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Doesn't it seem like society favors women....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jersey Domino
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Alpha1851, I've always respected your opinion but I have to ask. Why wouldn't that be a plus?

Save me b/c it's your job (cops, detectives...not men). Save me b/c you care about humanity. Save me b/c you love me. Not b/c I'm skinny w/ big boobs and a pretty face. Not b/c you can jack off to my "missing" poster. Not b/c the media can make a sob story about the pretty girl who was brutally raped and murdered (which of course incl speculation of every man I ever screwed. That'll be a four part special).

You know, in a lot of those instances, the woman's behavior is ripped apart. Yes, folks were concerned about Natalie Holloway, but remember what was said about her? She was a young girl (straight out of high school), who was out w/ a guy she didn't know well. She was drunk and had sex w/ Joran. She was out of control. Don't you remember all the clips on CNN where people gave their own opinion about it? That girl shouldn't have gotten drunk. That girl shouldn't have gone off w/ a guy. In other words, pure, chaste, well behaved girls, stay out of trouble.

I don't think most people are after special treatment, we're just interested in equality. Gay, straight, black, white, Jew, atheist, male, female, whatever. We want to be treated as an entire person, not stereotyped for one characteristic. We want to be treated w/ respect.

I can admit when some things are skewed in my favor (prison sentences for instance), but favoring women b/c men think they're weaker, or b/c women are fuck worthy, well, that's nothing to celebrate. I have a brain you know. I have skills and talents. I love life, I'm thankful for each day that I have, but if all I'm worth is a good cum, then leave me where I'm at.
 
As is the prostate. Just part of your genetics. Prostate cancer is still serious. Are breasts a disease? Well, it's annoying when men remark about them all the time or stare at them or grab them, but no, they're not a disease.

Look, there are double standards all the way around. You seem to prefer the ones that favor me, I prefer the ones that favor you. Different personalities maybe? Or, maybe the grass just seems greener on the other side.

Alpha, I agree with you about there being double standards all around. Each gender will have a list of annoyances, some more or less serious. I'll go along with you on getting rid of every one of them and we'll all live better for it. The bottom line is, men still die younger, and society is oblivious to that which I will get to below. How much is an extra 5 years of life worth to you on your paycheque? Most people would pay hundreds of thousands for those years, if they had the money.

I looked at your profile before I posted to get a clearer picture of where you were coming from. Since it's pretty empty I figured you were riffing off what a few others have said about the US draft system. As you're not, I don't see what you're complaining about. Canadians service employs both men and women, and if you aren't required to be drafted, it's your own choice to serve. If I'm mistaken about it being your own choice to serve, explain why, because I can't find the information online.

The burden of war isn't equally split because of mysogeny. It isn't so much "We care about women - more -" so much as "Women are weak, they can't take it". That's not caring, that's condescension. If you want equality in that field, help work against mysogeny and more women will probably volunteer for service.

Look, when I said a shorter lifespan is due to biology and genetics, I also included the word - lifestyle -. That makes a lot of difference on how long someone lives, especially if the men in your family are prone to specific things. Unfortunately, you can not change your genes. Rail all you want against the unfairness of life, but changing your genes isn't going to happen and there's nothing complaining will do about it. It isn't as if groups of men are dying from an unknown disease that people are shoving under the rug. We all know what it is. It's called aging. You're born, you get older, you die. Not only is when you're going to die - not - set in stone, it's different for different groups of people. That 'five years difference' was an average of everyone.

As for breasts, they're are a name for a body part and men have them as well. Older men should also have breast exams for health. If you're asking me if breasts are a disease in all seriousness, you need to not type any more 'rhetorical' questions and go look in a dictionary under the definition of 'disease'. As for breast - cancer -, it isn't the breast that's the problem, it's a group of malignant cells reproducing that has a good chance of endangering a life. If you can't get rid of it, the whole thing has to go. Any honest questions? And if you can't tell the difference between aging and a disease, I'm sorry, but I can't help you.

Misogyny? How about men sit out the next two world wars and let women fight them? Lots of living people are still recovering from the loss of men in our grandparent's generation.

Men and women each have a genome and my point was if heart disease runs in the family, it affects your family whether you are male or female. It seemed like you were trying to sweep men's shorter lifespan under the genetic carpet. I know about breast cancer in men. I only mention breasts because while men and women both have them, the incidence of disease is dramatically different given the difference in interaction between hormones and breast tissue in men vs. women. Firstly that difference is a function of our operating genes. Secondly, nobody expects women with breast cancer to "just suck it up because that's how their genes work." To the degree to which men's lifespans are shortened by genetics, I expect something to be done about it. Yours is a classic example of indifference towards men in suggesting that is just how men age.

Now let's talk lifestyle. The lifestyle used to be for women to promise to obey their husbands as part of their wedding vows. Women used to willingly say that! Lifestyles change, however, hopefully for the better. At the moment, men are socially encouraged to accept the kind of lifestyle that allows them to be exploited in other ways for the "betterment" of society, which is no less awful than expecting women to obey their husbands. One of those socially engineered choices is military service. If anyone wants to bring up misogynist imagery in the media, how about the warped images of men, who are supposed to be brave robot protectors with no regard for their own lives.

Feminism has had 80 years to open up new pathways for women, but it hasn't done much of anything for men's options, except maybe indirectly. The benefits have not flowed both ways. We still need a few decades of masculism before equality will be shared...well...equally!
 
Misogyny? How about men sit out the next two world wars and let women fight them? Lots of living people are still recovering from the loss of men in our grandparent's generation.

Men and women each have a genome and my point was if heart disease runs in the family, it affects your family whether you are male or female. It seemed like you were trying to sweep men's shorter lifespan under the genetic carpet. I know about breast cancer in men. I only mention breasts because while men and women both have them, the incidence of disease is dramatically different given the difference in interaction between hormones and breast tissue in men vs. women. Firstly that difference is a function of our operating genes. Secondly, nobody expects women with breast cancer to "just suck it up because that's how their genes work." To the degree to which men's lifespans are shortened by genetics, I expect something to be done about it. Yours is a classic example of indifference towards men in suggesting that is just how men age.

Now let's talk lifestyle. The lifestyle used to be for women to promise to obey their husbands as part of their wedding vows. Women used to willingly say that! Lifestyles change, however, hopefully for the better. At the moment, men are socially encouraged to accept the kind of lifestyle that allows them to be exploited in other ways for the "betterment" of society, which is no less awful than expecting women to obey their husbands. One of those socially engineered choices is military service. If anyone wants to bring up misogynist imagery in the media, how about the warped images of men, who are supposed to be brave robot protectors with no regard for their own lives.

Feminism has had 80 years to open up new pathways for women, but it hasn't done much of anything for men's options, except maybe indirectly. The benefits have not flowed both ways. We still need a few decades of masculism before equality will be shared...well...equally!

Yeah, misogeny. It's alive, well, and unfortunately thriving. Used to be in the wedding vows? To the best of my knowledge, it's still there, unless you change your vows or write your own. For war, well, you might very well ask who's started the last couple thousand years of war, and what they were fighting over. Women were, and often still are, considered a spoil in war. Rich, politically affluent men for the most part start wars. Not that I think women would be kinder or gentler in office, we'd most likely have the same amount of war. You want people do die in equal numbers, get rid of mysogeny. Few women are going to join up when they have to prove themselves twice as hard to every man they interact with and still come up in relations with a shorter stick, just isn't worth the effort. They're not going to join when specific jobs are roundly denied and they don't get the good sign-on bonuses either.

For lifestyle - no, all diseases don't affect you the same whether you're male or female if it runs in your family. They're not cookie cutouts, sex and hormones make a difference as well. It really depends on the disease. My point was that men are getting treatment for the diseases they do have, say, heart disease (which women have as well (well, treatment unless they're poor or have no insurance, but that's a widespread problem with everyone, unfortunately) so if people on both sides of a rather ridiculuous 'divide' are getting treatment for ailments (and if it runs in the family, there's a better chance you know to look out for it, even if it doesn't tend to run in the men or women in your family) then it isn't going to affect longevity -discrepancy- one damn bit, since both 'sides' are already getting treatment. If both sides are getting treatment, then no, men are still stuck with that gap. Which is why, again, I said it's pretty useless to rail against genetics. And for future reference, by lifestyle I meant illness, eating habits, drugs (both prescription and non), surgery, exercise, stress, and other things I'm most likely forgetting. Having a woman chained to the home as an example of a lifestyle choice is disingenuous since I was talking about free range actions. Women chained to the home in history, no choice involved. Had severe trouble owning property, getting jobs, pay rates (and look, that one is still there) et cetera. Tell me, how do you 'choose' if the - only - other prospect was no roof, no food, constant derision from everyone and most likely had children you were expected to care for at a young age? It's not as if they paid enough most times for you to even rent a place. "Women used to willingly say that!" is ridiculous. There wasn't a will for the longest time to say it with.

Feminism wa/is supposed to be an equality movement. There's shitty feminists like there's shitty everything else. There's also many, many strains of feminism and intersections (and other movements with the same kinds of goals that - aren't - called feminism. Womanism, for example, which from the little I've read about it seems much better at addressing issues) and several different waves. You might be interested to know the traditional feminism is often sneered at by other branches because all it kept in mind was affluent white women, which is what you've been referencing in your posts, dunno if you realize it. You notice that damn near - all - those missing women that you complain about hogging the media attention are all able bodied and white? From good homes, or at least not the dumps I grew up in? Disabilities, race, poverty, age, feminism had/has a hard time incorperating those, as if you can separate them in a human being. When you say 'things have gotten better!' I don't know whether to bang by head, keep typing, or just say fuck it with this thread and move on. Because for people with disabilities, people of color, the very young, the very old, poor people - Feminism hasn't made things anywhere near as 'better' because the biases are in the movements themselves. So - some - women almost have equality. Not do, but almost. Because if they - did -, I can garauntee that the things your complaining about wouldn't be an issue, at least not for you, unless you have intersections I'm aware of, which is entirely possible. People don't 'favor' other people that they see as equals.

As for masculism, the title always sucked. The feminist movement (on a macro scale) has a nasty habit of believing all things feminine aren't as valuable as masculine pursuits, especially considering the rest of the world doesn't consider them as valuable, either. Setting up for a fall calling it masculism, if for no other reason that masculinity isn't what you want to shore up and that's what the word brings to mind. You're complaining about the restraints of masculinity, calling it something that immediately brings to mind He-man doesn't bode well. Unfortunately Men's Right's Activists is already taken - the great majority that I've seen suck, not sure the term can be reclaimed. They complain about things that're caused by misogeny while claiming 'women have it better'. Still haven't figured out why objectification and condescension are better, but eh. Better luck focusing on what - directly - harms men if you want to get a nice rolling movement going. The idea that showing any emotions other than aggression is a horrible flaw, the Hero! complex so damn many are encouraged towards, the rife objectification men are demanded to participate in, the utter ban on femininity, male on male violence (along with female on male violence. Feminism has the same problem, seems like female on female violence is often ignored when it comes to intersections), child custody issues (though I don't know much about them, I don't have children. Child custody and adoption are a mess all around for a lot of groups), lack of domestic abuse support (which is a problem), really the entire concept of what 'Real Men' are, since it all falls into that anyway.

But if people are going to continue to claim women have it better, then no, it's not going to get off the ground since people aren't actually focusing on issues men face. They're just complaining about the backlash of mysogeny. Which yes, does hurt men, but since equality isn't here yet, let alone for people with multiple intersections in life, the idea that the backlash of mysogeny encompasses anywhere near all of men's actual problems is a bit null and void.
 
Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised no one brought up the judicial system's bias when it comes to domestic cases such as divorce, and child custody battles. I realize that U.S. divorce laws, for obvious reasons, will favor the lesser-earner (which more oft than not just happens to be the wife) but even on top of that exists a long-standing partiality that doesn't just seem to, but actually does favor women.

Not that any of it's of much consequence to me personally; I'd never be foolish enough to marry a man let alone a woman. To quote Mel Gibson as William Wallace in Braveheart... "FREEEDOM!"

Eh, I did mention custody battles along with adoption, but single people of any gender aren't likely to be able to adopt, adoption agencies frown on anything that isn't married and hetero. With custody they also take into account who takes care of the children most often (ie, who's stuck home with them babysitting, or who's with them the most when both parents have full time jobs, not who would - rather - be with them). Who tends to be stuck with 'em in a relationship is women, because when you have a relationship with kids, every dime counts and that higher earning for men influences whether there's food on the table. I think it boils down to 'who has the better (in terms of pay) jobs and who gets stuck home' when kids need a babysitter. Society sucks =/ I do think there's a bit of bias in custody cases, since people are apt to view women as more nurturing (despite that not actually being the case, ime). I'm not sure about the logistics of joint custody, though. In theory it's a grand idea, and sometimes is in practice. But often parents play kids off of each other and roundly indult and degrade their spouse in front of their kids' hearing, and that isn't good for the kids. Booting a parent out of their kids' life isn't fair either, though, when the kid actually wants them involved. Then again, I got stuck living with my mother when I didn't want to in the least. I'd rather joint custody actually be joint custody, though, not just seeing 'em every other weekend. That goes for either parent, and I'd rather the kid actually be involved in the decision. That said, if the guy isn't around much (for whatever reason) it would be easier on the kids to work their way up to spending time with a parent you hardly know. Start out with weekends, add a few days here and there on a schedule, pretty soon you're up to actual joint custody with equal time with both parents. Assuming, of course, both parents live in the same area.
 
As for breast cancer, that's a disease. Are you calling your genetics and lifestyle a disease? Yes? No? Bueller?

LMAO! Breasts are a disease? Where and who taught you that?


;)

No, Elvin, that was my point. Breasts are no more a disease than is being male. But genetics drive the biology of women in conjunction with their lifestyle to create a risk of breast cancer that shortens the life span of women. Men's lifespan is shortened by a similar confluence of factors. Yet no one blames women for being female and having cancer-prone breasts.

It is not acceptable to say "Suck it up. Early death is the risk of being male" any more than saying "Oh well, I guess you'll just get breast cancer." But they do say that to men, and the bottom line difference is a number of years of life that men lose because of society's indifference.
 
Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised no one brought up the judicial system's bias when it comes to domestic cases such as divorce, and child custody battles.

I realize that U.S. divorce laws, for obvious reasons, will favor the lesser-earner (which more oft than not just happens to be the wife) but even on top of that exists a long-standing partiality that doesn't just seem to, but actually does favor women.

In my state at least, it's very rare for a father to seek full custody of the child. Additionally, there are plenty of dead beat fathers out there who don't pay child support. Does that matter? Well, not nec. But, I'm not certain how you can claim bias when there isn't a even number of fathers who fight for custody as their are mothers. Not many want to be single Dads. I admit that sentences are lighter and a woman is less likely to receive the death penalty.

Bankside, I'll say it again. No one is forced to join the military right now. Those men signed up at their own free will. Women join too and they die too. Please stop acting as though females fail to contribute. And again, we aren't allowed to take the same jobs in the military which pay more. Women didn't create those rules. That's not equality! Surely you can see that.

Prostate cancer awareness is just as popular here as is breast cancer awareness. Maybe it's not the same in Canada. It's Prostate cancer awareness month, there's a lot going on in terms of education, free health exams, and fundraising. Eradicating and preventing any cancer or any disease is important I think.

Regarding the five years issue, what would it take to make you feel better? Do both males and females need to average the exact same life span for you to be happy? You compared the 5 yrs. to my paycheck (our lack of equal pay for women). Well, no, those 5 yrs. wouldn't make it up since both men and women are usually retired at that time. I shouldn't have to work 5 additional yrs. so I can catch up in equal pay to a man.

Again, maybe we just value different things. I'm definitely in favor of full equality and it's something I fight for, but no, women don't have it made in our society.
 
Save me b/c it's your job (cops, detectives...not men). Save me b/c you care about humanity. Save me b/c you love me. Not b/c I'm skinny w/ big boobs and a pretty face. Not b/c you can jack off to my "missing" poster. Not b/c the media can make a sob story about the pretty girl who was brutally raped and murdered (which of course incl speculation of every man I ever screwed. That'll be a four part special).

You know, in a lot of those instances, the woman's behavior is ripped apart. Yes, folks were concerned about Natalie Holloway, but remember what was said about her? She was a young girl (straight out of high school), who was out w/ a guy she didn't know well. She was drunk and had sex w/ Joran. She was out of control. Don't you remember all the clips on CNN where people gave their own opinion about it? That girl shouldn't have gotten drunk. That girl shouldn't have gone off w/ a guy. In other words, pure, chaste, well behaved girls, stay out of trouble.

I don't think most people are after special treatment, we're just interested in equality. Gay, straight, black, white, Jew, atheist, male, female, whatever. We want to be treated as an entire person, not stereotyped for one characteristic. We want to be treated w/ respect.

I can admit when some things are skewed in my favor (prison sentences for instance), but favoring women b/c men think they're weaker, or b/c women are fuck worthy, well, that's nothing to celebrate. I have a brain you know. I have skills and talents. I love life, I'm thankful for each day that I have, but if all I'm worth is a good cum, then leave me where I'm at.

I agree with you that they often ripped apart the woman's behavior but if you ever read the comments section in SFgate.com when the subject is killings in Oakland and San Francisco Bayview/Hunter's Point areas, readers completely rip apart the victims, male and female alike, but they're especially ruthless to ethnic male victims, often calling them gang members or drug addicts.

As for the Holloway case I believe and still do that the anger was over the fact that this caucasion female victim was getting coverage when millions of women of color get ignored by the media. We all know that the media ignores male missing persons, especially if they're black or latino, but it's really insulting when our own women are often degraded by the mainstream press. Black, latino, and asian women rarely incite media coverage. Don't bring up the two women in North Korea; they're journalistic figures so I can't imagine them not getting any coverage.

I still also believe that being female in this country is way better than being a woman anywhere else in the world. For that matter, I also strongly believe that being gay or lesbian in this country is much more preferable than other countries, even some of the more progressive European nations.
 
I have to add that I agree that the coverage of Holloway's character was unfair. Regardless of what she was doing, she didn't deserve whatever what happened to her.

But Alpha1851, some of those critics were correct in the fact that underage teens in visiting another country shouldn't drink because judgment becomes impaired and they can end up doing something they'll seriously regret. I think that goes not just for young women but men as well. Of course stopping underage drinking is another issue and another thread.

I've talked this over with several female relatives and we all agree that this country in general favors men. But we also strongly believe, and a lot of co-workers who are black, latino, and asian agree with me, that this country is still a white male controlled society. And guess who's related to the white male?
 
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