Extreme right wing populism is rising in Europe... What can we do to stop it?

[unloadonme]

Of course it's a benefit, unless you think that parochialism and nationalism are great virtues.

Really? So presumably you also think that the US should take down its border and allow as many Mexicans as may wish to to move to Oregon no questions asked? And the state will find homes and jobs for them, treat them when they're sick, pay benefits when they're unemployed and educate their children. Is that all OK too?

 

[Kulindahr]

Really? So presumably you also think that the US should take down its border and allow as many Mexicans as may wish to to move to Oregon no questions asked? And the state will find homes and jobs for them, treat them when they're sick, pay benefits when they're unemployed and educate their children. Is that all OK too?

The parallel is with the states -- and however much I think Californians moving to Oregon are screwing the place up, I still see the benefit.

 

[unloadonme]

The parallel is not with the states. Europe is not one country yet. This is about people who are allowed to cross international borders.

 

[pat grimshaw]

The parallel is with the states -- and however much I think Californians moving to Oregon ...

I bet you had a different opinion when you saw the Japanese dropping bombs on Oregon.

 

[Nishin]

The parallel is not with the states. Europe is not one country yet. This is about people who are allowed to cross international borders.

I think it is... Of course the definition of what the word country means differs, but there is no doubt in my mind that there is a similar idea between the European Union and the United States of America... as a mainland european that's what I feel anyway, being a islander with your own currency different from the rest of the EU, it may be harder to grasp for you...

Of course there is much more cultural diversity in Europe than in the US, for obvious reasons, but I don't think it should prevent from trying and unite under common ground, as long as people of Europe are willing to. And once economical disparity is levelled within Europe's borders, you won't have to fear invasions from Poles or Romanians (whoever you were targeting) on "your land" any more...

 

[pat grimshaw]

Nishin, you can't 'level' economical disparity.

Everyone who tried to do so has failed.

 

[palbert]

I bet you had a different opinion when you saw the Japanese dropping bombs on Oregon.

You never tire of referring to the Bombardment of Ellwood do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood

Hardly Oregon, where they bombed a forest.

 

[ChickenGuy]

Last time I checked, my country was the United Kingdom.

I get a little irritated by people living both in the United States and also in mainland Europe presuming to TELL me that my country is now this manufactured federal bureaucratic nightmare that is the European Union.

It angers me no end. I consider myself both Scottish and British. I will NEVER consider myself European.

You can go and stick the E.U. up your arse.

 

[Kulindahr]

I bet you had a different opinion when you saw the Japanese dropping bombs on Oregon.

What fantasy have you crawled out of this time????

 

[Kulindahr]

Nishin, you can't 'level' economical disparity.

Everyone who tried to do so has failed.

It's actually harder to level economic disparity across a larger political unit with a single currency.

 

[Kulindahr]

You never tire of referring to the Bombardment of Ellwood do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood

Hardly Oregon, where they bombed a forest.

If you can call it "bombing".

 

[Kulindahr]

Last time I checked, my country was the United Kingdom.

I get a little irritated by people living both in the United States and also in mainland Europe presuming to TELL me that my country is now this manufactured federal bureaucratic nightmare that is the European Union.

It angers me no end. I consider myself both Scottish and British. I will NEVER consider myself European.

You can go and stick the E.U. up your arse.

THere are people in the US who feel the same way as far as the federal government and their own state.

 

[ChickenGuy]

THere are people in the US who feel the same way as far as the federal government and their own state.

Enough with this ridiculous and laughable attempt to compare European countries with U.S. states.

Europe has ALWAYS been nation-states, of different races and cultures, going back almost 2000 years.

The U.S. is a confederacy which emerged out of a group of British colonies gaining independence.

They are NOTHING similar. At all.

The REAL comparison is if an organisation had suddenly sprung up out of nowhere in Mexico City, called itself the N.A.U. and had the explicit and direct aim of having all countries from Canada down to Panama become a new single country, governed by an extra-national, quasi-governmental body with its own newly manufactured court, legislature, and executive.

How do you think U.S. citizens would react if the N.A.U. then superceded Congress and the Supreme Court?

And if the N.A.U. wanted the removal of the dollar and the introduction of the 'americano' currency?

And if the N.A.U. wanted to abolish immigration controls and have open borders with all of Central America?

You know exactly how outraged and furious they'd feel.

I feel the same way about the United Kingdom and the E.U.

I WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT.

 

[bankside]

bla bla. people around the world mostly want the same things: prosperity and health for their families. That alone is enough reason to want to be citizens of the same country. We have a common cause.

 

[Kulindahr]

Enough with this ridiculous and laughable attempt to compare European countries with U.S. states.

Europe has ALWAYS been nation-states, of different races and cultures, going back almost 2000 years.

The U.S. is a confederacy which emerged out of a group of British colonies gaining independence.

They are NOTHING similar. At all.

The REAL comparison is if an organisation had suddenly sprung up out of nowhere in Mexico City, called itself the N.A.U. and had the explicit and direct aim of having all countries from Canada down to Panama become a new single country, governed by an extra-national, quasi-governmental body with its own newly manufactured court, legislature, and executive.

How do you think U.S. citizens would react if the N.A.U. then superceded Congress and the Supreme Court?

And if the N.A.U. wanted the removal of the dollar and the introduction of the 'americano' currency?

And if the N.A.U. wanted to abolish immigration controls and have open borders with all of Central America?

You know exactly how outraged and furious they'd feel.

I feel the same way about the United Kingdom and the E.U.

I WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT.

There are a LOT of people who think that's already going on. Proposals for things like a joint continental security system feed it.

 

[Kulindahr]

bla bla. people around the world mostly want the same things: prosperity and health for their families. That alone is enough reason to want to be citizens of the same country. We have a common cause.

Once we have far more severe strictures in place ensuring that government is actually the servant and knows it and accepts as a primary function the vigorous protection of individual rights, it will be time to go for broader unity. Until then, we have a common cause in being vigilant against right-wing extremism, wherever.

 

[Nishin]

Last time I checked, my country was the United Kingdom.

I get a little irritated by people living both in the United States and also in mainland Europe presuming to TELL me that my country is now this manufactured federal bureaucratic nightmare that is the European Union.

It angers me no end. I consider myself both Scottish and British. I will NEVER consider myself European.

You can go and stick the E.U. up your arse.

There are a few things that bother me with your line of thoughts:

You say you consider yourself both Scottish and British... aren't they going to secede in a few months? Which then will you consider yourself? Are they mutually exclusive? If not, how do considering yourself belonging to one or two nationalities prevents from also feeling European?
(Note that I am NOT telling you that you MUST feel European... I'm just curious to know/understand what prevents you from feeling European... when you do live in Europe)...

Also what federal bureaucratic nightmare ere you talking about? Could you give us precise examples in your daily life of ho the EU made it more difficult/troublesome?

Nishin, you can't 'level' economical disparity.

Everyone who tried to do so has failed.

Pat I didn't mean "level" as in absolute equality (1=1) but as in when people feel they can make a decent living in their original location and don't need to get elsewhere on economical ground only, ie I think in the US different states have different standard costs of life but you don't see the whole population of say Mississippi or Arkansas flock to Maryland or New Jersey...

 

[medic1]

^You are correct in that Scotland will be holding a referendum on independence in Sept. However, the chance of stable-minded Scots voting for independence, are slim to none.
I live in Edinburgh, here just now there are a lot of misinformed Scots, touting a "Braveheart syndrome", they have not researched the implications of an independent Scotland. To be blunt, we would be fucked. Like ChickenGuy, i consider myself a Scot first and foremost. However i believe our Act of the Union, with England and Wales, was the correct decision. Yes. We are an Island, and contrary to popular believe, we are proud to be so. Not many "British" look on themselves as "European". We do get mightily pissed off, when other nationalities, enforce changes to our judiciary system, as for health and welfare immigrants, we are a small island, and enough is enough.
There comes a time for triage, and that time is fast approaching.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

^You are correct in that Scotland will be holding a referendum on independence in Sept. However, the chance of stable-minded Scots voting for independence, are slim to none.
I live in Edinburgh, here just now there are a lot of misinformed Scots, touting a "Braveheart syndrome", they have not researched the implications of an independent Scotland. To be blunt, we would be fucked. Like ChickenGuy, i consider myself a Scot first and foremost. However i believe our Act of the Union, with England and Wales, was the correct decision. Yes. We are an Island, and contrary to popular believe, we are proud to be so. Not many "British" look on themselves as "European". We do get mightily pissed off, when other nationalities, enforce changes to our judiciary system, as for health and welfare immigrants, we are a small island, and enough is enough.
There comes a time for triage, and that time is fast approaching.

I know you are clearly feeling confident that No will win, but just a quick question - what will you do if people do vote yes? Will you move down south?

We do get mightily pissed off, when other nationalities, enforce changes to our judiciary system, as for health and welfare immigrants, we are a small island, and enough is enough.
There comes a time for triage, and that time is fast approaching.

Where do you stand on the West Lothian question and the fact that Scottish MPs can vote on laws, such as raising tuition fees or charges on prescriptions, that only effect English people? Is that not forcing laws on us? I mean currently Scotland has a disproportionately high number of MPs in Westminster.

 

[Nishin]

We do get mightily pissed off, when other nationalities, enforce changes to our judiciary system, as for health and welfare immigrants, we are a small island, and enough is enough.
There comes a time for triage, and that time is fast approaching.

As I asked ChickenGuy, would you provide with specific examples of such changes affecting your daily life and how bad they are? I am unable to understand your point without illustration...

Regarding immigration, don't you think the best way to avoid it is by ensuring that people who emigrate do not feel like they have to do so? Do you really think that leaving the EU will stop immigration??