On-Topic Edward Snowden: NSA Whistleblower Revealed, Interview

[JayHawk]

That Bastard is still hanging out at a Moscow airport..Is he waiting on Funds to be wired? What's the Deal?

Putin is using him as a poker chip, what we aren't hearing is the key notes, Wikileaks is learning they are truly a spec of shit on the toilet paper of world affairs, and we will never truly know the things given up by the US to gain this turd. However, you can tell they are wheeling and dealing because Obama categorically tried to minimize Snowden as if he could care less if the guy was ever tried or caught. Honestly they should just let him live in fear in Ecuador. Our federal country clubs would be a holiday compared to a life looking over your shoulder in fucking Ecuador.

 

[T-Rexx]

That Bastard is still hanging out at a Moscow airport..Is he waiting on Funds to be wired? What's the Deal?

First of all, Snowden is not at the "airport." He is in a Russian prison. The Russians will not admit that because that would make them responsible for extraditing him to the USA, which they do not intend to do.

The Russians have seized and copied his hard drives and everything he was carrying. They are questioning him, possibly with "enhanced interrogation techniques."

They will release him to Ecuador when they are satisfied they have gotten everything they can. That may be several weeks.

 

[JayHawk]

First of all, Snowden is not at the "airport." He is in a Russian prison. The Russians will not admit that because that would make them responsible for extraditing him to the USA, which they do not intend to do.

The Russians have seized and copied his hard drives and everything he was carrying. They are questioning him, possibly with "enhanced interrogation techniques."

They will release him to Ecuador when they are satisfied they have gotten everything they can. That may be several weeks.

That I would buy as well. Snowden is the epitome of moronic.

 

[T-Rexx]

Wow I have been following along and it seems lacking any actual proof or action to go with we have digressed into theory. Just as well, the theory that the NSA is doing you harm will go by the wayside just as it has on this simple thread.

The NSA does harm merely by collecting information on Americans without suspicion of wrongdoing, without the knowledge of the subjects, and without any real supervision by a third party. It is not possible for any person, organization, or country to collect such information under such circumstances without abusing the privilege. Not possible.

Wolfgang Schmidt, a former colonel in the East German Stasi, says he is appalled at PRISM.

“It is the height of naivete to think that once collected this information won’t be used. This is the nature of secret government organizations. The only way to protect the people’s privacy is not to allow the government to collect their information in the first place."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/26/195045/memories-of-stasi-color-germans.html

- - - Updated - - -

That I would buy as well. Snowden is the epitome of moronic.

It wasnt Snowden's decision to go to Russian. The Chinese sent him there.

 

[JayHawk]

Snowden went to land controlled by CHina and thought it would be much more fair and rule of law than the US... what a laugh. He either is fucking ignorant OR his original intent with four laptops of data was to sell it for asylum and cash... he failed by showing up before working out a deal. Idiot.


I am happy that the Stasi guy somehow has more actual information about PRISM than any of you people do. All that is out there is mad speculation. It seems you are all bestowed with the gift of knowing things without actually having any facts. So by Stasi boys account all tech companies are evil doers? Guess where this data comes from and the NSA just grabs a portion.

 

[T-Rexx]

I am happy that the Stasi guy somehow has more actual information about PRISM than any of you people do.

He doesn't.

All that is out there is mad speculation. It seems you are all bestowed with the gift of knowing things without actually having any facts

Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is not necessary to know every detail about PRISM's operation to understand that.

So by Stasi boys account all tech companies are evil doers? Guess where this data comes from and the NSA just grabs a portion.

Tech companies do not collect information on Americans without our awareness that such information is being collected; nor do they do so without supervisory oversight by the government.

We have had an ongoing debate in America for decades about how strictly tech companies need to be regulated to control the information they collect. We have had no such debate about the NSA because, until Snowden, we were not aware of what was going on.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Edward Snowden: Whistleblower Revealed, Interview

Much respect to this man. Like Manning, it's another young guy - but there are many difference between them. It's somewhat encouraging, that even after the digital revolution, there are still tech guys with a backbone and decency. The very ethical hackers and their moral codex of yesterday managed to pass their values to the next generation.

Just look what he did. He knew exactly what he is getting himself into. And he still did it. How many of us would pay that price?

LMAO. German court is contuining to block releasing data on Nazi Germany. Thoughts?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23096815

This article was posted on June 28th.

 

[kallipolis]

We have had an ongoing debate in America for decades about how strictly tech companies need to be regulated to control the information they collect. We have had no such debate about the NSA because, until Snowden, we were not aware of what was going on.

This..................

 

[kallipolis]

The NSA does harm merely by collecting information on Americans without suspicion of wrongdoing, without the knowledge of the subjects, and without any real supervision by a third party. It is not possible for any person, organization, or country to collect such information under such circumstances without abusing the privilege. Not possible.

And that level of abuse might well be the reason why Snowden spoke out, and why there is so much denial from the very top of the power pyramid.

 

[Corny]

Oh LL, your attempts are so desperate. But let's work on your reading comprehension again.

This is the part that has not been published.

Bild has been trying to establish how much the BND may have known about Eichmann's hiding place after the war.

Direct infomation about the work of the secret service. Not anything about what Eichmann has done. Aaand after this pathetic interlude, you may continue to hang out with the nothing to hide crew and let us get back to topic.

The "Nobody is a hurt by a bit spying" or "i have nothing to hide" arguments are dangerous delusions. I mean, you guys have an amendment, vehmently defended by many, allowing to bear arms basically because of the mistrust against the illdoings of your government. it's one of the pillars of modern democracies that the government does not interfer with your personal life. look about what has been written about the stasi/gdr(ddr) in the past. this .. was peanuts against what's happening right now. the system is much bigger, much more detailed and effects much more people.

And it does hurt innocent people:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/how-trust-state-spies-citizens

I don't even know anymore, which government spying conspirady theory hasn't been proven true.

You can't blame him for fleeing the US, no matter where. In history there have been many "unfortunate" accidents with people publishing illdoings of government body.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/19/michael-hastings-runaway-general-dies

Or how about Barret Brown?
http://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#axzz2X9RMrDLN#

Meanwhile toddlers with guns have killed more people than the terrorists.

 

[tigerfan482]

What people still have yet to do is actually prove the government a) has used the PRISM capability against Americans and b) that they have collected anything more than metadata in situations where they don't have a legal probable cause warrant. This is what Snowden failed to prove. He has not shown any government conspiracy to gather Americans personal, protected data and store it. He has merely shown the existence of two legal programs that he postulates is being using to spy on Americans. For a person with unprecedented access to this information like he claimed to have, he has provided not one ounce of proof of anything but that a technical capability exists and that the government gets warrants for collection of metadata like it is supposed to do.

 

[Lostlover]

Oh LL, your attempts are so desperate. But let's work on your reading comprehension again.

This is the part that has not been published.

Direct infomation about the work of the secret service. Not anything about what Eichmann has done. Aaand after this pathetic interlude, you may continue to hang out with the nothing to hide crew and let us get back to topic.

The "Nobody is a hurt by a bit spying" or "i have nothing to hide" arguments are dangerous delusions. I mean, you guys have an amendment, vehmently defended by many, allowing to bear arms basically because of the mistrust against the illdoings of your government. it's one of the pillars of modern democracies that the government does not interfer with your personal life. look about what has been written about the stasi/gdr(ddr) in the past. this .. was peanuts against what's happening right now. the system is much bigger, much more detailed and effects much more people.

And it does hurt innocent people:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/how-trust-state-spies-citizens

I don't even know anymore, which government spying conspirady theory hasn't been proven true.

You can't blame him for fleeing the US, no matter where. In history there have been many "unfortunate" accidents with people publishing illdoings of government body.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/19/michael-hastings-runaway-general-dies

Or how about Barret Brown?
http://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#axzz2X9RMrDLN#

Meanwhile toddlers with guns have killed more people than the terrorists.

Nice try. The link wasn't about Eichmann. The post was about Germany's steadfast refusal to open its records, some 70 years later.

You're fine with your own country's secretiveness concerning the story of the 20th century but support a criminal like Snowden who didn't expose any unlawful activity. If you find government spying on its people to be an abomination, you're living in hell. Germany is far more active at gathering Germans' information than the US is.

This is a phony, non-issue with you. Germany is far more active at spying on its people than the US and you have no issue at all with your own country doing it.

Your hypocrisy stinks. Just admit you have an agenda.

 

[Corny]

Nice try. The link wasn't about Eichmann. The post was about Germany's steadfast refusal to open its records, some 70 years later.

This link was exactly about a request from one paper to gain insight into secret service files about their knowledge of Eichmann's hiding place. It was NOT about Eichmann's crimes. Reading comprehension my dear.

You're fine with your own country's secretiveness concerning the story of the 20th century but support a criminal like Snowden who didn't expose any unlawful activity. If you find government spying on its people to be an abomination, you're living in hell. Germany is far more active at gathering Germans' information than the US is.

This is a phony, non-issue with you. Germany is far more active at spying on its people than the US and you have no issue at all with your own country doing it.

No I'm not. Not at all. And I never said that. STOP trying to put words into other people's mouth. You do it all the time. Probably because you can't do better or because your reading comprehension also fails you here. I'm not fine with Germany spying on us, I'm not fine with China spying on their people. But guess what? THAT'S NOT THE TOPIC HERE. <- here, I wrote it in bold, just for you.
Apart from that, if you come up with such claims, back it up with numbers. I'd say currently it's USA #1 in numbers, just this time you're trying to throw some flares to distract from that topic at hand. You'd be the joke of any debate class. This is a prime example of Tu Quoque.


And even if Germany were the worst police state thinkable. How on earth would that make the NSA spying any better? Would it make it less wrong? Please, tell me or refrain from those ridiculous ad hominem attacks and desperate attempts at deraling a topic when you don't have any other arguments than trying to point fingers at other poster's background.

 

[rareboy]

Honest to Pete Corny. I don't know why you even try. LL has a big bag of axes to grind. The fact that you are a 'foreigner' passing comment on the doings of the NSA puts you right in the cross hairs. I guess that for LL, the fact that everyone is spying on their citizens somehow makes it all okay in the US too. sigh.

 

[kallipolis]

Germany is far more active at gathering Germans' information than the US is.

This is a phony, non-issue with you. Germany is far more active at spying on its people than the US and you have no issue at all with your own country doing it.

This assertion interests me. Kindly provide a link to a credible source evidencing this allegation.

 

[bankside]

This link was exactly about a request from one paper to gain insight into secret service files about their knowledge of Eichmann's hiding place. It was NOT about Eichmann's crimes. Reading comprehension my dear.




No I'm not. Not at all. And I never said that. STOP trying to put words into other people's mouth. You do it all the time. Probably because you can't do better or because your reading comprehension also fails you here. I'm not fine with Germany spying on us, I'm not fine with China spying on their people. But guess what? THAT'S NOT THE TOPIC HERE. <- here, I wrote it in bold, just for you.
Apart from that, if you come up with such claims, back it up with numbers. I'd say currently it's USA #1 in numbers, just this time you're trying to throw some flares to distract from that topic at hand. You'd be the joke of any debate class. This is a prime example of Tu Quoque.


And even if Germany were the worst police state thinkable. How on earth would that make the NSA spying any better? Would it make it less wrong? Please, tell me or refrain from those ridiculous ad hominem attacks and desperate attempts at deraling a topic when you don't have any other arguments than trying to point fingers at other poster's background.

Well said.

If someone makes a post about Canada's recent history of recruiting churches to destroy aboriginal culture and "christianize" and "civilize" my fellow citizens, I will say "Yes, it's terrible. Of course we've had other bad episodes of oppressive policy, going back to the Durham Report of the 1830s that intended to do the same thing to French Canadians to make them English. And NAZIs actually came to my province, Alberta, to learn some of their eugenics techniques. They wouldn't have seen any Japanese Canadians while they were here though; we put them all in internment camps. We actually amended our constitution to deal with these kinds of issues, and for a time we even had a government program that paid people to sue the government when these kinds of rights were infringed. Life is still not great for aboriginals on reserve communities though."

I will not say "OH YEAH? Well YOU had (insert: NAZIs… Slavery… Apartheid… Communism… Leprosy… )!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[kallipolis]

I will not say "OH YEAH? Well YOU had (insert: NAZIs… Slavery… Apartheid… Communism… Leprosy… )!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Correct. It's about now...not the past...from which we should learn...not to repeat... the mistakes of the past.

 

[Lostlover]

This link was exactly about a request from one paper to gain insight into secret service files about their knowledge of Eichmann's hiding place. It was NOT about Eichmann's crimes. Reading comprehension my dear.




No I'm not. Not at all. And I never said that. STOP trying to put words into other people's mouth. You do it all the time. Probably because you can't do better or because your reading comprehension also fails you here. I'm not fine with Germany spying on us, I'm not fine with China spying on their people. But guess what? THAT'S NOT THE TOPIC HERE. <- here, I wrote it in bold, just for you.
Apart from that, if you come up with such claims, back it up with numbers. I'd say currently it's USA #1 in numbers, just this time you're trying to throw some flares to distract from that topic at hand. You'd be the joke of any debate class. This is a prime example of Tu Quoque.


And even if Germany were the worst police state thinkable. How on earth would that make the NSA spying any better? Would it make it less wrong? Please, tell me or refrain from those ridiculous ad hominem attacks and desperate attempts at deraling a topic when you don't have any other arguments than trying to point fingers at other poster's background.

That's exactly what I said earlier: me posting the link was less about Eichmann/German history and more about your own country hiding its past which you are fine with, even if its almost 80 years later.

You're just too funny and it's unintentional I believe. Telling me to stop talking about this and that, running when confronted, and then purposefully changing the topic (Who here really thought I wanted to talk about Eichmann like Corny is alleging?).

You have a general disrespect for people who have a different opinion from you (harassing Harke for years on here) and people who challenge you (Remember when you first ran from Jack Springer because he dared to ask about your own country's history?)

This is a trend I have noticed late: when challenged, obfuscate and tell the other person to get back on topic. If you don't like being asked certain questions, or have imaginary boundaries on topics, maybe you shouldn't be posting then, eh?

You made me laugh when you ran from Springer. Now you're making me laugh by your inability and unwillingness to talk about your own country's spying which is magnitudes worse than the US'.

 

[Corny]

I've been neither harassing Harke (with whom I haven't interacted in years), nor running from Jack (of whom, despite his political opinopns, I have a much higher opinion than of you). I have a general disrespect for your miserable attempts at a "discussion". You are deflecting open discussion, you are ruining threads. It's probably not a surprise for anyone that of all JUB user, you are the one that has been most warned and infracted of all. YOU are one of the reasons that hardly anybody uses this forum except for the usual republican vs democrats circlejerk. And this is a topic which should be completely outside of this circlejerk, so you have to look for something else. Note that there are several other posters in this thread on "your side", but none of them manages to derail the thread or pointing fingers. I'm not sure if I can rule out that you really have that lack of reading comprehension or if you are doing it on purpose. Given your history here, I do believe you're doing it on purpose. And I'm obviously not the only one sick and tired of your shit.

Congratulations, you did it again.

 

[Lostlover]

This link was exactly about a request from one paper to gain insight into secret service files about their knowledge of Eichmann's hiding place. It was NOT about Eichmann's crimes. Reading comprehension my dear.




No I'm not. Not at all. And I never said that. STOP trying to put words into other people's mouth. You do it all the time. Probably because you can't do better or because your reading comprehension also fails you here. I'm not fine with Germany spying on us, I'm not fine with China spying on their people. But guess what? THAT'S NOT THE TOPIC HERE. <- here, I wrote it in bold, just for you.
Apart from that, if you come up with such claims, back it up with numbers. I'd say currently it's USA #1 in numbers, just this time you're trying to throw some flares to distract from that topic at hand. You'd be the joke of any debate class. This is a prime example of Tu Quoque.


And even if Germany were the worst police state thinkable. How on earth would that make the NSA spying any better? Would it make it less wrong? Please, tell me or refrain from those ridiculous ad hominem attacks and desperate attempts at deraling a topic when you don't have any other arguments than trying to point fingers at other poster's background.

The bolded part is pure dishonesty. You're going from just being wrong to being wrong and dishonest. Of course the US makes the most requests for information. We have about 4 times as many people as Germany, the most popular country in the EU. The question should be: proportionally, which country has the most requests per citizen. The UK leads the pack with Germany not too far behind.

I could have told you that there were inter-government collaborations in exchanging this information before it came out. I don't think Google collects this information just for itself and voluntarily destroys it. That would be naive.

I don't think the NSA did anything appalling. Since you're against it, take it out on your government. They aided the NSA.

You make me laugh because you don't want to be questioned about your own government and you bitch about spying and government transparency while there are active cases where German courts are withholding information from WWII. The US has to be transparent but not Germany?

Last request: Can we get a poster criticize the NSA from a country that wasn't a dictatorship recently (Greece), didn't collaborate with the NSA (the UK and Germany among others) and doesn't spy on its citizens at higher rates than the US (the UK, Germany, etc.)?