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End of the war? Rebel troops enter Tripoli, Gaddafi's regime collapsing

Where's [STRIKE]Wally[/STRIKE] Gaddafi?


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They search him here, they search him there, they search him everywhere....


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justapixel said:
Doesnt surprise me in the least that Obama was helping Gaddafi.

Remember, he refused to help the rebel and was dragged kicking and screaming to provide help to the French and British.

17 months until our national nightmare ends. January 20, 2013.
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Was President Obama dragged kicking, and screaming to ...................?

News to me, and the rest of the world.

Provide us with evidence that President Obama was helping Gadaffi during the ongoing Libyan civil war. I am sure that David Cameron, and Nicholas Sarkozy would appreciate hearing from you.
 
justapixel said:
Doesnt surprise me in the least that Obama was helping Gaddafi.
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at least have the decency to READ the article before making wild claims:

I found what appeared to be the minutes of a meeting between senior Libyan officials – Abubakr Alzleitny and Mohammed Ahmed Ismail – and David Welch, former assistant secretary of state under George W Bush. Welch was the man who brokered the deal to restore diplomatic relations between the US and Libya in 2008.

Welch now works for Bechtel, a multinational American company with billion-dollar construction deals across the Middle East. The documents record that, on August 2, 2011, David Welch met with Gaddafi's officials at the Four Seasons Hotel in Cairo, just a few blocks from the US embassy.

During that meeting Welch advised Gaddafi's team on how to win the propaganda war, suggesting several "confidence-building measures", according to the documents. The documents appear to indicate that an influential US political personality was advising Gaddafi on how to beat the US and NATO.
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Remember, he refused to help the rebel and was dragged kicking and screaming to provide help to the French and British.
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and just by coincidence the french and the british were helping the rebels :roll:
 
kallipolis said:
Was President Obama dragged kicking, and screaming to ...................?

News to me, and the rest of the world.

Provide us with evidence that President Obama was helping Gadaffi during the ongoing Libyan civil war. I am sure that David Cameron, and Nicholas Sarkozy would appreciate hearing from you.
Click to expand...

Please go back to JUB and see where I basically was begging for Obama to take any military actions.

He did not do so until the French and British took the lead.
 
justapixel said:
17 months until our national nightmare ends. January 20, 2013.
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You got the date wrong. The new Democratic majority in the House of Representatives will be sworn in the first week of January 2013.
 
justapixel said:
Please go back to JUB and see where I basically was begging for Obama to take any military actions.

He did not do so until the French and British took the lead.
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The United States transferred to NATO control of military measures in support of the liberation forces in Libya, after having been involved at the outset in support of anti Gaddafi forces.
 
kallipolis said:
The United States transferred to NATO control of military measures in support of the liberation forces in Libya, after having been involved at the outset in support of anti Gaddafi forces.
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Why do you insist on cluttering this thread with THE FACTS? [-X The next thing you're going to claim is that no Americans died on the ground in Libya! #-o How 'bout...we didn't go into Libya soon enough. Uh, we went into Libya too soon. Am I a True Believer yet? *|* *|* *|*
 
justapixel said:
Obama failed to act and tens of thousands died.
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chrisrobin said:
How 'bout...we didn't go into Libya soon enough. Uh, we went into Libya too soon.
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There are many viewpoints relating to the situation in Libya, the propensity of the US to intervene, and reasons why things sometimes happen the way they do.

The highest figure I found today (via a quick Google search) is 10 to 15 thousand dead in Libya and that estimate was suggested by Cherif Bassiouni [Reuters]. On the other hand, Mr. Bassiouni is suspected of having ties to the United Nations and has even gone so far as to propose that members of the Bush Administration be held accountable for their criminal conduct via institutionalization of torture. He also suggests that members of the Obama Administration are effectively “accomplices or accessories after the fact” by helping to cover up Bush era torture.

David Woolner suggests that President Obama understands how leading powers in the world have a role and responsibility to maintain the peace. He notes that other American presidents, such as Franklin D. Roosevelt, George H.W. Bush, and Harry S. Truman also understood that role and he points out how they were careful to solicit support of the world community before unleashing force against oppressive regimes or dictators [New Deal 2.0].

Tayyab Siddiqui (former Ambassador of Pakistan to Zimbabwe and Egypt) suggests that Obama distorted the facts when he pretended to hold the high moral ground in declaring “some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The US is different, and as president, I refuse to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action.” Mr. Siddiqui notes how that language is reminiscent of George W. Bush’s statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and how important it was to rid the world of Saddam Hussein – supposedly in the interest of global peace and security. He insists that Libya is just another example of Western intervention designed to eliminate a leader and exert control over more of the world’s resources [The News].
 
I've always wondered why were radical Islamists in Afganistan (talibans) called terrorists and the ones in Libya rebels. It is true that NTC members are largely professionals, doctors, lawyers, and professors, but they don’t control the guns. The rebel commanders do. And don't be naive thinking that NATO is helping the rebels to get rid of "evil" Gaddafi. NATO has their own interests; it is helping the rebels overthrow Gaddafi in order to gain more control over the Libyan oil, which was not possible under Gaddafi's rule. I am not saying Gaddafi is the perfect leader, but in comparison to the rest of Africa and the likes of Mugabe, Compaore, Mswati III etc., he knew how to take care of his people.
Libya has no foreign debt (which is quite the opposite to the US) and trust me guys, when the rebels take control under the rule of the West, Libya will be just another one of the impoverished African countries that most of you will forget about in a short while.
 
^Radical Muslims who are supporting the liberation movement in Libya have no connection with the Taliban in Afghanistan, nor are they engaged in terrorist activities against The West.

Whereas, Gaddafi was complicit in terror campaigns against Western countries, including the United Kingdom, France and Germany.

Tribal interests are the backbone of the liberation forces and their tribal leaders are also part of the political elite that is providing Libya with a transitional government.

Gaddafi is being removed by his own people as a result of his exploitation of the majority to enrich the elite who supported him and maintained him in power.

Under Gaddafi's rule Libyan oil flowed to underwrite Gadaffi's dictatorial leadership of the Libyan people.
 
^I never said the rebels in Libya are connected to the Taliban, but if you look at them as an institution they are quite similar. Libyan rebels do not represent the majority of Libyans who even protested against NATO being involved and killing so many civilians. I lived in Africa for many years and still spend long periods in individual African countries, so I'm not exposed to Western media and opinions only.
NATO destroyed the infrastructure of the country during the bombings. And do you know who are they going to bring to re-build the country? Mind you, Libya is debt free. They are going to bring in USAID and other western contractors to rebuild the infrastructure that was destroyed by these same NATO countries. And who is going to foot the bill? The poor Libyans.
 
^ But you clearly drew a parallel between the Libyan Muslim radicals, and The Taliban in Afghanistan in order to suggest that NATO was supporting terrorists in Libya by another name.

Africa is an enormous continent. Had you lived in Libya you would not be offering us such a bizarre view of events.

NATO destroyed Gadaffi's military command, and control centres along with Gadaffi's military machine.

After any civil war there must be a reconstruction period to return the country to normality. Libya is no exception.

Now the Libyan people are free from a vicious dictatorship that enriched its ruling elite, and left its people in want of a more rewarding life.

The Libyan civil war illustrates that Arabs can successfully rebel against a despot whose only interest was to maintain himself in absolute power.
 
^Lived in Libya for 8 months in 2001 and 7 months in 2009, including many shorter visits.
 
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