Ferguson Grand Jury Results

[TX-Beau]

Really don't understand the US system. Surely there must be enough of a case for it to be put to a judge and jury in a trial?
If the outcome is no trial, then what are the chances of the officer who shot dead a 12 year old kid who was armed with a toy gun when it seems shooting unarmed adults is OK (as long as they are black).

The delay in announcing the verdict until 9pm really suggests that he will get away with it and they hope that it being cold outside will keep any rioting to a minimum (although I assume the mollys will warm the place up quick enough).

The function of the Grand Jury is to decide of there is reason to proceed to trial - and so the prosecutor can cover his ass. (grin) If the prosecutor doesn't want something to proceed top trial, and doesn't want to just refuse to prosecute, it's a nifty cop out.

This isn't the end legally, though you'd hardly know it, what with all the apocalyptic brimstone raining from the networks.

 

[TX-Beau]

BTW, this also doesn't count as double jeopardy, and the Prosecutor does have the right to re-present if more evidence comes to light (yeah like that's going to happen.)

 

[Stardreamer]

Really don't understand the US system. Surely there must be enough of a case for it to be put to a judge and jury in a trial?
If the outcome is no trial, then what are the chances of the officer who shot dead a 12 year old kid who was armed with a toy gun when it seems shooting unarmed adults is OK (as long as they are black).

The delay in announcing the verdict until 9pm really suggests that he will get away with it and they hope that it being cold outside will keep any rioting to a minimum (although I assume the mollys will warm the place up quick enough).

The purpose of a grand jury is to make that determination and it seems that there is not. There is a considerable amount of misinformation floating about on this case, most people have not heard all the facts as they have not all been released but have only heard bits and pieces filtered through rumor and speculative news reporting. Based on all the information that has leaked out when you sort through it, it seems there was a just a strong a case that the officer acted accordingly as there was that he did not.

 

[Stardreamer]

Yeah, this alone is suspect - but that part of the story is about as hidden(or buried, whichever you prefer) as the cops' whereabouts, even though the media couldn't help themselves to tell us the man is getting married.

Just how long does it take for a cop to call in a justified shooting? 3, 4, 5 seconds? Not calling in something like this for HOURS... is scary.

One, we don't know that he was lying in the street for 4 hours, as I said there is a lot of misinformation floating around in cases like this. Even if he was, it would have been part of the investigation not because the shooting wasn't called in, other units were there very shortly afterward. Given the uproar that could be foreseen arising and did, it would only make sense that the department would want to be extra through in the documenting the crime scene.

 

[TX-Beau]

The purpose of a grand jury is to make that determination and it seems that there is not. There is a considerable amount of misinformation floating about on this case, most people have not heard all the facts as they have not all been released but have only heard bits and pieces filtered through rumor and speculative news reporting. Based on all the information that has leaked out when you sort through it, it seems there was a just a strong a case that the officer acted accordingly as there was that he did not.

Seriously, the prosecution is completely in control of what the Grand Jury sees, so your entire argument rests on the character and agenda of the DA's office, and if THEY didn't want an indictment - there simply wasn't going to be one no matter the facts, "misinformation," sifting of this or that, or how much cock you got last month.

That DA doesn't exactly inspire confidence, nor does it seem the police department is above throwing out "misinformation" with the rest of them.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

One, we don't know that he was lying in the street for 4 hours, as I said there is a lot of misinformation floating around in cases like this. Even if he was, it would have been part of the investigation not because the shooting wasn't called in, other units were there very shortly afterward. Given the uproar that could be foreseen arising and did, it would only make sense that the department would want to be extra through in the documenting the crime scene.

Sorry, I don't buy that part. If he was laying in the street for that amount of time without any sort of notification - EMT to attempt revival, other cops to close off the scene, or the human decency to cover the body - it sends a strange message. I've heard of preserving the scene for evidence, but usually they call someone to assist in that.

 

[TX-Beau]

One, we don't know that he was lying in the street for 4 hours, as I said there is a lot of misinformation floating around in cases like this. Even if he was, it would have been part of the investigation not because the shooting wasn't called in, other units were there very shortly afterward. Given the uproar that could be foreseen arising and did, it would only make sense that the department would want to be extra through in the documenting the crime scene.

....It didn't happen but if it did it was justified...

Come on. Take your own advice and stop making apologia for the cops until YOU know something other than "misinformation."

 

[hotatlboi]

To me, the evidence and police animus was proven, when they let his body LIE IN THE STREET FOR FOUR AND A HALF FUCKING HOURS and wouldn't let EMT's or anybody else near.

Police TERRORISM against the citizens that they hate.

This post makes no sense. What good would EMTs have done? He was dead. If he had been alive, EMTs would obviously have transported him to a hospital. Since he was dead, and there was a potential crime scene, it makes sense to leave things undisturbed until the scene can properly be examined and documented.

 

[TX-Beau]

Great, presumably we will now get to see all the evidence they so carefully collected and preserved. It's CSI Mississippi!

 

[evanrick]

study the prosecutors statement, it does seem obvious that the use of the word "physical evidence" is code for a criminal act, and that criminal act (not the robbery) was assumed to be on the part of Michael Brown by the prosecutor, also known as the only reason officer wilson would have to avoid charges. the prosecutor didnt talk about why darren wilson shot michael brown. this article explains the simple terms that police may use to determine use of force.

there has been some speculation that Wilson did or did not know that brown was involved in a "felony" robbery, essentially giving Wilson a license to kill. the fact that authorities clarified that Wilson did have that knowledge after previous reports that they dont know if he had that knowledge seems an admission of guilt to me.

in essence, the use of force, thats nonsense. this was another unjustified killing by a renegade officer.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/7175967/darren-wilson-charges-michael-brown-ferguson

 

[hotatlboi]

To me the most interesting revelation in the whole press conference was the question of whether there were African American witness who testified that Brown charged the officer before the fatal shots were fired, to which he said yes. Unless he's flat out lying, that is significant.

The other significant thing to me though was that 12 shots were fired. To me that seems excessive. Why did a trained officer need 12 shots to incapacitate him?

 

[hotatlboi]

Yeah, this alone is suspect - but that part of the story is about as hidden(or buried, whichever you prefer) as the cops' whereabouts, even though the media couldn't help themselves to tell us the man is getting married.

Just how long does it take for a cop to call in a justified shooting? 3, 4, 5 seconds? Not calling in something like this for HOURS... is scary.

What are you talking about? Not called in for hours? A supervisor and an ambulance were on the scene within 3 minutes of his death.

timeline: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...el-brown-ferguson-missouri-timeline/14051827/

This is because it was "called in" while he was still alive.

 

[TX-Beau]

I think it's bullshit that they were trying to "preserve" anything, I think they were shitting their pants and freaking out. So what. Ultimately the amount of time they left him there isn't relevant to much.

What concerns me is that a lot of people seem to want to live in a society where the teenagers can be summarily shot. No matter how much dancing people do, that was excessive force. No matter how many excuses people make - if the Police can't deal with a situation like that without killing a teenager - there is something wrong in the Police Department.

The Cop isn't the one dead - or even shot at.

Rogue white cop kills black kid UNJUSTIFIABLY, community goes apeshit, parasites pile on. Not the first time, probably not the last.

 

[hotatlboi]

^ Completely agree. Police have gotten way too careless with deadly force.

Another one happened just this weekend.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...g-toy-gun-dies-after-cleveland-officer-shoots

Cops kill a 12 year old because he had a toy gun. Just disgusting.

 

[Stardreamer]

Seriously, the prosecution is completely in control of what the Grand Jury sees, so your entire argument rests on the character and agenda of the DA's office, and if THEY didn't want an indictment - there simply wasn't going to be one no matter the facts, "misinformation," sifting of this or that, or how much cock you got last month.

That DA doesn't exactly inspire confidence, nor does it seem the police department is above throwing out "misinformation" with the rest of them.

The DA and the Grand Jury, at least from what they are telling us are the only ones so far with all the information so you could be right. When I'm talking about misinformation I'm talking about the news reporting and what the public knows.

 

[hotatlboi]

The DA and the Grand Jury, at least from what they are telling us are the only ones so far with all the information

Actually they said the Feds had all the information also.

 

[Stardreamer]

....It didn't happen but if it did it was justified...

Come on. Take your own advice and stop making apologia for the cops until YOU know something other than "misinformation."

I'm not apologizing for anyone, just pointing out that the idea that it is not likely the body just sat there for 4 hours without a reason. The poster is trying to imply that the officer just sat there for four hours after the shooting without even calling in the shooting. Logically either the four hour figure is wrong or the was a reason for it.

 

[Stardreamer]

Actually they said the Feds had all the information also.

From what I've heard the Feds have concluded that there is not a case for a civil rights indictment either.

 

[TX-Beau]

From what I've heard the Feds have concluded that there is not a case for a civil rights indictment either.

I find it extremely unlikely that the Fed said anything of the kind - even if that's what they thought. Nor could I find any example on the net - source please, or you just impeached yourself as a spreader of misinformation.

 

[hotatlboi]

Interesting point raised by a law professor on MSNBC. Apparently Missouri state law allows police to use deadly force even if a suspect is fleeing. So even though it seems it was not the case (as was reported earlier) that he was running away and was shot in the back, even if that had been true it may not have been a crime even then for the officer to shoot under state law. That is pretty absurd.