failure

[JackFTwist]

friends,

I have failed. I have not been a voice of reason for Obama. I have done hm no good.

The Clinton people despise me and reject anything that I say out of hand.

I tried to do better.

I failed miserably.

I am very sorry.

 

[MystikWizard]

"My Friends, it is well known that Al Qaeda is going into Iran and returning. Everyone knows that. It is all over the Media. Just like everyone knew that Iraq was training Al Qaeda and providing sanctuary to them."

Sorry, I had to digress for a moment when you started it out with "friends".

Don't be so hard on yourself. When people want to elect a Woman President and are Hell-Bent on doing so at all costs, for personal reasons ... this is the kind of thing you need to expect. I would not say you failed. Some people just don't like hearing the truth.

 

[syntax]

Jack, I wasn't a target of your ire, but I was affected by it. In the short time I've posted in this forum, I've been disappointed by the sniping and rancor (I've also contributed to it). Recently, however, I've noticed that the tone is beginning to change and many posters are engaging in more reasoned and reasonable debate. Several threads have emerged where posters are arguing and disagreeing, but doing so civilly. The Obama-Clinton divide here is no doubt reflective of the broader debate in the rest of the country. Perhaps a change of tone can be achieved there as well.

I have no reason to accept or decline your apology, but I'll thank you for making it. I'll add mine as well to anyone I have offended with personal attacks.

 

[iman]

Don't be so hard on yourself. When people want to elect a Woman President and are Hell-Bent on doing so at all costs, for personal reasons ... this is the kind of thing you need to expect. I would not say you failed. Some people just don't like hearing the truth.

That's a pretty telling statement. Most of us have gotten past race and gender. Gay men that have an understandable insecurity about their masculinity need to get past their fear and discomfort with woman just as Obama's "typical white person" grandmother needs to get past her fear of black men.


And Jack, my primary is coming up and I remain undecided, so keep trying.

 

[MystikWizard]

That's a pretty telling statement. Most of us have gotten past race and gender. Gay men that have an understandable insecurity about their masculinity need to get past their fear and discomfort with woman just as Obama's "typical white person" grandmother needs to get past her fear of black men.


And Jack, my primary is coming up and I remain undecided, so keep trying.

Um, no you haven't either. Does Reverend Wright ring a bell to you since I see several of your posts in the Reverend Wright threads in the last few days. Or does it only count when the Obama supporters fight back against the constant Clinton attacks? I see you like to dole out your share of free passes to the Hillary supporters, though. They can do whatever the Hell they want, apparently.

 

[texpatriot]

friends,

I have failed. I have not been a voice of reason for Obama. I have done hm no good.

The Clinton people despise me and reject anything that I say out of hand.

I tried to do better.

I failed miserably.

I am very sorry.

Do you need any more nails? How's the view from up there?

Don't we already have enough martyrs here?

Please forgive me, but I doubt your sincerity.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's amazing that Sen. Obama's supporters back him because of the individual...but Sen. Clinton's supporters back her because of her gender.

Some do. And some of Obama's supporters support him because he's black.

 

[byro]

friends,

I have failed. I have not been a voice of reason for Obama. I have done hm no good.

The Clinton people despise me and reject anything that I say out of hand.

I tried to do better.

I failed miserably.

I am very sorry.

Jack, I take your apology at face value, don't think you've nailed yourself to any cross, agree with syntax (surprise surprise), and think the fact that you feel badly about the tone of some of your posts is a reflection of your true self and one which does you great honor. I admire your courage, both in fighting so hard for what you believe in (down to defending Jeremiah Wright, which is clearly an unpoular position) and your courage in apologizing for your approach. I said it in a different thread: Now THAT's a man!

 

[White Eagle]

JackFTwist
When this election process got underway I was on the Hillary team. I thought Obama was too inexperienced for the job. He should wait for later.
But somewhere down the road I saw how Hillary and her followers started throwing the mud and I changed my mind. A lot of the change came from the Jubbers that spoke of their reasons for following Obama. I can't say it was you, but it very well could have. I do remember those long long threads of everything Obama by you. So maybe, maybe. Don't be so hard on yourself. You probably did some good somewhere. I know I've seen it on other subjects.

 

[springboksfan]

To be completely honest, Jack, I'd much rather see your posts (even those with 6-foot wide pictures of Deadwings rings!) than another foaming at the mouth piece from Lost and his shadow. Don't worry about it. Keep doing what you're doing.

 

[construct]

Jack,

You and I agree on far more points than we disagree on, and I tend not to focus on the points where we disagree. I think your posts supporting Sen. Obama have been a great contribution. If I would have said things differently or been more restrained, that's just a difference in personality I guess. It's certainly not a moral disagreement.

Add me to the list of those who want to see you unapologetic and unmodified.

 

[Agent-Neon]

I enjoyed our exchange in the Wright thread, I thought we kept it civil and fairly balanced. I will admit it was much more stimulating than one of Lost Lover's twenty threads concerning Senator Clinton's socks and how they are the same type that Bush wears - or whatever he drawls on about now, I stopped reading them.

Personally, I find threads that denigrate an opposing candidate rather than promote the one which the OP supports, to be vapid, boorish and not conducive to discussions of any substance. If you browse through the last few pages of this board, you will see that quite a few threads fit this criteria.

 

[JackFTwist]

friends,

I have failed. I have not been a voice of reason for Obama. I have done hm no good.

The Clinton people despise me and reject anything that I say out of hand.

I tried to do better.

I failed miserably.

I am very sorry.

earlier today when I write this my mind was in a different place than it is now but the reality remains the same -

I posted perhaps hundreds if not dozens of posts that had no comment at all - simply a speech or an illustrative story. I posted links ti things and said quite little if anything, wanting to just get the info out there - and was bashed by some for that, not giving snippets and one-liners so that people would not have to read something long as if this is short attention span theatre.

I have a umber of posts with just a line or two of comment, in some I had to struggle to get to ten words minimum required

in some I have been in the rough and tumble of debate; which reading this thread it is clear that is what I am solely thought of -

and in regrtting thay I am told

Please forgive me, but I doubt your sincerity.

.

This was never a goodbye thread, it was what it was, what it said ir was.

thanks for the kind comments along the way

I suspect that when I see injustice, bullshit flung, pure cheap shot, I will jump in again and again and again - I despise lies and word of injustice and distortion

when I had my all Obama column - for those who said he never said anything - and I posted his speeches, his positions, his life story, no editorial content, I was ridiculed and accused of spamming and told my mods that did we really need to post an entire speech - my thought was yes, the sound bites in Readers Digest vesions to do not do iy = that rather left me tell the cheap shot attack that it was a cheap shot attack and thus that made for a bad combative Jack.

And that bad Jack has held his tongue - not commented on the obvious inability or refusal to undertsnad something said and make the most absurd comments - not a judgment on their beliefs, one of my closest friends is for Hillary and we have a great time discussing that over breakfast always loving each other, but the quality of the Clinton supporters her seems so low in terms of knowledge, of understanding, of looking at a whole and making a choice therein, of what os practical and real in the political world , rushes to assumptions and trashing on Obama and Obama's supporters and then claim they are victims after every insult and personal comment made - I've lost respect for all of them.

Funny that working in the party I sit with people with all kinds of competing interests and we do it without rancor, with respect, have our votes, and move on and ally ourselves with those we just opposed, on another issue

that is not possible here for whatever reason. Some of ideas for posts have been buried in the bottom of the sea - they were great ideas, but not right for this place.

I am sorry that I failed at the beginning and now to catch the tenor of this place. I am sorry that I have been unable to find a way to encourage people to listen to a tape that will show them something different - a failure at getting people to look at other possibilities -

and these failures at HUB hurt because I don't have them elsewhere. One one of my sports boards I am always praised for being open to all the political ideas that gte put out and being accepting of various beliefs at off with my own while I explain my own point of view/ In tne real life I am known ad Mr Affable, always easy yo talk to

Why is this so long. Maybe because I am trying to talk out loud over what pained me this morning. So many here speak of such negative stereotypes of the others, not honestly accepting the realities of their own candidate and campaign - always flawed, we are human - while out with knives for the others.

This is not a safe environment. No way can I say, Obama sure messed that up today... those things happen - with being ripped by vultures. No one, perhaps for that reason, would say, Hillary sure blew that today. I could not say to Lance, that is a bit over the top and have Lance say yeah, I know, let me restate it - or vice versa to be clear - because the tenor iof this place would interpret that as weakness, inthat we are seen to need to be at war ar all times.

We don't listen, we don't speak honest, it is got-ya politics, this forum is a terrible waste of what a real discussion should be where we could talk honest;y without the got-yas and the attacks.

I don't know how we could ave changed it so i am looking at mods here. I don't know what I could have done, i have been a failure. And on my being a failure, there I rest.

Vyber politiics is so unreal. I have a dear friend who voted against me for a key party position because her union rep had a rhing against me. That really hurt. Words were never exchanged. Later on I served as her vice chair when she was retiiring as chair she engineered my moving up to chat. It was politics, iy was not personal,and these people with whomI have fought bitter fights, we are all friends and love each other. The lack of reality on the cyber form is perhaps it human weakness.

I havew failed here to be of ay use, yo be any good. My words are rejected by one of our posters. Others would say it was being angry at things which I felt deserved anger.
I remain lost as how to do any good here. I am just really lousy. I have guilt and it appears that I alone have guilt. Maybe I am wrong and shoud come back with the mulri-posting scorched earth attacks of __________, __________, and _____________ and others for the over th top fantastical twisting of what was tp belittle, ridicule others.

But that is not me,

I am huriing over this. I shall be laughed at for it. This is not a "good bye" thread. This is a thread by one totally worn by the hostiliity levels to which I,and so very many, have risen. There is maybe only one or possibly ywo people who can read that and be excluded. Almost all who read this fair, you have been a part of the problem too.

I am sorry got my failures.

 

[byro]

For what it's worth, Jack, I've been laying off the boards today because I'm not feeling great -- kind of flu-y -- and I think one of the reasons my immune system got compromised is because I had become too heavily invested, emotionally speaking, in the forums lately. A little obsessive and a little too weirdly invested. I've never been good at investing myself deeply in something without making myself vulnerable, either emotionally or physically (one of many reasons I would make a lousy presidential candidate -- what's the opposite of teflon, velcro?). And now I'm mad at myself for letting myself be worn down by, what? a series of cyberspace forums?? It's just plain silly that I've allowed that to happen and I'm actually embarrassed.

Maybe it's a similar thing with you. Maybe you care too much and have to learn to pace yourself. Maybe you need to withdraw from the forums for a while. Or maybe you just have to realize that these forums are open to anyone and everyone, smart and stupid alike, caring and careless alike, invested and oblivious alike... There's a hell of a lot of flotsam and jetsam that's washed around here and much of it is trash. If you're looking for something that's genuinely probing and penetrating at JUB you're more likely to find it in the porn pages than CE&P.

So just take all these forums for what their worth -- a bit of fun, the occasional new thing learned, the occasional incredibly bright or moving observation -- but not the ideal place in which to engage in reasoned debate with equally serious participants. I don't mean that in any way to be a dis of my fellow members, whom I genuinely enjoy and am occasionally dazzled by. I just mean this isn't exactly Harvard Law School or the Oxford University debating society. It's a free-for-all and sometimes the
most sensitive participants become the most bruised.

In the end, I suspect the turmoil you're feeling today is because you're not well-suited to the role you've been playing lately.

 

[construct]

Jack,

I can certainly acknowledge and affirm your feelings as expressed in your second post. They are yours, and you own them, and you express them, and I have sometimes felt similar feelings. I generally don't feel guilt about things I post here. When I post something that is uncharacteristically sharp, I generally feel ashamed rather than guilty. That's just one of the differences between you and me; it's not a judgment, just an observation. Those differences in personality are one of the reasons I feel at home here and stay around.

My own experience on this forum--It took me only a few days and one (very brief) interchange with General Alfie to have this place pretty much figured out--(almost) no vulnerabilities will be permitted! The tough contruct would be the one who would be on display (almost) all the time here. If I happen to be fearful that my emotions are about to carry me into a battle that I'm not sure I can win, I know it is time for me to shut my computer and go to dinner. The unbreachable wall will remain stolidly in place. No one will touch my skin, let alone get under it.

Your post is an invitation to open a window in the walls. I hope it receives more general acceptance than my brief response here because you are right that the interchange here could be more human, relational, and personal if most of us weren't so damn mean.

 

[byro]

the interchange here could be more human, relational, and personal if most of us weren't so damn mean.

Amen and amen.