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Effeminate Need Not Apply.

Franco Verum

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Joined
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Some of the strongest and most centered men I ever met, were outwardly effeminate. You're attracted to who you're attracted to, but why does it FEEL wrong in when a club openly tell effeminate men that they aren't wanted?

 
This is the thing. There have always been spaces just for like-minded gay men (Leather, Bear, African-American, gym bros, etc.), but saying you want a space for just masculine sounding and acting gay men? It's like those are fighting words. Personally, I don't care.
 
So what? Surely any venue or online forum can be for a specific type.
If it is not what you are, move on.
It is no different to there being women-only spaces

Sadly, women-only spaces are also being attacked by the LGBTQWERTY maffia. In some parts of Australia it is now illegal for women to organise a private event for women only - even for lesbians.
And all over Europe, gay saunas and darkrooms are being intruded by tiny but broad-hipped manlets with zippers across their chest.
 
Sadly, women-only spaces are also being attacked by the LGBTQWERTY maffia. In some parts of Australia it is now illegal for women to organise a private event for women only - even for lesbians.
And all over Europe, gay saunas and darkrooms are being intruded by tiny but broad-hipped manlets with zippers across their chest.
Yes, I heard that. Disgusting.
Back in the day I can remember no-one would dare to try and invade lesbian bars and clubs. And quite right, too.
These days trannies have got way too uppity for their own good. And that is what they all are. Transvestites.
No self respecting genuine transsexual wants to draw attention to themselves. They just want to be left alone to live their authentic lives.
 
No self respecting genuine transsexual wants to draw attention to themselves. They just want to be left alone to live their authentic lives.
I'm not so convinced.

And it's not just trans people.

Methinks we are too sold on gay theory that would make all gay men caused by the same thing, be it genes, parenting, or in utero environment.

From entirely personal observation, there seems to be at least socially more than one kind of gay psychology. Although all seem to be attracted to other men, there is definitely a stripe or strain that seems to express it as a type of rebellion, whether as feminine or just rejection of binary thinking and types.

There is a co-worker at my site, a young man who is about 30. He has progressively become a different person over the last two years. He is married, has two small sons in early elementary school, and is a financial analyst doing the same job I do.

He self-announced 2-3 years ago that he is non-binary, and made some kind of pronoun statement in his work group. Since then, he has begun dressing in feminine ways that do not include dresses, but do include sexualized attire, such as a bare shoulder with an off-shoulder one-sided sweater over some tank or something.

He has painted his nails an array of colors and designs, begun adding eyeliner with Egyptian exaggerated outer eyelash lines and jewelry that is feminine.

All through his changes, I have simply talked to him as I have always done, dropping by with humor, gossip, and whatever, but never commenting on his appearance, just as he has never commented on his identity.

I will say that things like the off-shoulder attire in an office appear to be intentionally and aggressively disruptive. A woman is not allowed to be bare shouldered in this company either, so bending it for him/her isn't ok.

Not sure if he's hoping to get fired, or get fired and sue, or simply act out against binary dominance, but it doesn't come across as simply being non-conforming.
 
I'm not so convinced.

And it's not just trans people.

Methinks we are too sold on gay theory that would make all gay men caused by the same thing, be it genes, parenting, or in utero environment.

From entirely personal observation, there seems to be at least socially more than one kind of gay psychology. Although all seem to be attracted to other men, there is definitely a stripe or strain that seems to express it as a type of rebellion, whether as feminine or just rejection of binary thinking and types.

There is a co-worker at my site, a young man who is about 30. He has progressively become a different person over the last two years. He is married, has two small sons in early elementary school, and is a financial analyst doing the same job I do.

He self-announced 2-3 years ago that he is non-binary, and made some kind of pronoun statement in his work group. Since then, he has begun dressing in feminine ways that do not include dresses, but do include sexualized attire, such as a bare shoulder with an off-shoulder one-sided sweater over some tank or something.

He has painted his nails an array of colors and designs, begun adding eyeliner with Egyptian exaggerated outer eyelash lines and jewelry that is feminine.

All through his changes, I have simply talked to him as I have always done, dropping by with humor, gossip, and whatever, but never commenting on his appearance, just as he has never commented on his identity.

I will say that things like the off-shoulder attire in an office appear to be intentionally and aggressively disruptive. A woman is not allowed to be bare shouldered in this company either, so bending it for him/her isn't ok.

Not sure if he's hoping to get fired, or get fired and sue, or simply act out against binary dominance, but it doesn't come across as simply being non-conforming.
In the case that you mention, I wouldn't read into it more than an experimental search for an identity.
I remember in my early 20's that I dressed (dressed, not acted) much more flamboyantly, non-binary (in today's parlance). This was never any sort of hint at being trans or even non-binary (we didn't have that expression then). It was purely that I was trying to find a style that I felt comfortable in.
It soon wore off!
 
In any group, male or female, gay or straight, there will be people who are extroverts or attention-seekers, just as there will be introverts and people who prefer to avoid the limelight.

The point about groups or events which are limited to specific characteristics is that there will always be some people whose mission in life seems to be to force their way in. This is particularly so when the specific characteristics include being male. Think of the Church of England clergy (the new Archbishop of Canterbury is a woman), the Scout Association (which now admits girls despite Girl Guides still excluding boys) and even JUB (which has a smattering of online fag hags despite being explicitly a site for gay men). When the group is women only, such as the Women's Institute, men remain largely excluded though as gender equality seems to be something of a one-way street.

I've never come across a gay bar which limits entry to a particular type of gay or lesbian. For that matter, I've never known a gay bar which even asks to see one's gay card. There's one bar in Birmingham (Eden) which holds events for particular groups (such as Midlands Bears), but even then I suspect one doesn't need to be a bear to get in. The question is, why would you?
 
I'm not seeing any posts that suggest this forum isn't a "safe space" for trans people.

Safe spaces are not devoid of different perceptions or perspectives.

The whole concept of binary doesn't just exist among straights, but is certainly present among gays. There has been an almost assumed dichotomy between "tops" and "bottoms" in gay sites for as long as I have accessed them.

On JUB, bisexuals were mocked and called closeted or self-loathing by gays who didn't accept the concept.

Hot Topics wasn't known for titillation and eroticism, but for lively debates, which meant head-butting. There are coming-out forums, religious forums, and the like for "safe spaces" for anyone who might view contradiction as rejection in toto.

I don't count myself among those who see homosexuality as exclusively genetic in origin, but I don't feel defined or excluded by those who do. We disagree.
 
The whole concept of binary doesn't just exist among straights, but is certainly present among gays. There has been an almost assumed dichotomy between "tops" and "bottoms" in gay sites for as long as I have accessed them.

The binary referred to here isn't straight & gay or top & bottom, but male and female.
Bisexuals exist, versatile gays exist, but what doesn't exist is a third gamete.

People who won't conform to outdated sexist gender stereotypes don't suddenly become the opposite sex. Nor does a man become a woman through surgery and/or medication.

There are zero genders, two sexes, three sexualities and infinite personalities. No drugs or surgery needed.

A lot of the young people being transgendered right now are simply proto-gay (and therefore gender non-conforming) youth.
Which is why we will see a lot more detransitioners than transitioners in 50 years from now.
 
The binary referred to here isn't straight & gay or top & bottom, but male and female.
Bisexuals exist, versatile gays exist, but what doesn't exist is a third gamete.

People who won't conform to outdated sexist gender stereotypes don't suddenly become the opposite sex. Nor does a man become a woman through surgery and/or medication.

There are zero genders, two sexes, three sexualities and infinite personalities. No drugs or surgery needed.

A lot of the young people being transgendered right now are simply proto-gay (and therefore gender non-conforming) youth.
Which is why we will see a lot more detransitioners than transitioners in 50 years from now.
I'm fully aware of what binary in gender means, and I intentionally extended the concept to other binary thinking.

I agree the concept of gender and the defining behaviors of gender are changing, but taking an absolutist position that there are zero genders is simply sitting in the corner and not looking out. Society will NEVER be genderless. Gender roles will ALWAYS exist, even if it carves out a space for gender non-conforming roles.

In my own space, I intentionally move against masculine behavior models that apply here in the heartland, but that doesn't mean I am not identified correctly and accurately as male and masculine, whichever moniker my peers choose.

We encounter the same imperial dictums about race and gender today from progressives which only represent a scintilla of the population. I'm fully in support of allowing that scintilla their freedom too, but their pronouncements do not become mandates for society, only idealizations.
 
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