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Dutch tolerance has its limits

Homoerectus

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Hooray for the Labor Party. Tolerance must run both ways. If the Muslims seek tolerance then they must grant the same tolerance to others. Those who migrate to another country usually have specific reasons for soing so, either cultural or political. When they choose not to stay in their country and work for change, then they should be ready to assimilate into the culture of their new country. If their culture and opportunities are so great, then why did they leave?
 
Until Saudi Arabia build churches and other religious buildings in its own country, things will always get abit nasty.
 
I don't know if we're talking about the same filmmaker, and neither do I condone deaths, but no baiting. If you don't want violence, don't overtly and ignorantly criticize a culture you don't understand.

There's this documentary from the CBC or the BBC about Muslims in Europe and the Muslims were pretty iffy about having to apologize for actions committed by one member of their community.
 
I dunno about other countries but the concept of America is that you should be able to come here and celebrate your own culture, not just have to conform to ours, that's why they call it a melting pot. As long as their culture doesn't interfere with anyone else's well-being, I don't see why they'd have to assimilate.

i think there is an interference like veils, un-happy of where they are ...etc that is why assimilate is the way to go.
 
... Two weeks ago, the country's biggest left-wing political grouping, the Labor Party … issued a position paper …

Can you provide a link to the position paper referenced in the linked article? I would like to read it.
 
^^ best i could do so far is find the website of the Dutch Labour Party ...

I don't find it there (or anywhere else.) Seems strange that so many bloggers are using the same article you quoted and yet I can't find a single one that links to the original source document. :(
 
Hmm. It is possible that the document itself, titled “Divided past, shared future” has not yet been released. The PvdA certainly has not yet [officially] adopted it.
The memorandum was drawn up by PvdA chairwoman Lilianne Ploumen, indicating it is a document from the entire party leadership including PvdA leader Wouter Bos. The memorandum, entitled "Divided past, shared future,' will be presented to the PvdA members at a congress next March and then, if adopted, become the new PvdA policy. [Link]



I think your user title is clever and I laughed out loud.

I didn’t think anyone would notice. ;)

Oh, and see if you can get this translated: http://www.pvda.nl/renderer.do/menu.../220356702/pageId/200006510/instanceId/37907/ I think this is what you want anyway.

That link suggests the same general concept, but doesn’t reference the so-called “position paper.” To wit,
SummaryThe elastic Netherlands
The PvdA stand for an elastic Netherlands with a vital rule of law and full citizenship of all. Everyone must stick to the laws and the rules of our rule of law. By full citizenship - participate in the societies by learn, continue working and by nourishing and to protect the Dutch nationality. By identifying itself with each other, showing respect for freedom, democracy, equality of men and women and of homo’s and hetero’s, by carrying responsibility for this country and the future of our children together.
 
When the religions of the US came together in this fledgling country, how many killed people who spoke out against their ways? Serious question does anyone know?
 
I dunno about other countries but the concept of America is that you should be able to come here and celebrate your own culture, not just have to conform to ours, that's why they call it a melting pot. As long as their culture doesn't interfere with anyone else's well-being, I don't see why they'd have to assimilate.

If you study patterns of immigration to this country, you will find that until just before 1900, fully 90% of the people who came to the USA were from Europe, and mostly northern Europe at that.

They had different languages and different cultures, and in many cases, different religions, ie., Protestant and Roman Catholic and various subsets of both. That being said, in large measure, the immigrant generation saw to it that their children and grandchildren assimilated.

The so-called melting pot was more of a mixed European melting pot than anything else during the period prior to the turn of the last century.

The same was not true for easily identifiable groups, ie.; Hasidic Jews, whose manner of dress alone, tended to set them apart; Chinese immigrants who were more or less separated by a barrier of color; the Amish; and so on.

Many of the latter groups managed to settle in immigrant communities or enclaves and, for the most part, did not demand special treatment.

Muslim immigrants are a different story altogether. They are demanding to be treated differently in this country just as they are in Europe and the UK. The UK, in particular, has bent over backward to accommodate its Muslim population, but to no avail. They keep wanting more and more.

Many people think it's time to draw a line and say - if you want to be a citizen, learn the language and have some respect for our culture.

Borders, Language, and Culture are what define a country.
 
If you study patterns of immigration to this country, you will find that until just before 1900, fully 90% of the people who came to the USA were from Europe, and mostly northern Europe at that.

They had different languages and different cultures, and in many cases, different religions, ie., Protestant and Roman Catholic and various subsets of both. That being said, in large measure, the immigrant generation saw to it that their children and grandchildren assimilated.

The so-called melting pot was more of a mixed European melting pot than anything else during the period prior to the turn of the last century.

The same was not true for easily identifiable groups, ie.; Hasidic Jews, whose manner of dress alone, tended to set them apart; Chinese immigrants who were more or less separated by a barrier of color; the Amish; and so on.

Many of the latter groups managed to settle in immigrant communities or enclaves and, for the most part, did not demand special treatment.

Muslim immigrants are a different story altogether. They are demanding to be treated differently in this country just as they are in Europe and the UK. The UK, in particular, has bent over backward to accommodate its Muslim population, but to no avail. They keep wanting more and more.

Many people think it's time to draw a line and say - if you want to be a citizen, learn the language and have some respect for our culture.

Borders, Language, and Culture are what define a country.

maybe only the loud mouth extremists want more and more. The silent majority is just fine. (not sure).

Maybe introduce a law to punish extremists views.
 
Hooray for the Labor Party. Tolerance must run both ways. If the Muslims seek tolerance then they must grant the same tolerance to others. Those who migrate to another country usually have specific reasons for soing so, either cultural or political. When they choose not to stay in their country and work for change, then they should be ready to assimilate into the culture of their new country. If their culture and opportunities are so great, then why did they leave?

Well said.

I don't know if we're talking about the same filmmaker, and neither do I condone deaths, but no baiting. If you don't want violence, don't overtly and ignorantly criticize a culture you don't understand.

There's this documentary from the CBC or the BBC about Muslims in Europe and the Muslims were pretty iffy about having to apologize for actions committed by one member of their community.

Grown-ups can handle being baited.
That so many in the Middle East cannot says their culture is not an adult culture, but a childish one.
 
maybe only the loud mouth extremists want more and more. The silent majority is just fine. (not sure).

.

The majority of muslims in the usa are allegedly represented by CAIR - yet CAIR has never specifically condemned Muslim Terrorism, not even in the wake of 9/11.

They have made a few generic luke-warm denials, but they have yet to call a spade a spade.
 
When the religions of the US came together in this fledgling country, how many killed people who spoke out against their ways? Serious question does anyone know?

Acts of religious violence during the time of the Foundation of America were almost non-existent. America was not in the mood for it. To be sure, historians of American religion might cite aspects of religious culture which defined the revolutionary, separatist, often-low-church colonists from their imperialist, monarchist, loyalist, often-high-church opponents.
In subsequent decades religious violence sometimes stood out. The 1840's were a hard time to be Catholic in the States. The other topic of religious violence that Historians will definitely mention involves the Mormons, initially as sufferers and later, on at least one occasion, as inflictors. Over the generations America has seen religious violence on rare occasions, mostly on a person-to-person or small-group basis. Sometimes within fairly isolated communities. Sometimes in the odd-ball suburb or neighborhood. Probably every denomination has its own little stories.

But this is all to say that America has had far less religious violence in its history than Europe has had.

To be sure, if you are a Native American (and hence of a very distinct religious tradition) you might rightfully object that America has plenty of ultra-violent religious history to atone for.
 
Very interesting to read some views and opinions on Dutch politics and culture from across the big pond, when I normally only see our views on events in the US in the news paper.

As with most news paper articles, the Herald Tribune article is rather 'dense' written (dare I say populist) and leaves out quite a few details. Pim Fortuyn was murdered by a psychiatrict 'back to nature' fanatic, it had nothing to do with immigration or religion.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali left the Netherlands because she got into a political scandal when it was discovered she had lied about her origins and situation when applying for a staying permit when she came to the Netherlands. Actually the story got hugely complex when the question
was raised if she could still be a legal member of parliament if she was an illegal immigrant.

So there are lot of shades of grey. But please continue, interesting reading here. :-)
 
When the religions of the US came together in this fledgling country, how many killed people who spoke out against their ways? Serious question does anyone know?


The Mormon were chased from Missouri to Utah. A few were killed in the migration.
 
That's right I don;t buy the whole "Islam is peace" crap. My God they execute Gays and rape victims.

I don't buy that, either, but I wouldn't call it a religion of "hate" -- violence and intolerance, yes, but hardly hate.
Islam was fortunate in some periods to have leaders who rejected Mohammed's model of violence, robbery, and such, but they aren't a very accurate representation of the religion. OTOH, what some today have done to it is also not an accurate representation, when they go directly against a lot of things in the Koran.
 
I don't know if Arab nations execute gays and rape victims because of Islam. But if they do, I don't see how eace can be present in an environment of such hatred and spiritual confusion.

I agree that secular gov't is a must. But unfor these nationalist groups want evrything to be all about them and their precious nation. Nationalism is so ugly. What has happened in Holland is just another example of how nationalistic sentiment incites violence.

It's only a minority of Muslim nations that have the abominable shari'a laws. One of the goals of radical Islamism is to change that, to make all those nations Taliban-like states, and then expand. They fully expect to take Europe in a generation or two, and so far Europe is blithely going with their program.
 
. They fully expect to take Europe in a generation or two, and so far Europe is blithely going with their program.

Sad, but true. And it's going to happen here in the US also - thanks to political correctness, complacency and the liberal bedwetters.
 
They fully expect to take Europe in a generation or two, and so far Europe is blithely going with their program.

I'm so scared of this coming to fruition. :( As you have said, nothnig is beign done to stop it either... :/
 
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