europa don't be surprised

 

[xbuzzerx]

Yeah I've heard this specious argument before, but those examples are not self aware or capable of abstract thinking.

You make that conclusion sound much more firm and scientific than it actually is. Our understanding of intelligence, how it works, what creates it, and what constitutes it is rudimentary. It's philosophical at best and heavily boxed within our own frame of reference as a species. When we go about "testing" if other animals are "intelligent" we effectively test how much or how little they appear to think or process as we do.

The reason I mentioned ants is because their communication within a colony is almost entirely scent-driven via chemical releases. Presuming they were intelligent, how would you communicate with them?

Oh you're killing me now. I just saw a graphic with all different life forms and their comparative percentages of DNA in common with us. It might have been in a National Geographic. I don't remember what it was with beetles but the difference was not tiny. Anyway, no I don't think there can be a difference so substantial that the definitions of sensory input and intelligence make mutual recognition impossible.

So you are saying you can look at the behavior of any animal in any context and immediately identify whether the behavior is instinctual, learned, or improvised?

 

[xbuzzerx]

Science fiction fiction? You were almost passing yourself off as intellectual until that blunder.......

Yes, I think that viewing the motives of any theoretical alien visits through the lens of "painting us for an invasion" is inspired by fiction and probably has incredibly less basis in rational reality than sci-fi implies. Your position is that any extraterrestrial life that visited would have a self-evident motive for being undetected and when I pointed out that there is no reason to assume that, you came back talking about alien invasions.

 

[Willie Boy]

Yes, I think that viewing the motives of any theoretical alien visits through the lens of "painting us for an invasion" is inspired by fiction and probably has incredibly less basis in rational reality than sci-fi implies.

Quite the assumption on your part. If aliens are visiting it isn't going to be to ask us for our advanced technology. They may be altruistic and want to help us along in our quest for the stars..... or more likely they'll want to keep an eye on us to ensure we do not become a threat to them. If they are at all militaristic (and from a view of our own nations there is no reason to suggest otherwise) they will be far more likely to see a need to gain control (aka conquer) of our society. And they will have the advanced technology to do so.

Your position is that any extraterrestrial life that visited would have a self-evident motive for being undetected and when I pointed out that there is no reason to assume that, you came back talking about alien invasions.

That was not my position at all. My position is that any alien life that is visiting us is just as likely to be hostile as not. I also pointed out that there are many reasons why aliens would want to keep their presence hidden from us. Remember we humans, as a society, still believe we are the center of the universe - and alone in it as sentient beings. If aliens are here, and not hostile, they will not want to inadvertently cause an "us vs them" reaction. Humanity has proven itself to be quite closed-minded and violent over the centuries. It is making progress, but any alien presence, friendly or hostile, would be intelligent enough to know not to risk premature exposure. They would first have to take steps to be seen as guests and not threats. To do that they would need to gather recon. That would mean scouts who blend in, not obvious aliens who stick out like sore thumbs.

It has nothing to do with movies. It has to do with common sense, and behaviors of people in general. Humanity does have a fear of the unknown. Many are making attempts to conquer that fear by embracing the unknown. Good, but too far and it can be dangerous.

 

[Alnitak]

You make that conclusion sound much more firm and scientific than it actually is. Our understanding of intelligence, how it works, what creates it, and what constitutes it is rudimentary.

This sounds like obfuscation to me, casting doubt just for the sake of it.

The reason I mentioned ants is because their communication within a colony is almost entirely scent-driven via chemical releases. Presuming they were intelligent, how would you communicate with them?

That does not change the fact that they are not self aware or think abstractly, for example, value placement.

Ant pheromones is a thoroughly researched science. We know what they do, and no, ants do not exercise abstract intelligence.

So you are saying you can look at the behavior of any animal in any context and immediately identify whether the behavior is instinctual, learned, or improvised?

Yes.