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ENDA: How much of this is true?

Kulindahr said:
No, it isn't. That would only be true if gay marriage meant requiring all religious groups to marry any gays who requested it.
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There is no difference. How they conduct their religious rites is up to them. But how they conduct secular business has to follow the same rules everybody else is bound by. Being religious doesn't entitle you to bigotry in business.
 
So this law would protect a fat, 60 yo woman's right to work as a go go dancer in a gay bar?
 
Jack Springer said:
So this law would protect a fat, 60 yo woman's right to work as a go go dancer in a gay bar?
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No. That has been a bona fide exemption for the bar to discriminate based on sex for 50 years. The civil rights act also does not protect against appearance or weight. The bill addresses sexual orientation and gender identity, not weight, and even if it did, it would still maintain the bona fide exemption in the civil rights act.
 
I don't see how the bar could discriminate against the woman. They would have to let her dance if she were qualified.

I don't think you have have it both ways.

Some laws can result in consequences that were not envisioned.
 
Jack Springer said:
I don't see how the bar could discriminate against the woman. They would have to let her dance if she were qualified.

I don't think you have have it both ways.
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No they would not.

Being an attractive male is the purpose of the job, opposed to say, an office manager.
 
Jack Springer said:
I don't see how the bar could discriminate against the woman. They would have to let her dance if she were qualified.

I don't think you have have it both ways.

Some laws can result in consequences that were not envisioned.
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Being out of shape and female makes her unqualified.

Don't tell me you're against ENDA...
 
I'm not a fan of new laws. There are so many on the books now. I really don't see where this would make any difference.

Laws often have unintended consequences.
 
Rolyo85 said:
There is no difference. How they conduct their religious rites is up to them. But how they conduct secular business has to follow the same rules everybody else is bound by. Being religious doesn't entitle you to bigotry in business.
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A religious business is not secular, by definition.
 
Jack Springer said:
I'm not a fan of new laws. There are so many on the books now. I really don't see where this would make any difference.

Laws often have unintended consequences.
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I guess we shouldn't have any laws then, especially not one that prevents gays from getting fired. You know how sensitive Tony Perkins is :lol:. That's fine Jack really, if we actually depended on the support of gay conservatives we would have no legislation whatsoever helping our community.
 
Discrimination is a real problem.

Gay and Transgender People Face High Rates of Workplace Discrimination and Harassment

The Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy aggregated a number of surveys to determine the extent to which gay and transgender workers experience discrimination and harassment in the workplace. Their findings illustrate that discrimination and harassment are pervasive:

  • Fifteen percent to 43 percent of gay and transgender workers have experienced some form of discrimination on the job.
  • Eight percent to 17 percent of gay and transgender workers report being passed over for a job or fired because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
  • Ten percent to 28 percent received a negative performance evaluation or were passed over for a promotion because they were gay or transgender.
  • Seven percent to 41 percent of gay and transgender workers were verbally or physically abused or had their workplace vandalized.
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Alnitak said:
I guess we shouldn't have any laws then, especially not one that prevents gays from getting fired. You know how sensitive Tony Perkins is :lol:. That's fine Jack really, if we actually depended on the support of gay conservatives we would have no legislation whatsoever helping our community.
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Well most conservative gays are either so rich that they're above the law, or closeted. Neither group cares about equality.
 
Rolyo85 said:
False. Business itself is secular by definition. The word "religious" can only ever describe the personal beliefs of the business' owner. Otherwise you're pretty much making the argument that a Christian run hospital could turn away gay patients.
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May activities of churches are "businesses" only because the government classifies them that way. A church publishing house, for example, is not a "business" in the ordinary sense.
 
Kulindahr said:
May activities of churches are "businesses" only because the government classifies them that way. A church publishing house, for example, is not a "business" in the ordinary sense.
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It absolutely is. And government is what protects our rights so that's the only definition I care about.

Otherwise you open the door for all sorts of exemptions for businesses that otherwise benefit fully from all secular laws.
 
Rolyo85 said:
It absolutely is. And government is what protects our rights so that's the only definition I care about.

Otherwise you open the door for all sorts of exemptions for businesses that otherwise benefit fully from all secular laws.
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No, it isn't. It isn't there to make a profit, it isn't there for any secular purpose at all-- a church publishing house exists for the express purpose of its church. They have every right to tell anyone who doesn't share that faith to go look elsewhere for a job.
 
Kulindahr said:
No, it isn't. It isn't there to make a profit, it isn't there for any secular purpose at all-- a church publishing house exists for the express purpose of its church. They have every right to tell anyone who doesn't share that faith to go look elsewhere for a job.
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Actually that depends ENTIRELY on whether it's for profit, or not. If it's for profit, what the goals are is completely irrelevant.
 
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