Does Obama have a lying problem?

[NickCole]

Instances of Obama caught lying are coming forth. I've posted about them in other threads but maybe it's time to address it head on.

Because here's another instance. And I'm beginning to think he's one of those liars who doesn't know he's lying when he lies. Some people become so accustomed to lying, altering a detail here and a detail there to make themselves seem bigger, more accomplished, more virtuous, more appealing, that after a while they don't even realize they're doing it.

And of course the press hasn't been calling him on it.

Senator Clinton said the following:

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I have put forth my extensive experience in foreign policy, you know, helping to support the peace process in Northern Ireland, negotiating to open borders so that refugees fleeing ethnic cleansing would be safe, going to Beijing and standing up for women’s rights as human rights and so much else. And every time the question about qualifications and credentials for commander in chief are raised, Senator Obama rightly points to the speech he gave in 2002. He’s to be commended for having given the speech. Many people gave speeches against the war then, and the fair comparison is he didn’t have responsibility, he didn’t have to vote; by 2004 he was saying that he basically agreed with the way George Bush was conducting the war. And when he came to the Senate, he and I have voted exactly the same. We have voted for the money to fund the war until relatively recently. So the fair comparison was when we both had responsibility, when it wasn’t just a speech but it was actually action, where is the difference? Where is the comparison that would in some way give a real credibility to the speech that he gave against the war?​

And Barack responded:

SEN. OBAMA: Let me just follow up. My objections to the war in Iraq were simply — not simply a speech. I was in the midst of a U.S. Senate campaign. It was a high-stakes campaign. I was one of the most vocal opponents of the war, and I was very specific as to why.​

Barack Obama was not in the midst of a U.S. Senate campaign in 2002. He was running for the Illinois State Senate.

And in addition to that, it wasn't risky to be against the war running for State Senator in that very liberal district. It may or may not have been pandering but it definitely wasn't risky.

There's a big difference between the US Senate and the Illinois State Senate, and it's hard to believe the man his supporters describe as "scary smart" doesn't know the difference. It's not that I think he made a conscious decision to lie in this instance, I don't think he even realized it. And that's worse because it means his lying may be out of his control.

The reason I think these are lies is because they're all the same kind. For instance, claiming he was running for the US Senate when it was really the Illinois State Senate, and implying he was taking a big risk speaking against the war; claiming he'd passed a bill protecting the public from nuclear radioactive leaks being kept secret when in fact his bill had been watered down to requesting volunteer disclosure and even that bill never passed ... these are exactly the same kinds of lies.

 

[Spensed]

I don't think any one cares about Obama spinning or making a mistake here and there.

The bigger issue is why Clinton's supporters don't encourage her to make some fundamental change in her own campaign rather than just trying to put her opponent in a bad light. Bill, or even Bush/Rove, would have come up with something more than getting testy by now.

Her focus and attitude seems to be all wrong. IMHO.

 

[bshane]

Yes he does NickCole. Yes he does.

 

[Twisted06]

dont forget to mention though obama said he wanted all the troops home from iraq when he wins. now his senior adviser for his campaign said today, he wants to bring one troop home at a time for 16 months and leave some forces for counter terrorism in iraq. and then tucker pointed out on his show that at the start of the primarys that wasnt his planned. and reminded obama supporters on his tv show that if they vote for obama there voting to keep troops in iraq. i thought that was intersting. sadly i dont have the proof unless i can find a youtube video. i know someones gonna come here next and call me a liar and say that was his plan from day one. im not really gonna call that lying but, he is doing what everyone says clinton is doing. saying whats best for him at that time, and not sticking to his words.

 

[NickCole]

Does Obama know when he's lying?

On March 4, 2007 he gave a prepared speech in Selma at Brown Chapel A.M.E Church. Here's part of that speech:

What happened in Selma, Alabama and Birmingham also stirred the conscience of the nation. It worried folks in the White House who said, "You know, we're battling Communism. How are we going to win hearts and minds all across the world? If right here in our own country, John, we're not observing the ideals set fort in our Constitution, we might be accused of being hypocrites." So the Kennedys decided we're going to do an air lift. We're going to go to Africa and start bringing young Africans over to this country and give them scholarships to study so they can learn what a wonderful country America is.​

This young man named Barack Obama got one of those tickets and came over to this country. He met this woman whose great great-great-great-grandfather had owned slaves; but she had a good idea there was some craziness going on because they looked at each other and they decided that we know that the world as it has been it might not be possible for us to get together and have a child. There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don't tell me I'm not coming home to Selma, Alabama.​

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070304-selma_voting_rights_march_commemoration/index.html​

But there's a problem with this. JFK arranged for the money for that airlift and those scholarships in 1959/60. Obama Sr came to the US in 1960. Barack Obama was born in 1961. Kennedy died in 1963. The March in Selma was in 1965.


So Barack Obama was born in 1961 because his father got to go to school in 1960 due to a program approved by Kennedy in response to Selma, which happened in 1965?

"There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don't tell me I'm not coming home to Selma, Alabama."

It sounds good but it isn't true. Just words?

 

[Sausy]

I don't think any one cares about Obama spinning or making a mistake here and there.

The bigger issue is why Clinton's supporters don't encourage her to make some fundamental change in her own campaign rather than just trying to put her opponent in a bad light. Bill, or even Bush/Rove, would have come up with something more than getting testy by now.

Her focus and attitude seems to be all wrong. IMHO.

A rare sighting indeed here....a Clinton supporter who makes a logical and thoughtful statement.Tearing down Obama doesn't build her up,with her negatives.Just try to get people to feel positive about what you'll do for the country,and you may get more people to actually like you.Hillary had always seemed the inevitable candidate,rather than the most desrving one before Obama-mania sparked across the land.Her support was always a mile wide and an inch deep,imperiled by anyone who could catch lightning in a bottle and speak to the aspirations of the American people.Until now,Obama has done it far better.

Don't tear down Obama but make people believe you can do better than him to reverse the damage the state of the nation...here and globally,under the Bush Administration.For such a supposed incredible political operation behind her,she has been done in by constant unsteadiness and miscalculation and unpreparedness....she has to rise above her flaws and the campaign's shortcomings,and I don't feel optimistic she has the awareness or inclination to do so.

 

[Twisted06]

A rare sighting indeed here....a Clinton supporter who makes a logical and thoughtful statement.Tearing down Obama doesn't build her up,with her negatives.Just try to get people to feel positive about what you'll do for the country,and you may get more people to actually like you.Hillary had always seemed the inevitable candidate,rather than the most desrving one before Obama-mania sparked across the land.Her support was always a mile wide and an inch deep,imperiled by anyone who could catch lightning in a bottle and speak to the aspirations of the American people.Until now,Obama has done it far better.

Don't tear down Obama but make people believe you can do better than him to reverse the damage the state of the nation...here and globally,under the Bush Administration.For such a supposed incredible political operation behind her,she has been done in by constant unsteadiness and miscalculation and unpreparedness....she has to rise above her flaws and the campaign's shortcomings,and I don't feel optimistic she has the awareness or inclination to do so.

i agree with that. and i dont think it should just be clinton either. lets face it mccain is tearing down obama, obama is tearing down mccain, and clinton is tearing down obama. i think hillary would do alot better hell any of them would do alot better if they actually focused on what mattered in the election. thats the real issues dont just say what u want and lie, and the types of people effected by it. i am a hillary supporter right now but i will admit thats her biggest down side is her trash talking.

 

[Twisted06]

thats what i ment like shes completely ignoring the party of wich she should be fighting with. if anything her and obama should not bother fighting each other, make it till the nominee is decided and then if its him, she should back him up and go after mccain. but in reality civilized politics would get me more interested then the whole throwing kitchen sink ordeal.

 

[MystikWizard]

^ Odd, I don't see her going after McCain; Obama sparingly did during the debates. Other than Obama, she seems to go after Dubya though! I agree with your post, but NOT attacking the other party seems like an impossible dream after seeing how the Democrats, especially her and her followers, go after each other. They make the Republicans look civilized---AND they have Limbaugh and Coulter and the friendly fucktards at Fox News and fiends!

She obviously goes after W, because she knows that saying George Bush's name alone sparks emotion and anger with the voters. The funny thing is I don't know if anyone truly buys that there is any bad feelings between her and George W, like she may want you to believe.

Hell, George Bush has practically endorsed Hillary for President. Furthermore, we know the Bush's and the Clinton's are very close. Look at how close Bill and Bush, Sr. have become over the years. These 3 families are virtually in bed with each other, no matter how much Hillary tries to make the voters think otherwise.

 

[noah617]

I know this is asking a lot of you, but how about before you accuse a guy of lying you include a more accurate quote. Like by including this paragraph that came before:

Yet something happened back here in Selma, Alabama. Something happened in Birmingham that sent out what Bobby Kennedy called, “Ripples of hope all around the world.” Something happened when a bunch of women decided they were going to walk instead of ride the bus after a long day of doing somebody else's laundry, looking after somebody else's children. When men who had PhD’s decided that's enough and we’re going to stand up for our dignity.

The civil rights movement didn't begin and end with the march. The bus boycott he's referencing here was in the 1950's.

 

[Orlandude]

Give it up NickCole. It's so transparent and bogus. Please! Do you honestly expect anyone to believe this hogwash? Sounds like Fox News talking points. And maybe it is. Get real.

 

[fiorio]

Name a politician who don't lie.

 

[chance1]

There is NO question that Obama is getting a free pass from the media

it's really up to hillary to make the case

unfortunately her message gets fucked by her methods - which are perceived as nasty for lack of a better term

obama is the prince

he is the underdog (or he was)

he is a black man - 46 years old - it's a fuckin miracle - imagine to elect the guy and erase all past sins (slavery, lynchings +)

so ironic that a black man, who many would suggest would be the victim of racism - instead is the benefactor

very interesting

he is teflon right now

nothing sticks

he and his campaign r doing a marvelous job

and the media is on the take

they have stake in this game

must be so frustrating for hillary

but she/her campaign r making it worse

and she's running out of time

 

[tbonez]

Why am I not at all surprised. What obviously contrived pettiness. How about some clear, concise indisputable illustrations of lies:

Claiming there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when you knew that there were none, now THAT would be a lie. Intentionally insinuating connections between the government of Saddam Husain and the attacks of September 11 would be a bald faced lie. Lying to the American people about an illegal war with a totally misrepresented agenda, hegemony... Now that would be a clangour of a lie. Claiming Ronald Regan was responsible for the end of the cold war and the fall of the Berlin Wall, not a lie...Just a moron speaking who didn't know a fact from a fart.

Even Bush Senior knew that invading Iraq and overthrowing Saddam Hussein was an illegal foray into an irretraceable quagmire of death, debt and another unwinnable war waged against a civilian population. Even he couldn't tell a lie of that calibre with a straight face...So he told the truth.

Besides, even if Obama were a pathological liar it shouldn't disqualify him from being President of the United States...I sure didn't keep the American people from electing Bush to two terms in the highest office in your land. Clinton was known to fib if memory serves 'I did not have sex with that woman' was it? Two terms for a liar seems to be the American way of late.

Massive debt, a currency that's devalued horrifically against the Euro and Canadian dollar to name but a few, stagflation, recession, manufacturing industry collapse, record numbers of Americans incarcerated, thousands of dead American soldiers...tens of thousands of dead civilians, crumbling infrastructure a total melt down of international prestige...And NickCole is croaking about a candidate who made a few minor misspeaks?? You do worse that Barak Obama, you could elect a lying Republican like McCain, Bush junior or Nixon. Now that would be pure folly.

 

[Kulindahr]

"There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don't tell me I'm not coming home to Selma, Alabama."

It sounds good but it isn't true. Just words?

A fair question.

Maybe he's telling it the way he got it from his parents?
Maybe it's thematic treatment?

E-mail him and ask.

 

[Kulindahr]

Obama was 4 years old... he should've known better! What desperate nonsense, Nick...

He isn't 4 years old now, however, so if he's meaning this as a literal sequential account, there's a problem.

 

[tbonez]

Name a politician who don't lie.

Actually the current Prime Minister of Canada has a pretty good record of honesty and integrity. That's not to say he only speaks the absolute truth or is always forthcoming with the facts, he just doesn't seem to intentionally misrepresent the truth aka actually 'lying'. BTW I'm not personally a fan of the man for many reasons... but he seems to be out best, brightest option at this point in time and a good compromise.

Gordon Brown also seems a relatively honest bloke, though I'm no expert on UK politics.

Many major players on the international political scene are/were brutally honest and forthright...Nelson Mandela, Kofi Annan come to mind. Former Irish President Mary Robinson was a model of ethics and now works for meaningful change through the Ethical Globalization Initiative.

Benazir Bhutto ironically is now somewhat idolized despite her earlier reputation as a crooked and dishonest politician who was twice forced from office over very real corruption allegations.

 

[Twisted06]

im not sure but i think the person ment a usa politican lol

 

[Kulindahr]

I know this is asking a lot of you, but how about before you accuse a guy of lying you include a more accurate quote. Like by including this paragraph that came before:

The civil rights movement didn't begin and end with the march. The bus boycott he's referencing here was in the 1950's.

Oh, come on -- this is politics; we're allowed to pick our 'facts'.






Right?

 

[Kulindahr]

Name a politician who don't lie.

I thought lying was part of the definition of "politician", which used to be spelled "polietician".