Edmonton Pride parade held hostage

[fabulouslyghetto]

Exactly.

Why tf do you think I’m arguing with you? Wait. I know this one. Because I’m white and would rather watch black people die at the hands of a racist cop I apparently see eye to eye with as long as I can still get my latté. And NOT because as one political human to another I think your strategy is all wrong and will just end up getting more people you care about killed. Yeah definitely not that last bit.

Nobody died in this protest, not even a papercut and it's only by luck that nobody died in the WN or Stonewall riots because, again, they were uber violent. Still waiting on someone to call them terrorists....

The point is, throughout history, "Pwetty pwetty pwease can you be nice to us" hasn't gotten results. We had an entire fucking war over whether or not it's ok to own human beings [and the laundry list of unimaginable horrific practices that went along with it-- auctions, breeding, sexual abuse, torture, pffffffft at workers' rights] so this idea that we can achieve equal treatment if we just sit down calmly and state our goals is not only silly, it's historically inaccurate, when did that ever work? You'ere talking to an American, the only reason I'm here is because the forefathers of my country had to go to war for their independence. We tried peace and it didn't work, because it never has and it never will, you cannot beat an enemy armed with weapons with hugs and a polite convo over tea. I wish the fuck you could. Remember black lives matter? They tried to peacefully call attention to police brutality and were labeled anti-white terrorists. Never in history have whites, en masse, supported a black protest no matter how peaceful, respectful or well-organized, you have no idea how deeply I wish your method would work but I won't even ask you to name an incident where it did because we both know it's not effective. Gosh, I could name examples for days. What did MLK's peaceful protest get him? Labeled a domestic terrorist and shot for his troubles. We can't win by being super duper nice to our murderers, and that's hypocritical given gay America's history of violent protest.

 

[bankside]

As some one born in new York I would like to point out that the reaso any where on earth has gay pride marches started at the Stone wall bar.

This problem where some Americans think history begins and ends with the US experience is not limited to Donald Trump. Gays have a much deeper history of advocacy and a wide, wide range of political strategies to choose from.
From wikipedia’s Half decent summary of our long history before one riot at a New York bar: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_social_movements?wprov=sfti1

The emerging currents of secular humanist thought which had inspired Bentham also informed the French Revolution, and when the newly formed National Constituent Assembly began drafting the policies and laws of the new republic in 1792, groups of militant "sodomite-citizens" in Paris petitioned the Assemblée nationale, the governing body of the French Revolution, for freedom and recognition.[17] In 1791, France became the first nation to decriminalize homosexuality, probably thanks in part to Jean Jacques Régis de Cambacérès, who was one of the authors of the Napoleonic Code. With the introduction of the Napoleonic Code in 1808, the Duchy of Warsaw also decriminalized homosexuality.[18

 

[mikey3000]

dictionary.com can tell you what racism is to avoid embarrassing yourself with a gross misuse of the word. I dunno how identifying this divide makes me racist, probably because it doesn't. And though there are black racists, I guess you can rest assured that they have zero political power to actually make your life even a tenth of a degree less comfortable. Must be nice.

Well, you can always, um.. go shopping.

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/dellwood-market-looting_n_6519186

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Well, you can always, um.. go shopping.

Are you trying to set me up? Only takes one well-to-do white person to think I'm up to no good, call police and WHAM I'm just another face on a t-shirt.

 

[bankside]

You'ere talking to an American, the only reason I'm here is because the forefathers of my country had to go to war for their independence. We tried peace and it didn't work, because it never has and it never will, you cannot beat an enemy armed with weapons with hugs and a polite convo over tea. I wish the fuck you could.

Okay yeah you had a war to decide if people could own people. Guess what? We didn’t.
You had a war to decide if you were allowed to have democratic government. We didn’t.
Your country is the tire fire where people think the first answer to every problem is to shoot it. This is a thread about Canada and what happened in a place where we usually keep a bit more perspective.

It’s funny for a country with a history of segregation, you’ve drank from the same American fountain about how militant conflict is the answer to every problem. Clue: It doesn’t work.

 

[mikey3000]

Jeez Fab you cry like it was America who invented the slave trade. Here's another lesson for ya..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Jeez Fab you cry like it was America who invented the slave trade. Here's another lesson for ya..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Thanks for insulting my intelligence but since I paid attention in school I'm well aware that slavery neither began nor ended with the trans-atlantic slave trade. But that wasn't even the point, which was that we had to go to war to end it, asking nicely didn't work then and it's not wokring now.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Okay yeah you had a war to decide if people could own people. Guess what? We didn’t.
You had a war to decide if you were allowed to have democratic government. We didn’t.
Your country is the tire fire where people think the first answer to every problem is to shoot it. This is a thread about Canada and what happened in a place where we usually keep a bit more perspective.

It’s funny for a country with a history of segregation, you’ve drank from the same American fountain about how militant conflict is the answer to every problem. Clue: It doesn’t work.

There was nothing militant about this protest. Did the protestors have guns and I ain't know it? People are talking like they came in cracking skulls and kicking testicles.

And "it didn't work" goes both ways, I can name a dozen polite requests for humanity or equality that were rejected, laughed at, et cet just as easily as you can dig up successful diplomacy stories. To pretend like you have the be-all, end-all solution to police brutality is just..... silly. It is not often that you can beat a violent monster with politeness, and comparing state-sanctioned murder to France passing a resolution decriminalizing homosexuality is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty. Were gay people being murdered by police? If not then I don't wanna hear two rips about it. Not because you're white, not because I have a bloodlust, but because lives are at stake so we need legit, realistic solutions.

 

[mikey3000]

Yes. We've had a thread on the murderer.

For several years, the Toronto lgbtq community tried to get the police to take the disappearance of a number of men seriously. The police botched it with indifference and inaction and by the time the killer, Bruce McArthur was caught, eight men were dead.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ller-bruce-mcarthur-property-search-1.4651731

So this year might not be their finest hour marching in uniform in the Toronto parade.

You forgot to mention that the serial murderer is also gay.

 

[bankside]

There was nothing militant about this protest. Did the protestors have guns and I ain't know it? People are talking like they came in cracking skulls and kicking testicles.

And "it didn't work" goes both ways, I can name a dozen polite requests for humanity or equality that were rejected, laughed at, et cet just as easily as you can dig up successful diplomacy stories. To pretend like you have the be-all, end-all solution to police brutality is just..... silly. It is not often that you can beat a violent monster with politeness, and comparing state-sanctioned murder to France passing a resolution decriminalizing homosexuality is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty. Were gay people being murdered by police? If not then I don't wanna hear two rips about it. Not because you're white, not because I have a bloodlust, but because lives are at stake so we need legit, realistic solutions.

You literally just said...

Oh ffs.

There was nothing militant about the three stupid old homophobic evangelicals at the side with their stupid placards that were too polite to even be funny like a classic Fred Phelps sign. Even the homophobes fucking got it. These asshole bullies just blockaded and intimidated people who are not perpetuating brutality, not approving of brutality, and doing something positive to insulate against it to a standstill. It was stupid ineffective bullshit. Not just ineffective, counterproductive.

edit oh and go read some history if you don’t see parallels or understand how many different kinds of oppression there are. I know you want that gold medal but at least check out the competition in the oppression olympics.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

You literally just said...

Oh ffs.

There was nothing militant about the three stupid old homophobic evangelicals at the side with their stupid placards that were too polite to even be funny like a classic Fred Phelps sign. Even the homophobes fucking got it. These asshole bullies just blockaded and intimidated people who are not perpetuating brutality, not approving of brutality, and doing something positive to insulate against it to a standstill. It was stupid ineffective bullshit. Not just ineffective, counterproductive.

edit oh and go read some history if you don’t see parallels or understand how many different kinds of oppression there are. I know you want that gold medal but at least check out the competition in the oppression olympics.

Prove your point. Go to the nearest police station and ask them to adopt some sort of anti-racism de-escalation training to stop the slaughter of minorities. Report back and let us know how well that goes.

 

[mikey3000]

If your communuty has a problem with the police, why aren't you protesting at your police headquarters then? Lets see how THAT turns out.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

If your communuty has a problem with the police, why aren't you protesting at your police headquarters then? Lets see how THAT turns out.

In the Pulse thread you referred to the victims, mostly brown, as brothers. Your tone in this thread makes that seem utterly disingenuous.

 

[bankside]

If your communuty has a problem with the police, why aren't you protesting at your police headquarters then? Lets see how THAT turns out.

You keep saying that, “your...” Do you mean “your community” as in “the city you happen to live in” or “your community” as in “a colour of people I don’t have to associate with because that’s ‘them’ not ‘us’.”

Prove your point. Go to the nearest police station and ask them to adopt some sort of anti-racism de-escalation training to stop the slaughter of minorities. Report back and let us know how well that goes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_Canada

We’ll stop the “slaughter” in Edmonton right after we find these “terrorists” you keep asking about yourself.

 

[mikey3000]

I say your as in your community. I have no pretense in one big happy community. The LGBTQ2SIWXYZ. Name shows that. Also I'm not into cultural appropriation. You have yours, she has hers and I have mine, what ever it may be (colour and or race and or sex and or gender and or education and or locale and or...) We can accept a community without having to be a part of it, no?

 

[bankside]

Btw, funny what comes up with google and “Edmonton police de-escalation”

First hit.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/gazette/de-escalation-training-police

Because these are the people who are like “Yes we take our responsibility seriously to find better ways to police vulnerable populations like those with mental illness. It’s part of our responsibility to all Edmontonians. Except brown ones, fuck ‘em.”

It just doesn’t ring true. So telling people That’s The Way It Is™ comes across as delusional. It doesn’t ring true, because for most officers it isn’t true. They believe in equality. People know it. So if there is a real problem with some officers to be solved, and if you scroll up you’ll see where I promised that there was, then it’s not going to get solved if everyone is too stunned busy trying to figure out why some angry group of bullies is lying about police. That’s the message these amateurs managed to weld into people’s heads.

 

[bankside]

I say your as in your community. I have no pretense in one big happy community. The LGBTQ2SIWXYZ. Name shows that. Also I'm not into cultural appropriation. You have yours, she has hers and I have mine, what ever it may be (colour and or race and or sex and or gender and or education and or locale and or...) We can accept a community without having to be a part of it, no?

The community that matters when we talk about human rights is “humans.”

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

been a while since i got to use these, just for you Mikey

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Don't get me wrong. I am not on the fence. I think there is a better way to deal with this, I just see their point.

I know what you mean. What I meant is that I also think there is a better way to deal with this, but I'm not sure which. But boycotts don't work. They never do.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Pro-white gay, not pro-gay. Pro-gay includes black and latino and i promise you, in case you hadn't already heard, police have a strenuous relationship with brown people. Of course you would feel safe with police presense, they aren't using your people for target practice, or planting toy guns on white people, or trumping up charges, or killing your 5 year olds during raids, or shooting 13 year old white boys for playing with toy guns, or beating you senseless, or planting drugs on you et cetera.

Since you seem to know me so well, I assume that with "your people" you mean Belgians of Lebanese grandparents living in Morocco with a half-Turkish, half-Persian spouse?