Jeimuzu
The Ire Brigade
If it wasn't, I wouldn't be working towards mine.
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Do you think a college degree is important?
- Thread starter Jory
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tx_doc
Anything is possible.
It can be important in some situations. But I do see some problems with it.
I work for a major computer company in the finance sector. I remember being in a panel interviewing prospective applicants. One came in without a degree but with 10 years of experience. Another person came in right out of college with a degree but it was in photography. I wanted the person with the experience but was outnumbered. Most of the other panelists wanted the person with the degree, because she had a degree. Even if the degree had absolutely nothing to do with the position.
I work for a major computer company in the finance sector. I remember being in a panel interviewing prospective applicants. One came in without a degree but with 10 years of experience. Another person came in right out of college with a degree but it was in photography. I wanted the person with the experience but was outnumbered. Most of the other panelists wanted the person with the degree, because she had a degree. Even if the degree had absolutely nothing to do with the position.
You should go back and get your GED. You might not consider college to be important now, but in a few years time you might be thinking differently. Finish high school to keep the post secondary option open.I don't even have a HS, if I wanna earn good money I'll have to start my own business (soon).
It is easier to make good money with a degree, but I never wanted to have a boss, or go the deskjob route, so...It wasnt right for me.
Im glad my sister is still in college
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trydegrau, listen to rotary...he is a wise man...
Pushyourluck
JUB Addict
I know people who having studied for two years in college, got their degree who are now unemployed and have been for the past 12 months. The degree's they took (one in art and the other in psychology) don't translate very well into the job market.
They both aren't even sure of what it is they want to do with their lives even though they've studied all that time. I never went to college yet i've worked all my life (from the age of 14) and have racked up enough experiance and savings to start my own business. I've calculated that in another two years I should be earning 50k a year doing what I do. I can't see my college educated friends even getting off the sofa to get a job in the next two years.
They both aren't even sure of what it is they want to do with their lives even though they've studied all that time. I never went to college yet i've worked all my life (from the age of 14) and have racked up enough experiance and savings to start my own business. I've calculated that in another two years I should be earning 50k a year doing what I do. I can't see my college educated friends even getting off the sofa to get a job in the next two years.
Zingerific
JUB Addict
In terms of employment, whether or not college is important depends on the individual. Like many have said, many field require not only a degree, but some post-graduate education as well. You can't go to law school without going to college first.
What hasn't yet been mentioned is the contribution of the student or the quality of the university. If someone goes to a diploma-mill and does just enough to get by, well, the degree isn't worth much. But if someone is actually interested in what they are studying and puts in work at an institution well-regarded in that field, then the degree is probably worth a good deal more.
I went to a liberal arts college and majored in philosophy. No, I am not flipping burgers It's true that philosophy directly applies to nothing, but very few people end up working in the exact field they studied in. I will say, though, that when people see my degree in philosophy, they think I'm pretty smart (and I don't take the time to correct them -- ha ha).
There is so much more to college than just learning stuff to get a good job. I know that lots of people have had poor college experiences, but I had a great one, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, even if it didn't lead to financial rewards later on. It's also true that some people just aren't interested in college, and that's great too. I think it's a very personal decision, one that I wouldn't make on the basis of money alone.
What hasn't yet been mentioned is the contribution of the student or the quality of the university. If someone goes to a diploma-mill and does just enough to get by, well, the degree isn't worth much. But if someone is actually interested in what they are studying and puts in work at an institution well-regarded in that field, then the degree is probably worth a good deal more.
I went to a liberal arts college and majored in philosophy. No, I am not flipping burgers
It's true that philosophy directly applies to nothing, but very few people end up working in the exact field they studied in. I will say, though, that when people see my degree in philosophy, they think I'm pretty smart (and I don't take the time to correct them -- ha ha).There is so much more to college than just learning stuff to get a good job. I know that lots of people have had poor college experiences, but I had a great one, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, even if it didn't lead to financial rewards later on. It's also true that some people just aren't interested in college, and that's great too. I think it's a very personal decision, one that I wouldn't make on the basis of money alone.
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I don't think that 2 years of college is enough. Going to college does not give you any guarantees in life but it does give you more possibilities to succeed. But then again, there are almost never any real guarantees in life, except death.
Congratulations on doing well. But statistically, the odds of doing well career wise goes up much more when you have degrees. For people to purchase a home in California, people need to have household incomes of more than $100k per year. Most condos in California are starting at over $450k. Getting a higher education significantly increases peoples chances of earning that kind of money.
People who question the importance of higher education, I wish that you could come to one of my community events so that you can talk with my neighbors. It's a no brainer. Again, there are no guarantees and you can find people that do well without them, but most of them that do well do have them.
My friend and I had a conversation about this a few days back.
A college education now is becoming more and more important. Of course college is not for everyone, however, the salary gap between those with a highschool degree and a college degree is getting larger very quickly.
I still think the scary thing is that if (and when I have) my child and he wants to go to college, I would not be surprised if it costs about 100k a year.
A college education now is becoming more and more important. Of course college is not for everyone, however, the salary gap between those with a highschool degree and a college degree is getting larger very quickly.
I still think the scary thing is that if (and when I have) my child and he wants to go to college, I would not be surprised if it costs about 100k a year.
T
trydegrau
Guest
what's a GED? I don't think ive heard of that in Quebec.
Smoking pot isn't gonna prevent me from having a business. I think you may have been taken in by the anti-drug propaganda. Ive had many, many jobs, and 3/4 of the proprietors were not straight edge. In all cases, you have your vices like I have mine, mine used to be a lot worse than a little toking
LarsVenice
Space Cadet
It depends on what you want to do, but for many professions, it is a requirement. If you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, architect, teacher, etc., you won't get in the door without the proper education. If you want to be an accredited interior designer, you must first have a design degree and then go through an intern process before you can even take the test for accreditation. The other choice is to be a decorator, which is still a viable option.
Not only does the degree matter, but it also matters which university you go to. If you attend Princeton, Harvard, Yale, or similar school, you will meet people who can help you advance in your career. Princeton is famous for the networking opportunities it provides. Some universities are better at training people for careers than others, and I found state schools better for this than private ones, although the education may be better at private schools. State schools teach you how to deal with bureaucracy, which can be annoying but is useful.
Not only does the degree matter, but it also matters which university you go to. If you attend Princeton, Harvard, Yale, or similar school, you will meet people who can help you advance in your career. Princeton is famous for the networking opportunities it provides. Some universities are better at training people for careers than others, and I found state schools better for this than private ones, although the education may be better at private schools. State schools teach you how to deal with bureaucracy, which can be annoying but is useful.
Johnny Yen
Monster of Love
A college degree is important for those with are just starting a career - it can be the edge they need to get in the door.
A college degree is no a guarantee of success.
In the service industry - and face it, almost every job is in the service industry, most employers are looking for a person with a BA and strong communication skills... or a person who has 5 years of qualified experience.
In my field our manager trainees are fresh out of college with their BA - during their first year of employment they earn roughly $35,000.00 plus bonus incentives for their first assignment. Those who are recruited from other employers are paid the industry standard of $50,000.00 to $60,000.00 depending on their history and proven track record.
As you move up the career path your level of eduction becomes less important and what you have achieved for the company becomes more important.
A college degree is no a guarantee of success.
In the service industry - and face it, almost every job is in the service industry, most employers are looking for a person with a BA and strong communication skills... or a person who has 5 years of qualified experience.
In my field our manager trainees are fresh out of college with their BA - during their first year of employment they earn roughly $35,000.00 plus bonus incentives for their first assignment. Those who are recruited from other employers are paid the industry standard of $50,000.00 to $60,000.00 depending on their history and proven track record.
As you move up the career path your level of eduction becomes less important and what you have achieved for the company becomes more important.
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Not necessarily true. I have heard of so many storiees where people are not able to move up because they do not have a degree. They have the expereince but no degree. The person with the degree and experience is the one that gets the position.
Even if you work for yourself, the knowledge and networking that you can gain in college can be very vauable for your business.
H
Hard4cumshots
Guest
This misconception is that it's "just a piece of paper", but it changes HOW you think about things. Going to college exposes you to new ideas, new infromation, it makes you pay attention to areas of the world you didn't know existed or didn't take time to learn about before.
It can be a double edged sword for some people. When you apply for jobs (depending on the position) they might say you're over qualified b/c of the degree or you don't have enough experience.
It's a crap shoot really.
It can be a double edged sword for some people. When you apply for jobs (depending on the position) they might say you're over qualified b/c of the degree or you don't have enough experience.
It's a crap shoot really.
AngelFromAbove
JUB Addict
It sounds like someone has some personal issue(s) with college graduates. Theories are only useless to people who do not know when, where, and how to apply them. Personally, college has not taught me everything I know. On the other hand, real life experiences would have never given me a well-rounded, objective view of life.
This is not to say that people's personal experiences count for nothing or that there are non-college people who are not broad-minded. What this is saying is that many people are too subjective and often try to spread their personal experiences as if they are, were, and forever will be The Gospel. Honestly, if it were not for educational systems, everyone would have his or her own version of math (although some have personal versions anyway). Catch my drift?
Don't be so quick to state that someone who has gone through college has not come up the hard way or imply that a college-educated person is incompetent.
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Yes if you are planning to enter a profession or occupation that requires it for entry. For example it is so in medicine, legal practice, dentistry, teaching, and a lot of other places. I have eleven years of higher education past highschool. I use all of it and continue to study. Principally I want to study Japanese, Mandarin Chinense, and Korean languages this year and in time I want to study in western China at a Chinese University.
I am planning to begin a doctorate degree, a three year program either in Chicago, or Gettysburg, PA in 2009. That is for my enjoyment, and if it is useful that is OK too. But college is not for everyone nor is it required in our society. It depends on what you want to do with your life, and how willing you are to achieve your goal of attending and completing the class work necessary.
I value all kinds of people I hope equally. I need to have a good mechanic fix my car. I probably could do it sometimes, but I have six thumbs on each hand, and I do not know mechanics well enough nor have a will to learn it, so my auto mechanic or electrician, or plumber, or lawn man is no less important than I am important. Each of us has a place and a job. Hopefully we can identify it fairly early in life, but it is never too late to change. Every man or woman is a working man or woman. Every man and woman is valuable, to each of us, and us to others.
Shep+
I am planning to begin a doctorate degree, a three year program either in Chicago, or Gettysburg, PA in 2009. That is for my enjoyment, and if it is useful that is OK too. But college is not for everyone nor is it required in our society. It depends on what you want to do with your life, and how willing you are to achieve your goal of attending and completing the class work necessary.
I value all kinds of people I hope equally. I need to have a good mechanic fix my car. I probably could do it sometimes, but I have six thumbs on each hand, and I do not know mechanics well enough nor have a will to learn it, so my auto mechanic or electrician, or plumber, or lawn man is no less important than I am important. Each of us has a place and a job. Hopefully we can identify it fairly early in life, but it is never too late to change. Every man or woman is a working man or woman. Every man and woman is valuable, to each of us, and us to others.
Shep+
Another anecdote -for what it's worth.
An employee of mine went to work for a big company in town. A year later he wanted to move up to a higher position being advertised within the company. He took out a second mortgage and spent it on MCSE (Microsoft) certification training. Just as he finished, they changed the job requirements to include a college degree. Six years later he's still in the same bureaucratic back-water he started in because he didn't have that piece of paper.
An employee of mine went to work for a big company in town. A year later he wanted to move up to a higher position being advertised within the company. He took out a second mortgage and spent it on MCSE (Microsoft) certification training. Just as he finished, they changed the job requirements to include a college degree. Six years later he's still in the same bureaucratic back-water he started in because he didn't have that piece of paper.
E
Endlight
Guest
I hired a lot of employees in my life and as time went on, a degree became almost, then always, a pre-requisite.
As the positions demanded some authority and knowledge, the degree was mandatory. When I asked personnel to screen the applications which came in by the hundreds, if "a degree" was not indicated, even if skipped by the applicant, that resume/application was discarded. That was the first cut, then of course, experience, knowledge etc did come into play.
How many good employees were missed, I will never know. But the herd had to be culled. Sometimes a senior position would have several hundred applicants. We had to start the cut somewhere. I agree with many, that the degree was not always what got the individual to the interview level, but applicants who did not indicate a degree, were definitely not on the short lists.
A national Canada wide posting of mine produced seven hundred applications; can you imagine the time it took to bring it down to one sucessful applicant and a short list of five possible future candidates? Yes this was a responsible government position and we had to stay on the right side of all the Bills of rights, unions, and Equality groups. Still.
To those still studying, take it from me, for you, doors will be easier to open.
Nothing against self made individuals here. Just the facts as I lived it.
I must add that, the degree level was of great importance and not just a cutting line as my post might indicate.
As the positions demanded some authority and knowledge, the degree was mandatory. When I asked personnel to screen the applications which came in by the hundreds, if "a degree" was not indicated, even if skipped by the applicant, that resume/application was discarded. That was the first cut, then of course, experience, knowledge etc did come into play.
How many good employees were missed, I will never know. But the herd had to be culled. Sometimes a senior position would have several hundred applicants. We had to start the cut somewhere. I agree with many, that the degree was not always what got the individual to the interview level, but applicants who did not indicate a degree, were definitely not on the short lists.
A national Canada wide posting of mine produced seven hundred applications; can you imagine the time it took to bring it down to one sucessful applicant and a short list of five possible future candidates? Yes this was a responsible government position and we had to stay on the right side of all the Bills of rights, unions, and Equality groups. Still.
To those still studying, take it from me, for you, doors will be easier to open.
Nothing against self made individuals here. Just the facts as I lived it.
I must add that, the degree level was of great importance and not just a cutting line as my post might indicate.
RobbyIsTehCool
Slut
Organizing my thoughts so I can respond to this in an efficient matter has been a little difficult. Discussing a degree is like discussing a tool of any other sort. A screw driver is great when I'm trying to put together a cabinet, useless when I need to plant a tree. The many sorts of degrees each require a specialized response, and clearly I am not going to do that.
Instead, I am going to do my best to make clear my opinion in general, and I may end up discussing this at some length, as a fair warning to all involved. I am then going to put my story as its written up, in the hopes that it will aid in making clear my meaning.
First, the caveat.
This doesn't apply to every sort of degree, particularly those involving technical knowledge.
To really hit the bottom of this arguement persay we need to first shine two different lights on a degree. The practical light and the, for the purposes of this arguement, existential light. Note: I use existential only because I'm having trouble finding another word I like more.
In a practical sense a degree is completely and totally useful, ergo important. To deny this is to deny gravity, frankly. The numbers are in, you can't fight them. A person with a degree is more likely to generate a higher income, gain the respect of people and of companies, and in general have an easier life. There is also a correlation between having degrees and being more capable intellectually, frankly. I will discuss what I believe to be the implications of this in greater detail later.
In a more existential light all of us are capable of grasping the reality that a degree is just a slip of paper. This slip of paper that is supposed to represent an intellectual accomplishment, but we all know that in the modern world it really represents little more then a willingness to do the work neccesary to recieve a diploma. In essence we know that a diploma does not automatically make a person intelligent, knowledgeable, or in any intellectual way superior to another that does not posses a degree. By this same token we also know that when two people apply for a job a degree does not automatically make the person with the degree a better candidate. A degree is, in the modern world, a sort of illusion of untested credibility.
Both of these statements are more or less true, they break down only when you begin to consider specific cases. By taking into consideration the two lights together, and considering them rationally, one has to admit that gaining a degree is probably a good idea whatever your interests are. On some level it doesn't matter if its total bunk and "academia lives in stoopid ivry towerz" and such, because you can choose to get a degree and live a practical life. If you are capable of getting one, you would be a fool not too, if only for the purposes of making your life easier.
Now, whether or not its right that a degree has such importance... thats another discussion, one that I would voraciously take part in, if someone decided they wanted too.
But in awnser to the question... "Is a degree important?"
The awnser is yes and no, but with alot more practical (useful) evidence on the side of yes.
A little bit of opinion, however, from yours truly...
In MY judgements of people, I never take into account a degree. I think degrees in this day and age are a dime a dozen, and represent really very little. What I respect infinitely more is knowledge. Its important to remember that a person with or without a degree can also be a person with or without a vast amount of knowledge. I prefer to judge people based on this criteria, rather then that of a degree.
I personally am taking a year off of school to work as a canvasser for grass roots campaigning, before returning to school to continue on the path twords a PHD in Philosophy.
This means of course that by the end of my schooling I will have proven myself exceedingly smart, so that I may walk proudly into the next stage of my life, being exceedingly broke.
Instead, I am going to do my best to make clear my opinion in general, and I may end up discussing this at some length, as a fair warning to all involved. I am then going to put my story as its written up, in the hopes that it will aid in making clear my meaning.
First, the caveat.
This doesn't apply to every sort of degree, particularly those involving technical knowledge.
To really hit the bottom of this arguement persay we need to first shine two different lights on a degree. The practical light and the, for the purposes of this arguement, existential light. Note: I use existential only because I'm having trouble finding another word I like more.
In a practical sense a degree is completely and totally useful, ergo important. To deny this is to deny gravity, frankly. The numbers are in, you can't fight them. A person with a degree is more likely to generate a higher income, gain the respect of people and of companies, and in general have an easier life. There is also a correlation between having degrees and being more capable intellectually, frankly. I will discuss what I believe to be the implications of this in greater detail later.
In a more existential light all of us are capable of grasping the reality that a degree is just a slip of paper. This slip of paper that is supposed to represent an intellectual accomplishment, but we all know that in the modern world it really represents little more then a willingness to do the work neccesary to recieve a diploma. In essence we know that a diploma does not automatically make a person intelligent, knowledgeable, or in any intellectual way superior to another that does not posses a degree. By this same token we also know that when two people apply for a job a degree does not automatically make the person with the degree a better candidate. A degree is, in the modern world, a sort of illusion of untested credibility.
Both of these statements are more or less true, they break down only when you begin to consider specific cases. By taking into consideration the two lights together, and considering them rationally, one has to admit that gaining a degree is probably a good idea whatever your interests are. On some level it doesn't matter if its total bunk and "academia lives in stoopid ivry towerz" and such, because you can choose to get a degree and live a practical life. If you are capable of getting one, you would be a fool not too, if only for the purposes of making your life easier.
Now, whether or not its right that a degree has such importance... thats another discussion, one that I would voraciously take part in, if someone decided they wanted too.
But in awnser to the question... "Is a degree important?"
The awnser is yes and no, but with alot more practical (useful) evidence on the side of yes.
A little bit of opinion, however, from yours truly...
In MY judgements of people, I never take into account a degree. I think degrees in this day and age are a dime a dozen, and represent really very little. What I respect infinitely more is knowledge. Its important to remember that a person with or without a degree can also be a person with or without a vast amount of knowledge. I prefer to judge people based on this criteria, rather then that of a degree.
I personally am taking a year off of school to work as a canvasser for grass roots campaigning, before returning to school to continue on the path twords a PHD in Philosophy.
This means of course that by the end of my schooling I will have proven myself exceedingly smart, so that I may walk proudly into the next stage of my life, being exceedingly broke.