Explosions, shootings reported in central Paris

[mikey3000]

People who think buddhism can be judged by buddhism today are pretty clueless or think Asia sprang into being at the time of WWII. I would not actually be so quick to say given all the sectarian and religious warfare across much of Asia in history that "xx religion we all know and obsess over right now is responsible for more violence than any other religion."

I couldn't even speculate off the cuff how many people died in sectarian conflicts in Asian history, but I know it's a number that would completely boggle most westerners who have this weird notion of Buddhism is this calm harmless religion no one really takes seriously or gets bent out of shape about-- an impression they only have from extremely modern history/exposure.

I deliberately stayed out of the Buddhism, ect as my intimate knowledge of that is rather low. The argument here seems to be that one Abrahamic religion being pitted against the others as if everyone hasn't and isn't doing the same thing.

- I wonder how many people, Christians in particular, would piss themselves if they had actually been made to study something beyond John 3.16. Siblings do have a long history of loathing one another. No one fights like family.

But isn't that the point of history, to learn from it and make a better future?

 

[luckynumbah7]

But isn't that the point of history, to learn from it and make a better future?

But you're not, because it isn't history. It's the present, and you've (along with some other choice candidates) been denying it for, what, [STRIKE]four[/STRIKE] pages now? My bad, it's a 5 page thread.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

People who think buddhism can be judged by buddhism today are pretty clueless or think Asia sprang into being at the time of WWII. I would not actually be so quick to say given all the sectarian and religious warfare across much of Asia in history that "xx religion we all know and obsess over right now is responsible for more violence than any other religion."

I couldn't even speculate off the cuff how many people died in sectarian conflicts in Asian history, but I know it's a number that would completely boggle most westerners who have this weird notion of Buddhism is this calm harmless religion no one really takes seriously or gets bent out of shape about-- an impression they only have from extremely modern history/exposure.

One only has to look at the plight of the muslim Rohingya at the hands of Buddhist monks in Myanmar to see what they can get up to still.

 

[mikey3000]

No deaie, what you two mentioned is history, in the past. Everyone else is witnessing the present so we can prepare for the future. Do try to keep up.

 

[xbuzzerx]

But isn't that the point of history, to learn from it and make a better future?

One of the (imho) most common myths out there right now is that the religions that (heavy quotes) "behave themselves" today, or conduct themselves civilly or what have you, all got to that point through a careful evolution of doctrine that favored more and more benign religion.

Bunk. One of the most prominent brands of Japanese Buddhism still in existence today is Nichiren, whose doctrines haven't changed since the 16th century. When they were killing people and dragging the families of political leaders they didn't like out of their homes and beating, raping and killing them.

Proponents of the "Christianity is good, Islam is evil" argument like to trot out the tired old "oh but christianity had a reformation, Islam didn't, therefore Chrisitianity became good and Islam is evil." As if Christianity as an organized religion, on its own, decided to up and reinvent itself. Broader secular and sectarian changes, disputes over the doctrine, disputes over the interpretations, conflicts between national monarchs and Rome and a million other considerations all contributed to the forcing of Christianity to re-invent itself to stay relevant.

What's relatively common to "harmless" religions today? Most of them can be found in prosperous, relatively stable societies with sufficient wealth for people to think about something other than "I could die tomorrow so I better pray." I suppose that's a kind way to put it. Another way to put it is that "harmless religion" exists in societies that are safe and spoiled and wealthy and frankly people don't need it. It's less and less relevant in a daily reality where you spend all day watching TV and checking your cellphone and aren't worried that someone's gonna bomb you and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

What's common to the parts of the Muslim world that create extremists? Autocratic, totalitarian oligarchy where a tiny number of people control, or attempt to maintain exclusive control, of virtually all of the wealth, resources, and power. And robe themselves up in religion and pay religious schools to teach the rabble that the reason their lives are so shit is because of bad things the West and infidels have done to you. Meanwhile these same rulers build indoor ski resorts in the desert and manmade resort islands with the money they're making controlling all of the oil resources. You think these people are really motivated by their Islam, any more than George W. Bush received a phone call from God in his head that told him to invade Iraq (a secular country that iron fisted its religious extremists)?

Anyone who looks back on history and thinks that conflict can be primarily understood as something that isn't a) power b) wealth and control of resources, and thinks instead it can be understood in terms of looking at the doctrine of this religion to understand how it was evil or that religion to understand how it was goodly, is the kind of simpleton rube Machiavelli wrote books to help elites and nobles control and manipulate.

 

[xbuzzerx]

No deaie, what you two mentioned is history, in the past. Everyone else is witnessing the present so we can prepare for the future. Do try to keep up.

Nothing changed in Buddhist doctrine from when it was violent to when it was peaceful. Other than translation and editing revisions, nothing changed in the Bible either from the days when people used it to justify slavery or sell their daughters or stoned prostitutes to death.

Kid yourself if you like.

 

[ChickenGuy]

Well we're doing our part in Ontario to strike back at Muslim Terrorism.

Apparently someone has torched a mosque in Peterborough.

Because you know.

The good white people of Ontario hate terrorism.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mosque-peterborough-fire-1.3320013

You always get these lone nutcases doing stuff like this. It doesn't reflect anything.

I wonder if gsdx knows about this and if it was near to him. He lives in Peterborough.

There was a case over here in the U.K. of someone leaving a pig's head at the entrance to a mosque, and another one of someone who put strips of bacon on a door handle or something. Someone got a jail sentence over it.

Far more relevant and pertinent is that Canada is part of the coalition air strikes. Is your new prime minister supportive of this action, or is he seeking to withdraw Canada from the fight against ISIS?

People who think buddhism can be judged by buddhism today are pretty clueless or think Asia sprang into being at the time of WWII. I would not actually be so quick to say given all the sectarian and religious warfare across much of Asia in history that "xx religion we all know and obsess over right now is responsible for more violence than any other religion."

I couldn't even speculate off the cuff how many people died in sectarian conflicts in Asian history, but I know it's a number that would completely boggle most westerners who have this weird notion of Buddhism is this calm harmless religion no one really takes seriously or gets bent out of shape about-- an impression they only have from extremely modern history/exposure.

We can talk history of religions until the cows come home, but what is important right now is what's happening in 2015 and what the years to come might hold.

The future is one of increasing agnosticism and increasing Christian secularisation, in sharp contrast to increasing Muslim extremism, radicalisation, sectarian violence, bloodshed, and war.

Even if we followed rareboy and embraced pacifism and stood down our military, and even if all Western nations withdrew completely, do you seriously think the problem of ISIS would ever magically disappear?

We'll be witnessing their slaughter for decades to come. We can either sit around and watch and do nothing, or we can try to ACT to defeat them.

 

[Telstra]

One only has to look at the plight of the muslim Rohingya at the hands of Buddhist monks in Myanmar to see what they can get up to still.

Horrible story.
We do not know who started this conflict, don't have much details, your knowledge about this is as good as on the news report.
Also how did the Rohingya muslims started living there in what century ... etc.
So mixing and comparing football and table tennis issues is avoiding the problem.

 

[xbuzzerx]

We can talk history of religions until the cows come home, but what is important right now is what's happening in 2015 and what the years to come might hold.

It doesn't matter if we're talking about why Kings really invaded the Holy Lands or why something happened yesterday.

If you run around spouting that something innate to the religion itself is the primary problem and thus the solution is to eradicate the religion, good luck.

 

[luckynumbah7]

No deaie, what you two mentioned is history, in the past. Everyone else is witnessing the present so we can prepare for the future. Do try to keep up.

Current events were included. Reread. I made very sure to include that the current clime is no better in any direction you choose to look. Including your own backyard.

The only difference is now you have the tiniest smidgen of a possibility that your religion (and the people of the country by default) is an actual target instead of just Christianity targeting others. Which you still haven't acknowledged as a continuous, current thing.

Some examples of the same are quite specific from a few others on here. One on the front page, even!

 

[luckynumbah7]

Nothing changed in Buddhist doctrine from when it was violent to when it was peaceful. Other than translation and editing revisions, nothing changed in the Bible either from the days when people used it to justify slavery or sell their daughters or stoned prostitutes to death.

Kid yourself if you like.

I really dislike it when people don't know their own religion.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Current events were included. Reread. I made very sure to include that the current clime is no better in any direction you choose to look. Including your own backyard.

The only difference is now you have the tiniest smidgen of a possibility that your religion (and the people of the country by default) is an actual target instead of just Christianity targeting others. Which you still haven't acknowledged as a continuous, current thing.

Some examples of the same are quite specific from a few others on here. One on the front page, even!

As usual with western people, Africa doesn't exist at all because the news doesn't press it directly into their eyeballs. No oil there, after all. Or white people. So we can very conveniently not talk about what the Christian regimes have been doing there to people-- often with the missionary & financial & political international support of Christian organizations based in the U.S. and western countries.

 

[mikemizanin729]

Does anyone care about Madonna in tears over this mess...??? The poor woman broke down at her concert.

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...s-Shootings-quot-we-will-not-be-silenced-quot

 

[ChickenGuy]

It doesn't matter if we're talking about why Kings really invaded the Holy Lands or why something happened yesterday.

If you run around spouting that something innate to the religion itself is the primary problem and thus the solution is to eradicate the religion, good luck.

My solution is not remotely to eradicate the religion. You're putting words in my mouth.

You're also avoiding answering my question.

Two-parter:

What is your solution to tackling and destroying ISIS in 2016, 2017, 2018?

What is your solution to preventing in people's minds the ideology of extreme Islamist jihadist hatred?

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

We can talk history of religions until the cows come home, but what is important right now is what's happening in 2015 and what the years to come might hold.

The future

wot?
_woooooooooooT?_

2015 a numba! it a means a noooooooothin _ future nothin too no figa fist part wot no second part a 3 part
" if a folkees runnin planet type same ting "
_OOOOOOOOOH NOOOOOOOOO_
£ not worree folkees runnin planet got play golf wot supa important £
ooh forgat

anyway

-million housepoints fa a winna -
£ buckat a fish? £
dunno fish on extinction thang
! pair socks wit fly ta da moon on um !
yea okay

tinku

" now ta drink a glass a wata "
it a not made 2015
_Koool_

 

[Telstra]

One of the (imho) most common myths out there right now is that the religions that (heavy quotes) "behave themselves" today, or conduct themselves civilly or what have you, all got to that point through a careful evolution of doctrine that favored more and more benign religion.

Bunk. One of the most prominent brands of Japanese Buddhism still in existence today is Nichiren, whose doctrines haven't changed since the 16th century. When they were killing people and dragging the families of political leaders they didn't like out of their homes and beating, raping and killing them.

Proponents of the "Christianity is good, Islam is evil" argument like to trot out the tired old "oh but christianity had a reformation, Islam didn't, therefore Chrisitianity became good and Islam is evil." As if Christianity as an organized religion, on its own, decided to up and reinvent itself. Broader secular and sectarian changes, disputes over the doctrine, disputes over the interpretations, conflicts between national monarchs and Rome and a million other considerations all contributed to the forcing of Christianity to re-invent itself to stay relevant.

What's relatively common to "harmless" religions today? Most of them can be found in prosperous, relatively stable societies with sufficient wealth for people to think about something other than "I could die tomorrow so I better pray." I suppose that's a kind way to put it. Another way to put it is that "harmless religion" exists in societies that are safe and spoiled and wealthy and frankly people don't need it. It's less and less relevant in a daily reality where you spend all day watching TV and checking your cellphone and aren't worried that someone's gonna bomb you and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

What's common to the parts of the Muslim world that create extremists? Autocratic, totalitarian oligarchy where a tiny number of people control, or attempt to maintain exclusive control, of virtually all of the wealth, resources, and power. And robe themselves up in religion and pay religious schools to teach the rabble that the reason their lives are so shit is because of bad things the West and infidels have done to you. Meanwhile these same rulers build indoor ski resorts in the desert and manmade resort islands with the money they're making controlling all of the oil resources. You think these people are really motivated by their Islam, any more than George W. Bush received a phone call from God in his head that told him to invade Iraq (a secular country that iron fisted its religious extremists)?

Anyone who looks back on history and thinks that conflict can be primarily understood as something that isn't a) power b) wealth and control of resources, and thinks instead it can be understood in terms of looking at the doctrine of this religion to understand how it was evil or that religion to understand how it was goodly, is the kind of simpleton rube Machiavelli wrote books to help elites and nobles control and manipulate.

All of what you wrote is true but all it does is just making excuses for the religious extremists to kill innocent people.

 

[xbuzzerx]

My solution is not remotely to eradicate the religion. You're putting words in my mouth.

You're also avoiding answering my question.

Two-parter:

What is your solution to tackling and destroying ISIS in 2016, 2017, 2018?

What is your solution to preventing in people's minds the ideology of extreme Islamist jihadist hatred?

My posts have repeatedly identified the House of Saud as the #1 part of a long-term solution.

It's also the thing we're least likely to upset the status quo about because too many western elites owe too much of their fortune to that relationship.

So instead, we will just play whackamole with the "horrid regime of the moment." We've been doing this for a century or so now, your country included in the mess. I'm sure a lot of people get rich off it but you notice the problem never seems to get any better?

 

[xbuzzerx]

All of what you wrote is true but all it does is just making excuses the religious extremists to kill innocent people.

No, it doesn't. And wasn't intended to.

It was intended to point out the stupidity of getting together in a circle jerk and tell each other that just one specific religion is the problem and that it explains everything wrong, that other religions don't have the capacity for this behavior, that the extremists of other religions apparently listen to the doctrines that say don't kill, and that you can actually "fight a religion."

All of which are stupid.

 

[luckynumbah7]

As usual with western people, Africa doesn't exist at all because the news doesn't press it directly into their eyeballs. No oil there, after all. Or white people. So we can very conveniently not talk about what the Christian regimes have been doing there to people-- often with the missionary & financial & political international support of Christian organizations based in the U.S. and western countries.

Don't even get me started on those bastards. From the withholdings of resources to rape I'd like to personally have some alone time with the lot of 'em.

 

[Vitamin]

My solution is not remotely to eradicate the religion. You're putting words in my mouth.

You're also avoiding answering my question.

Two-parter:

What is your solution to tackling and destroying ISIS in 2016, 2017, 2018?

What is your solution to preventing in people's minds the ideology of extreme Islamist jihadist hatred?

Your solution is immediately null due to it's impracticability. People are not going to stop being inspired by their religious beliefs just because of Islamic terrorism or ancient examples of Christian terrorism. Deal with it.