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Dr. Keith Ablow says "environment determines sexual orientation"

By the time you start whiffling and waffling, those that seek to deny you your rights have rolled their eyes, and changed the channel. If you can't boil your point or view to sound bytes and one liners, you're toast.
[...]
*shrug* It is what it is.
So if someone tells a lie about me, I should respond by saying the opposite, whether it's true or not?

I've watched Fox News, and I've debated with its viewers. Saying the same thing over and over again does nothing. Answer a question with a different question and you might get the person outside of his position points where he has no answer written on the cuff of his shirt.

"You can change!"

"No, I can't."

"Yes, you can!"

[strike]"No, I can't"[/strike]"OK, so then why should I?"

"What?"

"Why should I change? What is to be gained?"

"It's wrong."

"How is it wrong?"

"The Bible says so."

"I don't believe that. What else have you got?"

"It's unnatural."

"It isn't. It exists in nature, in other animals, in preliterate societies. It's not unnatural."

"It's wrong!"

"Says you. I asked why should I change? I'm perfectly happy."

"You just think you're happy."

"No, I'm pretty sure I'm happy; you're the one who's not happy. You change."

Et cetera. That's how debates operate, you answer a question and ask a follow-up question. But debating on Fox isn't going to work, even if you do keep it short, because the editors make damned sure that only the position they wish to espouse, the position already comfortable to their audience, is going to come out on top. You notice on the few shows where they even pretend to have "balance," the liberal/left-leaning side is always presented in a poor light.

Look at the old stand-by Hannity and Colmes, where nothing that came out of Colmes' ugly clown mouth made any sense or sounded at all convincing, while Hannity's upstanding handsome-but-not-too-handsome Irish American face and authoritative newscaster's voice always carried every point. Eventually the simply threw out Colmes as a distraction from the main point.

On every "debate" they have on Fox News, there is a clear position from the outset, and the dissenters are carefully chosen for their stupidity and loopiness, and then shouted down if they say anything remotely useful or persuasive. It's a well-rehearsed side-show with about as much reality as professional wrestling.

Fox is what it is; but we don't have to be what it is. We shouldn't be what it is.

How do you defeat a demagogue? By becoming a louder demagogue? It won't work if your message isn't what people already want to believe. No, you have to do it by either slaughtering them all, or else by repeating the truth, with all its multifaceted and complicated facts, repeated and repeated and repeated. You also respond with questions. Why? Can you prove what you say? I can prove what I say. What else have you got?

There have always been demagogues, and they have always done damage. The only time that demagogues don't reign is when there are strong leaders with high ideals who will lead people away from them. We need to find those leaders and give them a forum... and not descend into the shouting match.
 
I wonder how he would explain twins with different sexuality.
Same environment, but different outcomes.

he go say it was cause it wenesday full moon
ans then millions folk go waste 100 years their life disussin it

haaaaaa

got love great cultures haaaa
 
I honestly don't know.

Dr. Ablow has sold his soul for his handsome paycheck from Fox, but that's not really the issue at hand...

Let me first respond by saying I'm a proud gay man and nothing is going to change that... Frankly speaking, I love cock - and that's not going to change.

But.

As for the concept of being "born that way", I'm not exactly sure.

This is because I was brought up in what couldn't have been a more "turned him gay" environment. A largely absent Father figure, (he preferred whiskey and drugs to that pesky parenting business... I grew up thinking it was normal to have a Dad that stayed in bed as long as the sun was out...)

Add to that a domineering Mother and her equally domineering female friends who introduced me to current fashions and Broadway cast recordings and considered Liza and Barbra as Gods... (It sounds so cliched, it's almost unbelievable, but trust me - when Babs was singing, it was a near religious event....)

Also factor in no older brothers or any other sort of "male influence" and ask yourself what were the odds that I might "turn out" gay.

I'm not saying I wasn't born that way to begin with, but it does give one pause.
 
I honestly don't know.

Dr. Ablow has sold his soul for his handsome paycheck from Fox, but that's not really the issue at hand...

Let me first respond by saying I'm a proud gay man and nothing is going to change that... Frankly speaking, I love cock - and that's not going to change.

But.

As for the concept of being "born that way", I'm not exactly sure.

This is because I was brought up in what couldn't have been a more "turned him gay" environment. A largely absent Father figure, (he preferred whiskey and drugs to that pesky parenting business... I grew up thinking it was normal to have a Dad that stayed in bed as long as the sun was out...)

Add to that a domineering Mother and her equally domineering female friends who introduced me to current fashions and Broadway cast recordings and considered Liza and Barbra as Gods... (It sounds so cliched, it's almost unbelievable, but trust me - when Babs was singing, it was a near religious event....)

Also factor in no older brothers or any other sort of "male influence" and ask yourself what were the odds that I might "turn out" gay.

I'm not saying I wasn't born that way to begin with, but it does give one pause.

theres always You before cultures mess up da ways ans got folk stickin labels all ova umselfs

so ya do know

ans cultures eggnogs twats
 
fa cultures where U is still property ans no idea or etc so on

shame on ya ans is not da property of bunch of toons think they is manage millions folk

even if countrys operate stills in 18th 17th 400 22 AD BC whateva

suck ma dick
 
I actually found his comments interesting... especially in his mitigated wording: "sometimes" and "can" and "perhaps might." And he does not say that orientation is environmental... he says that some sexual behavior can be traced to environmental factors.

Note that he never says that a person would otherwise be heterosexual; only that the person might have acted on desires differently if certain social and experiential circumstances had been different. Remember that in ancient and/or "uncivilized" societies, where homosexuality is encouraged, there will still be some who do not enjoy homosexual behavior as well as some who enjoy nothing else. There's that whole spectrum in between, an almost liquid state that is acted upon almost entirely by social expectation and experience.

The idea that orientation can be solely or even largely attributed to environment is not found in that article (except perhaps in the title, though not explicitly); though of course a person who thinks it is will not be dissuaded from that idea by this article.

Agreed on all counts. :=D:

I think we as the affected parties here should be a little more cautious about any instinctive knee-jerk anti response to anything we disagree with without first giving it fair hearing. I mean, in the beginning everyone knew, without a doubt, that the earth was flat...

Fact is, we don't know all that much about the nature of sexuality; just because we want to be thought of as not having been influenced in any way apart from the genetic does NOT make it so.

but considering his audience, he really ought to have been clearer.

Given the automatically opposing reaction this has got at JUB already, do you think it would have mattered?

-d-
 
BTW, I think it is entirely possible that Ablow or I'llblow or whatever his name was could have an anti-gay agenda. That doesn't prove that a few of his theories might be worth trying to prove.

If Sara Palin said the sun emitted energy from the fusion of hydrogen and that god told her to vote against equal marriage, she would be right about the sun and wrong about god & equality.
 
It amazes me how naive and willfully ignorant some homos are. Good lord! Do you really think this blowhard on Fox is really interested in scientific honesty? Fuck no! He has an agenda, and always had. His tirades against transgendered people show that he believes that one's gender can be chosen too. Why do you think this is JUBbers? Hmmmm? Use that brain.... why? So that homosexuality is a "choice" therefore you have no rights or expectation of "special rights" that str8 people don't have. Wake up!

This same asshat denounced Rutgers for offering students CoEd dorms after our fellow JUBBER, Tyler Clementi killed himself last year! :grrr:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/117121553.html
http://equalitymatters.org/emtv/201103020013


Dr. Ablow Launches Inaccurate, Transphobic Attack On J. Crew Advertisement

Ablow accused Chaz Bono of suffering from a “psychotic delusion” and compared transitioning to “bending reality to conform to a person’s psychosis”, which is utterly fucking false. His views have been debunked and derided by the American Psychological Association.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

http://www.isna.org/node/564

When Tim Pawlenty said the science was "in dispute” about whether being gay is genetic, that sure came as surprise to molecular biologist Dean Hamer.

The Advocate

This jerkoff's record of being hostile to the gay community goes on and on... how many more links would you like? :grrr:
 
100% excellent. (except the Nader part... :mad:)

It was the first presidential election I got to vote in; I was 18. I lived in Virginia, and I knew Gore wouldn't carry the state, and I remember hearing that if Nader got a certain percentage of the overall vote he would get federal matching funds the next time he ran. That was my reasoning. I looked back on the vote with regret though for a while. Now I'm not upset about it. I am very proud to have voted in every election available to me, local through federal, since I've been able to vote. Obama will be getting my vote in 2012 as the best man for the job. But I'm not too excited about it. It feels like a very practical choice.
 
for someone who enjoys getting sexually aroused with body parts that he wasn't born with and that the opposite sex feels so disgusted with,no!, i don't think that we the fags, have it that bad after all in the psychophysical department.And having to pretend that they belong sexually like homosexuals naturally do,sucks big time.Not to mention the grotesque inclination of being sexually aroused with body fluids and stinky odors coming off from god knows what sort of shit from within a women's body.You have to have a very... but very putrid mind to actually have the stomach to get pleasure with such an act of bestiality.This is the type of heterosexual men that whenever they have an argument with me they come out crying like babies,b/s they have never talked before with a real life heterophobe bully like me.
 
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