Enforce Existing Immigration Laws [SPLIT]

[fredroy]

View attachment 2671246

Might think to enforce existing immigration laws before telling me I'm a retard because Mr Illegal will work for 1/4 of the pay.

 

[TX-Beau]

Might think to enforce existing immigration laws before telling me I'm a retard because Mr Illegal will work for 1/4 of the pay.

Who do you think is benefiting from not "enforcing" immigration laws. That would be you, and who do you think is going to run to the gubmint? Not the employers.

AND who do you think is going to want to pay much higher prices for Americans to bother to show up in the fields? All of us.

Before we get all mired up in lies that "illegals" are stealing jobs, you go pick Jalapenos for a quarter a bushel, you live right there, or you stop complaining about the prices of groceries, housing, hospitality and a bunch besides.

People who whine about migrant and undocumented labor would never work. first IN the jobs they do for an actual minimum wage, nor second, were Americans EVER doing their jobs. Migrant labor has always been with us.

If as a legal American you can't get a job that pays better than a quarter a bushel, the problem isn't them, and if you go to any farm in the valley as a legal American, I guarantee you that farmer will employ YOU before them for exactly the same terms. Off you go.

 

[fredroy]

^^ Troll.

My point is "enforce the border laws already on the books". It's not a difficult thing to understand.

So I have to pay $3 for an avocado. Cheap tomatoes, they taste like plastic.

 

[TX-Beau]

When people attack immigrants for silly thing like "stealing: jobs, or "welfare" the issue isn't that immigrants are doin woither, it's that that person is trying to justify a distaste for the people themselves.

^^ Troll.

Descending onto name calling looks even worse.

 

[TX-Beau]

When people attack immigrants for silly things like "stealing" jobs, or "welfare" the issue isn't that immigrants are doing either, it's that, that person n question is trying to justify a distaste usually prejudicial of some sort, for the people themselves.

 

[opinterph]

before telling me I'm a retard

Nobody called you any name. Someone posted a meme in the proper location.

 

[TX-Beau]

^^ Troll.

My point is "enforce the border laws already on the books". It's not a difficult thing to understand.

So I have to pay $3 for an avocado. Cheap tomatoes, they taste like plastic.

Which laws SPECIFICALLY did you have in mind? As far as I can tell, the only laws that aren't enforced are the ones that mean employers have to go to jail. Do enlighten us...

Frankly, I'll take someone who braves jungles, trafficking, cartels, hostile governments, swims rivers and crosses deserts just so I can have reasonably priced strawberries for my table - over any number of whining Americans.

The migrants provide a tangible benefit, the whiners are just so much racist noise.

 

[opinterph]

enforce existing immigration laws

Please provide a list of the immigration laws that are not being enforced.

 

[TX-Beau]

What I suspect is what really scares some people is this:

...Last year saw the lowest birth rate in the US since 1978, according to data from the US National Center for Health Statistics. The decline in fertility in recent years means that the US population is not able to replace itself through reproduction alone...

The US isn't fertile enough to sustain itself without immigrants

The US birth rate is the lowest it's been for 40 years Last year saw the lowest birth rate in the US since 1978, according to data from the US National Center for Health Statistics. The decline in fertility in recent years means that the US population is not able to replace itself through...

www.newscientist.com

Frankly if we welcomed people with open arms, they'd be Americans within a generation or two. Trying to keep people out to preserve some kind of national purity is a fiction in the first place - we are ALL mutts, there is no such thing as racial "purity" anywhere, rhar is futile and would only result in degradation of the thing that's supposed to preserve.

 

[rareboy]

It really is just about brown people coming in, isn't it? Just a reminder, all Europeans live on stolen land.

 

[Norri]

It is about brown people coming in but no land has been stolen. The way of the world is if you can’t defend what you have you risk losing it. We can lament that fact but pity those who ignore it.

 

[Alistair]

It really is just about brown people coming in, isn't it? Just a reminder, all Europeans live on stolen land.

View attachment 2672066

Your map is still wrong.

 

[TX-Beau]

It is about brown people coming in but no land has been stolen. The way of the world is if you can’t defend what you have you risk losing it. We can lament that fact but pity those who ignore it.

So, if I can throw someone out of their house, fuck them and they can shut the fuck up and so sorry - but I'll lament it when they're homeless and starving.

The only ethical principle is might. Very nice. Toad couldn't have said it any better.

 

[opinterph]

if you can’t defend what you have you risk losing it

Does that statement describe the immigration laws you claim are not being enforced?

 

[rareboy]

Your map is still wrong.

View attachment 2673552

Why I wrote that we are all living on stolen land, including the early European and Anglo incursions.

 

[Norri]

So, if I can throw someone out of their house, fuck them and they can shut the fuck up and so sorry - but I'll lament it when they're homeless and starving.

The only ethical principle is might. Very nice. Toad couldn't have said it any better.

Might is not an ethical principle but then the strong don’t always feel the need to refer to ethics before acting. Might does not make right but it does make the world which, we can hopefully agree, isn’t quite right.

Jesus said ‘and the last shall be first and the meek shall inherit the earth’ the problem there is that once the meek inherit the earth they are no longer meek, once in the saddle the morals and ethics they used to adhere to seem limiting and even silly. The best current example of that is the Israeli Jews histories perpetual victims who as a consequence of their power have tossed their morals to the wind.

And have also proved Pete Townsend right ‘meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Nietzsche was right morals are a tool of the weak to try and control the strong.

 

[Norri]

Does that statement describe the immigration laws you claim are not being enforced?

I’m not sure you are responding to me but I have no problem with immigration laws. In fact I think the economic future of the US does not lie on the European plain or in East Asia but in Central and South America for geographic and demographic reasons.

The same American business groups that led the way into China will lead us there.

History will show those anti-immigrant people are shoveling against the tide.

 

[Norri]

Why I wrote that we are all living on stolen land, including the early European and Anglo incursions.

I don’t know when your land ownership clock starts ticking but those native Americans came from somewhere and judging by their DNA it was from Asian and European stock. So it’s not really stealing it’s more like your unwelcome family members showing up when you wished they just stayed away.

 

[TX-Beau]

Might is not an ethical principle but then the strong don’t always feel the need to refer to ethics before acting. Might does not make right but it does make the world which, we can hopefully agree, isn’t quite right.

Jesus said ‘and the last shall be first and the meek shall inherit the earth’ the problem there is that once the meek inherit the earth they are no longer meek, once in the saddle the morals and ethics they used to adhere to seem limiting and even silly. The best current example of that is the Israeli Jews histories perpetual victims who as a consequence of their power have tossed their morals to the wind.

And have also proved Pete Townsend right ‘meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Nietzsche was right morals are a tool of the weak to try and control the strong.

“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”​

― Mahatma Gandhi

The truth is that the world is far more just than it was a century ago, and that is because the strong were trying to do better. Sometimes we do better, sometimes we don't. But we as a species are not inherently amoral dictators where might is the only rule. We are built as communal animals and the moral and ethical codes that have appeared in every part of the world at every time of the world appear because morals and ethics are a survival strategy that give each group cohesion and a better chance at surviving. We are stronger together than the strongest "might is right" asshole and it was Ghandi who was right. I could give a shit about Nietzsche and his syphilitic madness.

 

[KaraBulut]

Does that statement describe the immigration laws you claim are not being enforced?

What surprises me is that even people who live in a border state learn their immigration law from political propagandists.

What is happening at the border falls into three buckets of immigration:

1. Asylum seekers
2. Special status immigrants
3. Undocumented immigrants

Fox News and other conservative outlets want you to believe that most of the immigrants crossing the border are coming from Mexico and fall into category #3. This is NOT correct information. Only about 25% of the people crossing the southern border are Mexicans.

The problem is the asylum laws passed by Congress. It is 8 U.S. Code § 1158 - Asylum. All you have to do is cross the border, ask for asylum, fill out form I-589 and you are allowed to stay in the US legally until you have a hearing before an immigration judge. Congress passed the current asylum law and they have underfunded the immigration staff, particularly the immigration judges, which has created the problem at the border. This has enabled millions of people from China, Cuba, the Northern Triangle countries (El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras), Haiti and Venezuela to come to the US legally under category #1 and #2.

Fun Fact: Why are Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott not in jail for transporting illegal immigrants across State lines? Because DeSantis and Abbott are offering "work" to legal immigrants who are in the US waiting on their asylum hearings. It's not against the law to transport legal immigrants across State lines. And because these governors lied "asked" the migrants if they wanted to get on the bus, it's not kidnapping, either.

Most of the immigrants crossing the southern border in 2023 - around 200,000 encounters per month- were in category #1. The US currently has 1.6 MILLION people who are in the US legally and are waiting on asylum hearings.

About 1/4 of the migrants seeking asylum were from Venezuela. There were 47,000 Venezuelans who crossed the border in December, 2023 alone.

The other big category is category #2. Cuba and Haiti are a mess. No one watching the US news channels would every learn in that 2022 and 2023, a total of 425,000 Cubans traveled to Nicaragua and then crossed the southern border into the US. And guess what- if they stay in the US for a year, they can apply for a green card and work in the US legally because of the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act.

In 2023, the US Government also gave Special Protected Status (also category #2) to 112,000 Haitian immigrants. Many of those immigrants crossed the US southern border because the trip across the straits to Florida is much more dangerous. There are now a total of 731,000 Haitians residing in the US.

The Border Patrol also has been encountering about 6,000 Chinese immigrants per month crossing the border.



The problem is not that the US isn't enforcing laws. The problem is that Congress is allowing legal immigration en masse through programs like the Cuban Adjustment Act and the asylum laws. Congress could fix this. They don't want to because, like in this thread, they want you to believe the problem is illegal immigration and the border is out of control. That it would all be magically fixed if only the US enforced its immigration laws. What laws are those? The ones that allow millions of people to enter the US legally and request asylum? The law that allow Cubans (who are reliable Republican voters in swing states like Florida) to come here legally and get a green card if the don't leave for a year?

The lack of accurate information about immigration laws, particularly the fact that a large number of "illegal immigrants" are crossing the border legally, gives cynical governors and cynical political parties an issue to get voters to vote for them. Until you vote these people out of office, nothing will get fixed.