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On-Topic Does it really matter anymore...

Benvolio said:
Nice try, but no, the certificate merely certifies that the copy is a true copy of the document on file. A true copy of a forgery does not make the original any more valid.
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It doesn't make it any LESS valid either. As long as the State says the information is correct and validity of this copy of a copy doesn't matter.
 
frankfrank said:
We all know, of course, that Obama was born in 1961, back in an era when black people still had no civil rights whatsoever. Not even a hint was on the horizon; there had been very little progress other than the Woolworth's lunch counter sit-in in Greensboro. In some places they could be lynched by the county sheriff in front of cheering crowds, and the locals might even elevate that sheriff to State Representative or State Senator or Lieutenant Governor via the ballot box.

Let's pretend right now it's 1961; Barack Obama is born in Kenya. His parents realize that there's a high probability that their new son will eventually run for President, probably after sitting in Washington in another position. (Again, there were no civil rights yet, and nobody saw it coming.) So, just in case this blatantly obvious future (yeah, right) was to actually happen, the parent Obamas hired people to get the State of Hawai'i to alter their birth data to show their new son being born in the United States, while also making sure that the Honolulu newspapers reported him as being born there. It may have been the first case in the history of any U. S. state where the official state records were made to lie about a foreign-born person being instead born in the state (including the names of real doctors, a real hospital, etc.). It was entirely necessary for this newborn with NO CIVIL RIGHTS (and none coming anytime in the known future) to become President.

After all, don't people ALWAYS think ahead like this?

Yeah, that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO plausible.

I just figured out that Mikey is American, and trying to pass off as being born in Canada. Apparently he was born in Deadhorse, Alaska.
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Not to mention it is known where his father was at the time. So we have to also imagine that a nine months pregnant woman traveled all the way to a third world country to meet in laws she didn't know by herself.
 
Stardreamer said:
It doesn't make it any LESS valid either. As long as the State says the information is correct and validity of this copy of a copy doesn't matter.
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The state's certificate does not certify that the information is correct. I am not arguing thst it is false. I am explaining what the certifucate certifes and what it does not. It only certifies that the copy is an accurate copy of the thing on file which may be a fake.
 
Benvolio said:
The state's certificate does not certify that the information is correct. I am not arguing thst it is false. I am explaining what the certifucate certifes and what it does not. It only certifies that the copy is an accurate copy of the thing on file which may be a fake.
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I was not talking about the document they are analyzing, I'm talking about the statements of officials of the State of Hawaii. Both the Governor and the head of records department have validated the information.
 
Stardreamer said:
I was not talking about the document they are analyzing, I'm talking about the statements of officials of the State of Hawaii. Both the Governor and the head of records department have validated the information.
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What did they say and how would they know? Were they present at the birth?
 
So they did an analysis. The next step is to give their data and findings to two or three other outfits that are expert in such matters and see if their results are confirmed.
 
rareboy said:
It isn't simply errors.

It is their grotesque and immoral suppression of fact.

And we now have another four years ahead of us in my lifetime where all of us of good faith and conscience will need to prevent the destruction of truth by team Trump/Putin.
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You mean, like how Obama has had ALL of his records sealed as an immoral suppression of fact? :lol:
 
frankfrank said:
We all know, of course, that Obama was born in 1961, back in an era when black people still had no civil rights whatsoever. Not even a hint was on the horizon; there had been very little progress other than the Woolworth's lunch counter sit-in in Greensboro. In some places they could be lynched by the county sheriff in front of cheering crowds, and the locals might even elevate that sheriff to State Representative or State Senator or Lieutenant Governor via the ballot box.

Let's pretend right now it's 1961; Barack Obama is born in Kenya. His parents realize that there's a high probability that their new son will eventually run for President, probably after sitting in Washington in another position. (Again, there were no civil rights yet, and nobody saw it coming.) So, just in case this blatantly obvious future (yeah, right) was to actually happen, the parent Obamas hired people to get the State of Hawai'i to alter their birth data to show their new son being born in the United States, while also making sure that the Honolulu newspapers reported him as being born there. It may have been the first case in the history of any U. S. state where the official state records were made to lie about a foreign-born person being instead born in the state (including the names of real doctors, a real hospital, etc.). It was entirely necessary for this newborn with NO CIVIL RIGHTS (and none coming anytime in the known future) to become President.

After all, don't people ALWAYS think ahead like this?

Yeah, that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO plausible.

I just figured out that Mikey is American, and trying to pass off as being born in Canada. Apparently he was born in Deadhorse, Alaska.
Click to expand...

And that, my friend, is why America is flowing down the toilet as we speak. If more Americans actually gave a shit about what happens to/in/because of their country, you all wouldn't have to worry about TRUMP, but since you didn't, you do. Beat a dead horse? Ooh, look! Squirrel.
 
One notable thing about the democratisation of the media and opinion is that in certain respects, it does lower the bar.
 
Benvolio said:
What did they say and how would they know? Were they present at the birth?
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That they confirmed the official records of the State of Hawaii and that the information in the certified copies provided to Obama was correct. Those records were produced by the attending doctor and hospital staff who, yes, were present at the birth. That is the process used to confirm ANY birth record, you can dance around it with silly questions all you want but the State is the final authority and the State says it is correct.
 
Stardreamer said:
That they confirmed the official records of the State of Hawaii and that the information in the certified copies provided to Obama was correct. Those records were produced by the attending doctor and hospital staff who, yes, were present at the birth. That is the process used to confirm ANY birth record, you can dance around it with silly questions all you want but the State is the final authority and the State says it is correct.
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Sorry, the real question is whether the original purporting to be by the doctor is genuine. All the state has certified is that the copy is a correct copy. If the origibal is a fake the copy is certfied to be a accurate copy of the fake.
 
opinterph said:
Is it common practice for a US President to seal their records? (Quora)

​
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He referring the conspiracy theorists who claim that Obama has had all his early life records sealed somehow. He hasn't, they are more or less just as publically available as any other personal record is. They complain that private records should just be surrendered to them and then complain when the institutions involved point out that they are 'private' records that its some conspiracy.
 
Benvolio said:
Sorry, the real question is whether the original purporting to be by the doctor is genuine. All the state has certified is that the copy is a correct copy. If the origibal is a fake the copy is certfied to be a accurate copy of the fake.
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The point is the STATE is the one who says if the original is a fake or not. Nor is the state obligated to provide access to official records to every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to see them. The State says they have records proving that he was born in Hawaii in the state's official records and that information is correct. That is the final argument as far as the law and most sane people are concerned.

You can beat the horse all you want its still dead and not about to get up. And it is all pointless at this late date, as we are not going to impeach him at this point nor somehow erase the last eight years.
 
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