DOJ appeals for immediate stay

[BostonPirate]

I no longer believe this.

Obama has indicated his opposition to gay marriage and has stated his religious conviction that homosexuality is wrong.

I honestly believe the guy is a closet homophobe. He does not support gay rights any more than GWB did.

that is such a bunch of crap

 

[rareboy]

Disappointing but not surprising.

It is all about playing to the fringe fundie base in the US.

 

[jackoroe]

Sorry, but this is the last straw. I'm declaring "Bullshit" on Obama's support of gay rights.

 

[SuperPsyze]

Wouldn't waiting the full 60 days just delay the process? And didn't we already expect the DOJ to do this anyway since they've done the same for all other court rulings that went through a similar process (to prevent 1 judge from defining federal law)? I understand people are angry, but it seems like there was no way to avoid this stay.

 

[rareboy]

^ This exactly.

DOJ has no other choice. It has to get to the supreme court sometime.

It would help though if the Prez said that while they are holding their noses while they do it, it is an inescapable part of the process.

But he's not, because everyone is afraid of the fundies.

 

[torontoboy92]

Does anyone know the status of ENDA?

 

[Kulindahr]

Disappointing but not surprising.

It is all about playing to the fringe fundie base in the US.

Are you connected to reality today?

You're saying OBAMA is playing to the "fringe fundie base"???

They're not going to. Let's put in JUB terms: They're going to keep the home page full of hot guys to keep you voting. But don't expect to actually ever have one.

Nice one.

Is that what's on he home page?

 

[Kulindahr]

Wouldn't waiting the full 60 days just delay the process? And didn't we already expect the DOJ to do this anyway since they've done the same for all other court rulings that went through a similar process (to prevent 1 judge from defining federal law)? I understand people are angry, but it seems like there was no way to avoid this stay.

Waiting the full sixty days would have basically given a sixty-day trial period. Since none of the horror stories predicted would be likely to happen, that would have been sixty days that could be pointed to for saying, "Your honor, the argument has been made that this will harm the military, but we've had sixty days and no harm."

No, we didn't expect the DoJ to appeal the decision against a stay; there was no reason to, and the panel who granted the stay had no rational foundation on which to do so. An appeal was almost guaranteed, because it keeps them employed, but the stay business is just a shit in the face to everyone who isn't a bigoted reactionary.

So the stay could easily have been avoided; it isn't essential to the process.

 

[hotatlboi]

Does anyone know the status of ENDA?

It's dead for this session. And if Republicans take the House it will be dead for at least 2 more years.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's dead for this session. And if Republicans take the House it will be dead for at least 2 more years.

I have a devious idea:

Democratic leadership should get their people in line, and then go to the Republicans and make this offer: we'll bring ENDA to the floor, and you add to it as an amendment the National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, and we'll pass the thing together.


Let's see how much they really believe in the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[hotatlboi]

I have a devious idea:

Democratic leadership should get their people in line, and then go to the Republicans and make this offer: we'll bring ENDA to the floor, and you add to it as an amendment the National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, and we'll pass the thing together.

Let's see how much they really believe in the right to keep and bear arms.

Sadly, passing it is not that important to the Dems, so that would never happen.

 

[rareboy]

Are you connected to reality today?

You're saying OBAMA is playing to the "fringe fundie base"???

Yup.

The Dems are so afraid of the possible swing votes and trying to look more like republicans than democrats when it comes to social policies that it is exactly who they are playing to.

 

[Lostlover]

I no longer believe this.

Obama has indicated his opposition to gay marriage and has stated his religious conviction that homosexuality is wrong.

I honestly believe the guy is a closet homophobe. He does not support gay rights any more than GWB did.

I also don't believe he's religious either. His mom was an avowed atheist. But in this fucked up country, you must profess to be a Christian to have any chance of being elected.

I also think he's too intelligent to not see the ugliness of discrimination towards African Americans and homosexuals as being one in the same issue.

And even if you believe the worst about him, do you think for a second that he'd go against his base and become an obstacle for equality? Obama has done a lot of half measures, but you can't say he's been conservative on any issue outside of the war in Afghanistan.

 

[Lostlover]

^ This exactly.

DOJ has no other choice. It has to get to the supreme court sometime.

It would help though if the Prez said that while they are holding their noses while they do it, it is an inescapable part of the process.

But he's not, because everyone is afraid of the fundies.

No shit. And the DoJ is not an extension of President Obama. Or it shouldn't be.

Anybody remember Roberto Gonzales' political firings of prosecutors based purely on party affiliations?

​

How hypocritical would it be if Obama leaned on the DoJ to do the same thing here? Now that would be even more Bush-like than people saying Obama has the same position on gay rights as President Bush.

Sounds like the unreasonable voices in this thread want Obama to Alberto Gonzales DADT.

 

[MoltenRock III]

LL, you've got to admit this President hasn't done anything to help gay people in the military. He could use his stop loss power to stop the DADT ejections, but hasn't. He has about 1/2 dozen avenues he could have already made the policy less stringent, but hasn't.

I see this President simply throwing his hands up in a few months when the votes aren't there in the Senate and go "well there aren't enough votes, bummer" while never fighting for it very much. (Much like we saw on the healthcare bill.)

 

[hotatlboi]

He has about 1/2 dozen avenues he could have already made the policy less stringent, but hasn't.

Well they did make it less stringent, they suspended investigations into people who were outed by others.

 

[Lostlover]

LL, you've got to admit this President hasn't done anything to help gay people in the military. He could use his stop loss power to stop the DADT ejections, but hasn't. He has about 1/2 dozen avenues he could have already made the policy less stringent, but hasn't.

I see this President simply throwing his hands up in a few months when the votes aren't there in the Senate and go "well there aren't enough votes, bummer" while never fighting for it very much. (Much like we saw on the healthcare bill.)

I'm on the same page as you. And I always lament around election time that there isn't a viable third option.

I'm extremely confident that DADT will be scrapped one way or another under Obama's watch. But as with all major issues, Obama drags his feet and compromises. I don't think he'll compromise here because most Americans support ending DADT.

If people really want someone to be mad at, it's Attorney General Eric holder IMO. But even Holder is off the hook according to a constitutional attorney that was on NPR because Obama's and probably Holder's interpretation of the DoJ's role is that it upholds laws and mandates all the time. Holder is not supposed to be an activist for either side at the DoJ.

 

[MercuryJones]

I see this President simply throwing his hands up in a few months when the votes aren't there in the Senate and go "well there aren't enough votes, bummer" while never fighting for it very much. (Much like we saw on the healthcare bill.)

I agree, and this point is why I don't chalk his activities up to homophobia. It's how he's done everything, even the things most important to him.

 

[MercuryJones]

But he's not, because everyone is afraid of the fundies.

And it's dumb, because there's nothing he can do to satisfy the fundies/teabaggers. They continue to hate him, and he disappoints everyone else, so no one is happy.

 

[Kulindahr]

No shit. And the DoJ is not an extension of President Obama. Or it shouldn't be.

Anybody remember Roberto Gonzales' political firings of prosecutors based purely on party affiliations?



How hypocritical would it be if Obama leaned on the DoJ to do the same thing here? Now that would be even more Bush-like than people saying Obama has the same position on gay rights as President Bush.

Sounds like the unreasonable voices in this thread want Obama to Alberto Gonzales DADT.

He could have told them to not ask for a stay, and just reference the original judge's quite sensible position that if there wasn't any evidence for the argument against a stay presented in the trial, then there wasn't any evidence period.

I'm on the same page as you. And I always lament around election time that there isn't a viable third option.

I'm extremely confident that DADT will be scrapped one way or another under Obama's watch. But as with all major issues, Obama drags his feet and compromises. I don't think he'll compromise here because most Americans support ending DADT.

If people really want someone to be mad at, it's Attorney General Eric holder IMO. But even Holder is off the hook according to a constitutional attorney that was on NPR because Obama's and probably Holder's interpretation of the DoJ's role is that it upholds laws and mandates all the time. Holder is not supposed to be an activist for either side at the DoJ.

We need another office -- call it the Advocate General -- whose job it is to fight every law that appears the least unconstitutional in terms of people's rights.

Holder was a bad choice to begin with, so I can be happy blaming him.
Except... the buck goes up to his boss.