Ever wonder what goes through an anti-social person's head?

[MakeDigitalLove]

Because some times introverts are better at doing a specific job, regardless of whether it is based on team work or not.

 

[zombiekiller]

Because some times introverts are better at doing a specific job, regardless of whether it is based on team work or not.

But playing teamwork is literally part of the job description. In engineering work these days, there is simply no such thing as one man show anymore.

In construction management, I have seen 3 different crews stepping on each other trying to work in the same area because of bad management and coordination. This is why I need to know everything that goes on.

And I am sure it is not limited to my field. Suppose we have an introvert cop that doesn't want to report he is pulling someone over and then that person turns out to be a hostile with a gun. Or suppose we have an introvert that is an intelligence officer and he finds information that could be vital to someone else bit he doesn't share it because he doesn't like to talk to people.

There are plenty of professions that lone wolves can prosper. I have a friend that literally calls himself the lone wolf. He is a programmer. His wife tells me sometimes he would go for days without speaking to her. He prospers in programming.

 

[Sincitywanker]

First, as other commenters have written, there seem to be two things going on--your question about thought processes, and your employee's specific behavior. It seems as though the latter has been discussed pretty fully, but I have a few thoughts on the former.

First, there's the matter of terminology. Introverts aren't necessarily anti-social. I consider myself an introvert, but I still enjoy being with other people. If I'm in a situation where I have to spend a lot of time with people, I might yearn for a chance to withdraw for a while and recover my energy, but that doesn't mean I don't like any interaction.

A couple of commenters have criticized zombiekiller and his manager for failing to recognize the employee's introversion and implied sensitivity. I think that's an unfair criticism, assuming that zk's presentation of the facts is accurate. No matter how introverted or contact averse the employee is, one of his job requirements appears to be to surrender the record book and to be at least minimally in communication with his colleagues. If he truly finds it painful to interact with others, some accommodation can be found--he could leave the record book in a specified location at a specified time, then leave the area while others collect the book (and presumably leave any updated instructions, which the employee could collect after the area is again empty).

Interesting how introverts insert themselves into team-oriented things but expect to get away with intentional separation. Like hypocrisy; they 'want it both ways' as they say.

mydrew1's criticism also seems unfair. After all, introverts have to live, and one sometimes finds oneself all grown up and qualified for a job that requires more team-oriented activity than one had anticipated. In my last job (I'm retired) I worked as a writer, which is about as perfect a job as one can imagine for an introvert. Nevertheless, I had to spend a few hours each day consulting with engineers, attending team meetings, occasionally even presenting reports on what I did in front of an audience. Those were never my favorite parts of the job, but I found ways to deal with them. I developed (over time, and to some extent unwittingly) a persona that could perform publicly. I was the quiet, sometimes funny, weird, and (where appropriate) gay guy, whose written work was always good, so my colleagues put up with a little forced bizarreness. And I could hide under the persona. It worked well for a quarter century in the one job.

One last comment on this, because it deals with this board: I just joined a month ago, and got taken to task yesterday for talking (well, writing, of course) too much on one of the game threads. My initial reaction was the wounded introvert's (or anti-social person's, if you will), to withdraw and be silent. But I realized that I had carried the public personality from my office job into this space, which was just as inappropriate as it would have been to ask my last (woman) supervisor if she knew where I could find interesting DP films involving cute twinks.

The successful introvert has to learn to behave. I've cut down my remarks on the other thread, and am waxing chatty here, both because it seems that I have expert knowledge about the original question, and also because this seems like the appropriate thread in which to talk.

So there!

(Now, look what I just did. After writing a serious comment, I wrote a two word challenge, which slightly undercuts what I wrote before, but also suggests that I'm an amusing guy with whom you can banter. I may be a more accomplished introvert than even I realized!)

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

^Yes, there seems to be too much of a implication that introverts means anti-social or can't work with teams. Which of course Introverts aren't synonymous with those things.

The problem here isn't whether the employee is introverted or anti-social it is the employee himself. One can be either of these things and still be good at the job they are given.

 

[sixthson]

As an employer, I don't particularly care if you are in introvert or extrovert as long as it doesn't interfere with you doing your job. You can refuse to answer texts, emails or phone calls in your private life, but if you refuse to respond to me or my manager or your supervisor, you are gone, assuming we have tried to work through your issues first. This is your career and your employer is not running a daycare service.

 

[zombiekiller]

As an employer, I don't particularly care if you are in introvert or extrovert as long as it doesn't interfere with you doing your job. You can refuse to answer texts, emails or phone calls in your private life, but if you refuse to respond to me or my manager or your supervisor, you are gone, assuming we have tried to work through your issues first. This is your career and your employer is not running a daycare service.

So you do agree with me that introverted behaviors are inappropriate at the work place.

The problem employee I mentioned is being dealt with by my boss. I'm done with him.

 

[sixthson]

Are you defining introverted behavior strictly by the behavior of this one person? People can be introverted without it affecting their jobs. What this guy is doing sounds to me like it goes far beyond that behavior. It sounds like he is giving all of you the finger.

 

[Sincitywanker]

Zombiekiller,

Please reread the clause that starts sixthson's quoted response, along with my comment from earlier today.

Your employee may be an introvert, but he's also irresponsible, aggressive, and a host of other things.

Being an introvert might--MIGHT--be a liability for a salesman, but it's perfect (though not essential) for a programmer, a writer, a bookkeeper, or a host of other occupations. It sounds like your employee's night tasks involved sitting in an office and monitoring machines--good introvert material. But his failure to communicate with you or surrender documents have nothing to do with introversion or extroversion; they're simply signs of being a crappy employee and a thoughtless person.

 

[opinterph]

But do they know that it is extremely rude and socially inappropriate …

I suspect your situation is rooted more to your company’s corporate hierarchy than it is introversion. [The guy with seniority] does not allow social norms to interrupt the demonstration of his authority.

 

[kallipolis]

It is worth noting that we are reading one man's interpretation of events, with no input from the other person.

I'd feel uneasy about passing judgement when the other person has not been heard.

 

[kallipolis]

Maybe he's not an introvert maybe he just doesn't like you.

This too...........

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

It is worth noting that we are reading one man's interpretation of events, with no input from the other person.

I'd feel uneasy about passing judgement when the other person has not been heard.

Agreed.

I find it incredibly unfair and unprofessional. It is one thing to bring up the guy as an example but I feel like his laundry has been hung out to dry here.

 

[peeonme]

If what we read is accurate then i think it's passive aggression.
https://psychcentral.com/encyclopedia/passive-aggression/

 

[zombiekiller]

I suspect your situation is rooted more to your company’s corporate hierarchy than it is introversion. [The guy with seniority] does not allow social norms to interrupt the demonstration of his authority.

He has seniority in the number of years he's been with the company, but he does not have seniority when it comes to position.

 

[Laboyes]

opinterph's first response accurately sums up the classic definitions of introversion and extroversion and the spectrum of the two.

Like others here have said, it's ridiculous for us to try and analyze this guy based only on your description of him. At the very least, however, it doesn't feel like a stretch to say that a person acting in the way you have described --regardless of seniority-- is not performing professionally.

I consider myself an introvert (read the sort of applicable dangers of self-diagnoses).

During times of very little stress I can be social enough, though I'm typically rather shy. Generally I don't encourage socialization but I'll gladly talk if other people talk to me (sort of asocial, I guess). When I'm stressed out my self-consciousness kicks in, I start to think everything I do in social situations is wrong, and socializing becomes so stressful that it's easier just to try and be totally alone until I can fix whatever is dragging me down (basically antisocially avoiding communication).

I've been going through a bunch of stressful situations of late, and some of my friends have taken to joking that "we'll see each other in two weeks" when I get to spend some time with them.

That said, I know it is my responsibility to communicate when I'm working with a team in a professional setting. As Sincitywanker has put it, even a reticent introvert learns to masquerade an outgoing persona and must operate within the confines of the established work system in order to find their best fit within society. It definitely appears as though more is going on with your colleague than mere introversion.

Aren't we constantly wondering what's going on in any other person's head?

 

[pat grimshaw]

^
Yes, you're right.

...Aren't we constantly wondering what's going on in any other person's head?

We constantly wonder—

1. when we are physically attracted to them, or

2. when we are forced to be in their company at work.

 

[Laboyes]

^
...We constantly wonder—

1. when we are physically attracted to them, or

2. when we are forced to be in their company at work.

There's more to life than work and the erotic, right? It seems like most human interactions require some knowledge of the intended receiving party's ideology.

First example that comes to mind is the friendly neighborhood argument.

 

[pat grimshaw]

... It seems like most human interactions require some knowledge of the intended receiving party's ideology....

I wonder. I get the feeling that most current innovations are designed to assist the consumer avoid human face-to-face interactions.

 

[Kyanimal]

I'm sure what you feel is very similar to what he feels.

You don't think that the team needs to know your progress?

The "team" is relying on me to get the job done Right, and on Time.

The "team", for the sake of all of our success, should stop bugging me when I'm busy, actually working on the project, rather than talking about it, and interrupting the very progress they are so intent upon.

The "team" should not be a Barrier, or the cause of Defects through distraction.

Process Management should stay out of the way of "rubber hits the road" Progress, especially under deadline! If you give someone an assignment, leave them alone to get it Done, not just visualized!

This is coming from someone who was in Management for several years. I am TOO familiar with ISO, 6-S, Lean, Flowcharts, War Rooms, Documented SOPs, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. Though there is a place, and value, though not Added Value, in all that, when it gets "down", or, in my opinion "up", to the level of those who are making things Actually Happen, rather than analyzing, pontificating, and projecting, Management should know when to get the heck out of the way!

I voluntarily went back into Production where I could actually DO something.

The question shouldn't be whether your employee is reacting to You. The question should be whether he's doing a good job, and delivering a solid product to your clients.

Your internal communications pale in comparison to what your clients will let you know!

Frustrating for You? Definitely. Productive and Successful completing the project? That's the only thing that really counts.

If he's good at what he does, be wise enough to stay out of his way.

 

[zombiekiller]

The "team" is relying on me to get the job done Right, and on Time.

The "team", for the sake of all of our success, should stop bugging me when I'm busy, actually working on the project, rather than talking about it, and interrupting the very progress they are so intent upon.

The "team" should not be a Barrier, or the cause of Defects through distraction.

Process Management should stay out of the way of "rubber hits the road" Progress, especially under deadline! If you give someone an assignment, leave them alone to get it Done, not just visualized!

This is coming from someone who was in Management for several years. I am TOO familiar with ISO, 6-S, Lean, Flowcharts, War Rooms, Documented SOPs, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. Though there is a place, and value, though not Added Value, in all that, when it gets "down", or, in my opinion "up", to the level of those who are making things Actually Happen, rather than analyzing, pontificating, and projecting, Management should know when to get the heck out of the way!

I voluntarily went back into Production where I could actually DO something.

The question shouldn't be whether your employee is reacting to You. The question should be whether he's doing a good job, and delivering a solid product to your clients.

Your internal communications pale in comparison to what your clients will let you know!

Frustrating for You? Definitely. Productive and Successful completing the project? That's the only thing that really counts.

If he's good at what he does, be wise enough to stay out of his way.

While what you say may be true in your industry, in mind such attitude simply cannot work well.

Let me give you an example. Last night, after work I drove almost 10 hours back home to get ready the house to put it on the market. My spouse and I concocted a plan on this. If we sell the house now, we can live rent-free for a year because my company is paying for my rent and everything down there. Why not?

Anyway, while I was driving, I got half a dozen calls from the project site. Some asked me questions. Some needed me to decide on certain things. Some just reported in. I answered the phone on every call.

I got home at about 2 AM. At about 6:30 AM, the calls started coming in again. They ran into some problems.

Later today, they will be pouring concrete to form a cap on top of the columns for one of the bigger bridges. A couple weeks ago, I had gone over and over the numbers to make sure everything will work out. To be sure, I made damn sure the bearing pads would give plenty of room for errors (just in case).

One guy called me just now. They did some final measurements before they poured the concrete and one of the anchor bolts were about half an inch off. Since everything was already tied into place, in order to fix that they would have to delay everything by an hour. I told him don't worry when I worked out the bearing pads I made sure there's plenty of room for the anchor bolts. In other words, it could be as much as 2 inches off and we would still be fine. And I'd rather him calling me on my time off to confirm the design of the bearing pad than for something to be seriously wrong and we have to waste tens of man hours to fix later on.

My point is if I have the introverted attitude about this, I would be unreachable. After all, it's my day off. But to me, I would rather donate a couple minutes out of my personal time to the project than having to deal with hours of headache later on if/when something really goes wrong.

I understand that you're talking about production. If the kind of project you were on doesn't involve other team members, then great you can go ahead and go on radio silence. But please understand that in a construction project everything is interconnected. A construction manager that doesn't answer his phone might end up costing us more money and manpower. It's not as simple as "do this" and you do it.

One last thing. Peeonme has suggested that my problem employee is having a passive aggression fit going on. That may be true. But think about it this way. He has been doing this for decades longer than I have and he's still a lower level engineer. Perhaps he feels that his seniority should have been enough to make him the guy in charge. Who knows. He's not really communicating with me. But from my perspective, having the right attitude means everything to the success of the project. And if it means being extroverted with everybody, then so be it.

After all, we spend most of our waking hours working. Why not make the most out of it so everyone can benefit from it? Would it kill an introvert to be a little nicer to the rest of us?