Extreme right wing populism is rising in Europe... What can we do to stop it?

[medic1]

I know you are clearly feeling confident that No will win, but just a quick question - what will you do if people do vote yes? Will you move down south?

Yes, i would.



Where do you stand on the West Lothian question and the fact that Scottish MPs can vote on laws, such as raising tuition fees or charges on prescriptions, that only effect English people? Is that not forcing laws on us? I mean currently Scotland has a disproportionately high number of MPs in Westminster.

Under current Parliamentary regulations, Scottish MP's have the right to cast their vote on any motion going through the house. You mention Scots MP's "forcing" laws on the English, how about i counter with English MP's "forcing" legislation on we Scots?
Yes. We do have a "number" of Scots MP's in Westminster, as we should. After all it is CENTRAL Government for the UK. However, we have nowhere near enough to "push" through any anti-English legislation, on our own merit. It was our own "House" that passed free medication for all, as it was our own "House" that recently passed legislation, giving local councils the power to put a stop to the so called
bed-room tax. As a United Kingdom, despite our differences, we are a stronger country.

 

[Nishin]

Where do you stand on the West Lothian question and the fact that Scottish MPs can vote on laws, such as raising tuition fees or charges on prescriptions, that only effect English people? Is that not forcing laws on us? I mean currently Scotland has a disproportionately high number of MPs in Westminster.

I never heard of that West Lothian question before, thank you that's very interesting and poses similar questions to those at stakes with the EU.

Obviously I do not agree with every decision made by the EU, but I'm equally not ok with every decision made by my country's own government , yet I am not going to secede from it and declare my flat an independent republic or something... I will try and influence the decisions made by my vote.

What often bothers me with the UK is how they seem to want to get the benefits only but not the disadvantages that may accompany being in the EU, I do not like that spirit.
Why did they make the choice to be part of it in the first place (by 2 to 1 if I recall correct)??
If they don't want in, they have every right to leave, I have no problem with that...

But if they want in they have to accept certain things or try to change them from within. That's what the extreme right is trying to do, although I see it more like an attempt at sabotage from the inside (trojan horse style) rather than a genuine interest in bettering Europe's people condition.

 

[medic1]

As I asked ChickenGuy, would you provide with specific examples of such changes affecting your daily life and how bad they are? I am unable to understand your point without illustration...

Regarding immigration, don't you think the best way to avoid it is by ensuring that people who emigrate do not feel like they have to do so? Do you really think that leaving the EU will stop immigration??

European Regulations, play a major part of our everyday life, ranging from EU laws regarding small shop-owners, to Courts in another Country "Voiding" rulings made by even our own Supreme Court.
As for immigration, you have to realise just how small we are as a nation, we are at "bursting" point with the amount of immigrants who come here, mainly because we are seen as a soft touch because of our "once" generous welfare state. I work in the local community, in the health field. I cannot get the funding for some of my most ill patients, this is mainly due to the strain placed on our NHS by "Health" immigrants. No, i do not feel that leaving the EU would stop immigration, though if we had control of our own borders again, it would be drastically reduced. I do wish to point out that i am not a proponent of leaving The EU, i do however believe that changes have to be made
both in relation to free travel and border controls.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Under current Parliamentary regulations, Scottish MP's have the right to cast their vote on any motion going through the house. You mention Scots MP's "forcing" laws on the English, how about i counter with English MP's "forcing" legislation on we Scots?
Yes. We do have a "number" of Scots MP's in Westminster, as we should. After all it is CENTRAL Government for the UK. However, we have nowhere near enough to "push" through any anti-English legislation, on our own merit. It was our own "House" that passed free medication for all, as it was our own "House" that recently passed legislation, giving local councils the power to put a stop to the so called
bed-room tax. As a United Kingdom, despite our differences, we are a stronger country.

I am not suggesting that you push anti-English legislation at the moment (nor ever really), just questioning whether they should be able to vote on issues that do not effect them - which is the current situation.

 

[medic1]

I am not suggesting that you push anti-English legislation at the moment (nor ever really), just questioning whether they should be able to vote on issues that do not effect them - which is the current situation.

I know you are not suggesting that Scots Mp's "push" anti-English legislation. Though as members of The House of Commons, they have every right to cast their ballot on any motion, whether that ballot affects Scotland or not, after all English Mp's have cast their ballots on legislation, that affected the Scots first, the poll tax being a prime example.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

I know you are not suggesting that Scots Mp's "push" anti-English legislation. Though as members of The House of Commons, they have every right to cast their ballot on any motion, whether that ballot affects Scotland or not, after all English Mp's have cast their ballots on legislation, that affected the Scots first, the poll tax being a prime example.

Sure but that effected us down here as well. There were a number of Scottish MPs who voted to raise tuition fees for English students alone, safe in the knowledge that the UK will fund all Scottish university students.

 

[medic1]

Yes. You are correct, though i think you will find it was the SNP who brought in no tuition fees for Scottish students attending Scottish Universities. I think we can both agree that no-one should have to pay for a higher education.
The system is by no means infallible, though as part of the UK, we should have a say in the how, where and when. Here we are banging on about Scotland, when the north of England is being just as badly mismanaged by the "Home-County's" mindset of this present government.

 

[Disturbance]

Nope. Please don't do anything, especially if you are not European. Mind your own bussiness and we shall do the same. Thanks.

 

[ChickenGuy]

There are a few things that bother me with your line of thoughts:

You say you consider yourself both Scottish and British... aren't they going to secede in a few months? Which then will you consider yourself? Are they mutually exclusive? If not, how do considering yourself belonging to one or two nationalities prevents from also feeling European?

Much the same as you (if I remember correctly) once said you were Breton - a region with its own local language and culture - much like Scotland. So we can both identify with our local regions, and also our country. I will still feel Scottish and British if independence goes through.

Where we differ is, for some reason, you seem to feel much less affinity and connection and pride with France. If I were French, I'd feel just as much animosity to the E.U. and my wish would be for all decisions to be made by the French parliament and government.

(Note that I am NOT telling you that you MUST feel European... I'm just curious to know/understand what prevents you from feeling European... when you do live in Europe)...

I live in the geographic area that is the European continent.

Your definition of 'European' is probably 'citizen of the European Union'.

Also what federal bureaucratic nightmare ere you talking about? Could you give us precise examples in your daily life of ho the EU made it more difficult/troublesome?

Petty little directives and legislation are constantly mandated by the E.U. in a crass attempt to PRETEND Europe is a single country. Products labelled formerly 'Made in U.K.' are now 'Made in E.U.' Then more directives for weights and measurements, directives for the E.U. flag to replace national flags on items.

I can see you identify with this notion, considering where you've said your 'Location' is under your avatar.

Oh and one last thing - just over a decade ago, I believe France had a referendum on one of the E.U. treaties. Along with I think either the Netherlands or Denmark, the French people voted 'No'.

Where have the referendums gone since? They WON'T listen. When the next treaty comes along, the E.U. bureaucrats in Brussels will do ALL in their power to make damn well sure no citizen in their oh-so-grand project gets a say. They don't know the meaning of the word 'NO'.

The arrogance of that fucking institution is beyond belief.

I DESPISE the European Union and I DO NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF IT.

I voted UKIP. Now give me, and every British citizen, a vote to get my country OUT.

 

[medic1]

I am English, i am British, I am European. I am all 3 of these and happy to be. Not all of those in the UK are anti-EU, it just seems that way on account that those who are, have the biggest gobs on them.

I am Scottish, i am British, and yes i am European. As i said in a previous post i am a proponent of the EU, just the same way as i am a proponent of a United Kingdom. Please do not think that my "ire", on certain aspects of the EU negates my views...........

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Petty little directives and legislation are constantly mandated by the E.U. in a crass attempt to PRETEND Europe is a single country. Products labelled formerly 'Made in U.K.' are now 'Made in E.U.' Then more directives for weights and measurements, directives for the E.U. flag to replace national flags on items.

This is one of those crazy misleading stories that the British press loves to print and its completely false. Currently no company has to print where anything was made with a label, but the EU has said will have to and that the label should be accurate. This has annoyed places like the UK, Germany and Italy, as many of their companies currently do use the label as a sign of quality - but its misleading. Many items simply put the country that the company is based in, and not the country that produces it. For example, if the cells of a hi-tech battery are produced in Germany but assembled in Tunisia, the label may have to say "Made in Tunisia".

Saying that, its already been rejected by the Council and won't come in.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Oh and one last thing - just over a decade ago, I believe France had a referendum on one of the E.U. treaties. Along with I think either the Netherlands or Denmark, the French people voted 'No'.

Where have the referendums gone since? They WON'T listen. When the next treaty comes along, the E.U. bureaucrats in Brussels will do ALL in their power to make damn well sure no citizen in their oh-so-grand project gets a say. They don't know the meaning of the word 'NO'.

This was the referendums over the European Union constitution(what is referred to as the Lisbon Treaty). Referendums are not legally binding and while a number of countries rejected it in its original form, it was later accepted by all the heads of state. A lot of the voting during it, was taken as an attempt to criticize their governments rather than actually interact with the issues they voted on (like most European election).

Still the big issue out of it was the supremacy of European Law as well as enshrined Human Rights laws, which some as the European Union changing the laws of countries by taking on appeals above supreme courts of nation states. Still, I have not seen much from there that I would consider bad decisions - rather they do not take into account political squabbles going on in the countries themselves and make decisions

Again, don't take this as me being pro everything the EU does. I just don't believe we will be better outside it, instead we should reform it from within. It is possible to do so, we just need to stop the disinformation from both sides and decide on sound information what we would actually want to change. I think immigration is the biggest target at the moment, but I think this would go away once we get a government that is willing to increase spending and spark decent employment rather than zero hour contracts. People are worried about the cost of living and immigrants, despite most living in quite poor conditions in low paid jobs, are an easy target to blame.

 

[medic1]

^ I do agree with you, immigration is the largest concern to the British people, and honestly i can understand why. As for zero hours contracts, they are an inhumane way of employing someone. As i have stated previously, like you i am not pro everything the EU does. I do see and more importantly recognise the benefits of remaining a member state. We here in the UK, only have to look at Farage and his UKIP
party, to realise just how seriously the man on the street is taking this idiots "political" agenda. The Convention on Human Rights, was a landmark piece of legislation. Which is unfortunately being abused, by clever unscrupulous lawyers for the benefit of their clients. Nothing makes me as angry as a child-killer, taking our judiciary to this court, over claims that their human rights are being infringed upon. I also agree that many immigrants are an easy target to blame, though just as many, are here for a "free" ride. As you know our economy, though improving is still not up to the task of catering for such an influx, as we have seen over the last few years. I have no answer easy or otherwise, to the quandary that not only the UK, but other member states are facing, when it comes down to immigration. Though i am of the firm believe that this is tinder, just waiting for that spark to ignite the flames of "Nationalism".

 

[bankside]

Where do you stand on the West Lothian question and the fact that Scottish MPs can vote on laws, such as raising tuition fees or charges on prescriptions, that only effect English people? Is that not forcing laws on us? I mean currently Scotland has a disproportionately high number of MPs in Westminster.

We studied this in a course on UK government before the Scottish Parliament was even established. I think there are two possible answers:
Option A: give England its own Parliament with its own similar set of powers and let it decide those laws instead of Westminster (essentially creating a federal system like Canada)
Option B: require Scottish MPs to abstain in Westminster when voting on something which is devolved in Scotland but not elsewhere.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

I also agree that many immigrants are an easy target to blame, though just as many, are here for a "free" ride. As you know our economy, though improving is still not up to the task of catering for such an influx, as we have seen over the last few years. I have no answer easy or otherwise, to the quandary that not only the UK, but other member states are facing, when it comes down to immigration. Though i am of the firm believe that this is tinder, just waiting for that spark to ignite the flames of "Nationalism".

I don't think the economy as being created by the condem government would help most people even if immigration is lower - its all about a concentration of wealth in less and less hands. They will always point to growth in the economy, but we won't ever feel it under their government.
The free ride thing has been shown again and again to be false, EU immigrants are net contributors to the country. So while they may put a strain on the health service etc. the attack on them being here for the benefit is unfair and false. I know you will have a better understanding of the health service there and will listen to what you say, although I would guess Edinburgh is a place of fairly low immigration when compared to most places in England. When someone comes in to a hospital/GP/whatever else can you ask them where they are from? I'm guessing not, which means its impossible to say statistically how much people are using it.
The mass exploitation of European migrants is ignored by the press here. I mean just today the BBC found out that the major supermarkets were buying veg picked by eastern europeans in "slavery" (there words). These guys were being made to do 26 hour long shifts and getting paid a massive ten quid a week. While I had not seen or heard of anything that bad, I know enough east european guys being paid well below the minimum wage and being put up in really shitty living conditions.

 

[medic1]

Yes, we can and do ask a patients nationality, this is all part of the paperwork now involved in treating anyone. I think you may be surprised at just how many immigrants we have here in Edinburgh. We have an especially large Polish population. Again i agree with you on the living and working conditions of many immigrants. At the same time, many of our street beggars are either Romanian or Polish, there are two sides to every coin. I think we have more in common, than you realise when we are discussing this issue.

 

[Kulindahr]

Interesting how a discussion of right-wing populism has become one concerning the merits of the EU.

 

[medic1]

^Not really, when the original question was about right-wing populism in Europe.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Yes, we can and do ask a patients nationality, this is all part of the paperwork now involved in treating anyone. I think you may be surprised at just how many immigrants we have here in Edinburgh. We have an especially large Polish population. Again i agree with you on the living and working conditions of many immigrants. At the same time, many of our street beggars are either Romanian or Polish, there are two sides to every coin. I think we have more in common, than you realise when we are discussing this issue.

In Holland we say "Is something stolen? Look for it in Polan(d)"...

 

[Disturbance]

In Holland we say "Is something stolen? Look for it in Polan(d)"...

And we say, look for it among the gypsies.