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Ferguson Grand Jury Results

hotatlboi are you black? I know atlanta has a big black population I just want to make sure. I'm trying to get to know all the aa jub members.
 
Who said anything about a verdict?

The jury was called to decide probable cause, which there wasn't, so there was no bill for indictment. Verdict is the decision of guilt or innocence after a trial.
 
hotatlboi said:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...g-toy-gun-dies-after-cleveland-officer-shoots

Cops kill a 12 year old because he had a toy gun. Just disgusting.
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I'm not surprised after the Sandy Hook. And did you hear about the two 12 year old girls who tricked their friend into coming with them, and they stabbed her numerous times just for fun? Some toy guys do look real from a distance, and the last thing they wanted is another Sandy Hook. Still unacceptable but I think I know why.
 
TX-Beau said:
I find it extremely unlikely that the Fed said anything of the kind - even if that's what they thought. Nor could I find any example on the net - source please, or you just impeached yourself as a spreader of misinformation.
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You are right, which is why I intentionally phrased it as from what I have heard, far too much of the information and views being discussed has is just speculation based on what we have heard. That particular claim came to me second hand at a discussion on the subject at work.
 
The problem here is that this did not happen in cold blood, the first shots were fired during the struggle in the car, as evidenced by the powder residue on Brown and the blood and bullets found in the car. Wilson had blood on his uniform and had received some head injury. So far everyone who has seen all the evidence and testimony tends to say that it supports the officer's account. We now have the transcripts from the Grand Jury so perhaps we can start sorting it out.

Ferguson shooting: Details of grand jury investigation
Documents Released in the Ferguson Case
Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson
Pathologist says Brown autopsy quotes in Post-Dispatch were taken out of context

The Pathologist's correction is very enlightening of the situation, not even the experts are completely clear on what happened and one has to take the whole of the evidence into consideration. It is also interesting that they are now reporting that the officer did know of the robbery and that Brown may have been holding the cigar box. We are going to have to study these records from the Grand Jury to try and sort some of this out.
 
A few thoughts, after reading all of the above comments.....
1. OK, so the boy stole some cigarillos, and ended up dead. How sad is that?
2. I read somewhere that Wilson had called for back-up, and it arrived in a minute and a half....above someone comments that back up was there 3 minutes after Brown was dead.
3. Twelve shots were fired, six of which hit the victim.
4. Brown was unarmed, Wilson was a trained police officer with a gun, and mace(!). Gun vs. cigarillos.
5. Think for a moment....how many times would you have to be shot to before being incapacitated? Exactly.
6. Brown was 6'4" and 300 pounds. Wilson is 6'4 and 210 pounds.
7. Brown was killed 150 feet from the police SUV.

I can't help but believe that there was a way for Wilson to deal with a shoplifter without killing him.
 
Indeed, my take is that the evidence supported the officers account that Brown started the altercation and therefore the officer was justified in firing, however it is really hard to claim that shooting him 6 times was justified.

Whether or not a crime was committed would depend on missouri's laws on the use of that level of force by police. From what I've heard their laws are pretty absurd on that.
 
So in response to this grand jury decision Ferguson' shopping district was torched, much property damage, with rioting and looting. And who was fucked most? Local business owners now with wrecked or burned out shops who were more likely than not African American.... yeah, way to go showing up "the Man" by doing the damn same stupid thing to your own community that the urban riots of past years have done and making things worse for blacks, not better. Is their great injustice in the legal system, do blacks have valid reasons to demand reform ? ABSOLUTELY.... but in this case the truth may really be while tragic someone died, this was not merely a white racist cop just blowing away a stereotypical black hood for kicks. The truth may well be much grayer and the grand jury well be right in not finding the evidence compelling to move forward with the case. Their is great reason to push for reform, but Michael Brown's death , nor anyone's death, should result in a community being physically destroyed because the hotheads(who were most likely thrilled to get into smash and burn mode) took over and unleashed anarchy. I have no sympathy for anyone who took part in the looting and burning though... they didn't defend the community, they shamed it and took from the vast majority of the community who just want equal rights under the law for persons of color and who I have a lot of empathy for.
 
Stardreamer said:
The purpose of a grand jury is to make that determination and it seems that there is not. There is a considerable amount of misinformation floating about on this case, most people have not heard all the facts as they have not all been released but have only heard bits and pieces filtered through rumor and speculative news reporting. Based on all the information that has leaked out when you sort through it, it seems there was a just a strong a case that the officer acted accordingly as there was that he did not.
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But if it's that balanced, then it's the grand jury's duty to indict. They're not supposed to decide if he's guilty, just if there's sufficient question that a regular jury should get to decide.
 
TX-Beau said:
Seriously, the prosecution is completely in control of what the Grand Jury sees, so your entire argument rests on the character and agenda of the DA's office, and if THEY didn't want an indictment - there simply wasn't going to be one no matter the facts, "misinformation," sifting of this or that, or how much cock you got last month.

That DA doesn't exactly inspire confidence, nor does it seem the police department is above throwing out "misinformation" with the rest of them.
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According to the statement, the feds made sure that all the evidence anyone had was given to the grand jury.

OTOH, given how corrupt Holder is, I don't have a lot of confidence in that statement.
 
evanrick said:
study the prosecutors statement, it does seem obvious that the use of the word "physical evidence" is code for a criminal act....
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No, "physical evidence" doesn't mean there was a crime, it means there are physical items useful for determining if there was a crime.

MrPerfectMan said:
I'm not surprised after the Sandy Hook. And did you hear about the two 12 year old girls who tricked their friend into coming with them, and they stabbed her numerous times just for fun? Some toy guys do look real from a distance, and the last thing they wanted is another Sandy Hook. Still unacceptable but I think I know why.
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The reason is because cops these days are taught that their lives are more important than the citizens' who pay them. Serve the politicians, protect themselves.
 
Not only wasn't there a crime, there was no plausible reason to believe there was. If what the officer did should be a crime then change the law.
 
Alnitak said:
Not only wasn't there a crime, there was no plausible reason to believe there was. If what the officer did should be a crime then change the law.
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This is basically a bullshit position. You don't know anything, you weren't there, you haven't seen the evidence you weren't monitoring the police department. It's comforting, I'm sure to declare they should "change the law." Well, I think there is zero chance the people in Ferguson have the influence to do anything but get shat upon.

This incident isn't the reason there are riots, it's the proximate cause, being shat upon for decades is the reason.
 
Kulindahr said:
According to the statement, the feds made sure that all the evidence anyone had was given to the grand jury.

OTOH, given how corrupt Holder is, I don't have a lot of confidence in that statement.
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That's not very comforting, the Fed got it's evidence from the DA, no doubt a disinterested third party. They were saying today that the Fed is still investigating, I wonder exactly what that means, perusing the documents provided, or an actual investigation. I suspect that Justice for damn sure doesn't want to be seen agreeing with the Grand Jury.

The biggest victim in all of this is the community, raped by the Police, raped by the media, and I bet the Fed is next in line. The riots will die down, we'll all go back to talking about who Bill Cosby rufied, and nothing whatsoever will change.
 
Sausy said:
So in response to this grand jury decision Ferguson' shopping district was torched, much property damage, with rioting and looting. And who was fucked most? Local business owners now with wrecked or burned out shops who were more likely than not African American.... yeah, way to go showing up "the Man" by doing the damn same stupid thing to your own community that the urban riots of past years have done and making things worse for blacks, not better. Is their great injustice in the legal system, do blacks have valid reasons to demand reform ? ABSOLUTELY.... but in this case the truth may really be while tragic someone died, this was not merely a white racist cop just blowing away a stereotypical black hood for kicks. The truth may well be much grayer and the grand jury well be right in not finding the evidence compelling to move forward with the case. Their is great reason to push for reform, but Michael Brown's death , nor anyone's death, should result in a community being physically destroyed because the hotheads(who were most likely thrilled to get into smash and burn mode) took over and unleashed anarchy. I have no sympathy for anyone who took part in the looting and burning though... they didn't defend the community, they shamed it and took from the vast majority of the community who just want equal rights under the law for persons of color and who I have a lot of empathy for.
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YOU TELL'EM SAUCY! You call up Ferguson, and tell them they don't have YOUR sympathy - make sure you wag your finger and use your scolding voice, no doubt they will calm down immediately.

They riot in their own neighborhoods BECAUSE if they rioted int he DA's neighborhood they'd all be dead and you'd be in here saying they deserved it for attacking decent people.

They riot in the first place because they feel they've been fucked by the system that exploits them, the riots are a big fuck you to the system. Is it positive? No, but it was completely foreseeable and preventable and the system failed to do anything to engage these people in a positive manner.

Don't worry, when the cameras are off the cops will wade back in and make them pay for this as much as you could hope for.
 
TX-Beau said:
This is basically a bullshit position. You don't know anything, you weren't there, you haven't seen the evidence you weren't monitoring the police department. It's comforting, I'm sure to declare they should "change the law." Well, I think there is zero chance the people in Ferguson have the influence to do anything but get shat upon.

This incident isn't the reason there are riots, it's the proximate cause, being shat upon for decades is the reason.
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The jury was paraded by a pageant of 60 witnesses. I'm confident that was sufficient.

A crime must specifically be mentioned by statute. Not every wrong that occurs between two people is a crime, even if it should be. However, there is always the possibility of civil damages.
 
TX-Beau said:
YOU TELL'EM SAUCY! You call up Ferguson, and tell them they don't have YOUR sympathy - make sure you wag your finger and use your scolding voice, no doubt they will calm down immediately.

They riot in their own neighborhoods BECAUSE if they rioted int he DA's neighborhood they'd all be dead and you'd be in here saying they deserved it for attacking decent people.

They riot in the first place because they feel they've been fucked by the system that exploits them, the riots are a big fuck you to the system. Is it positive? No, but it was completely foreseeable and preventable and the system failed to do anything to engage these people in a positive manner.

Don't worry, when the cameras are off the cops will wade back in and make them pay for this as much as you could hope for.
Click to expand...

When people are so frustrated, and feel not only disenfranchised, but targeted and no on gives a FUCK, then they will resort to violence. It is the only option to voice their rage at being victimized by the very system that is there to "protect" them. A two-tiered system cannot work. The Ante-bellum South and Apartheid showed us that. Now, we say, demonstrate....but be polite. Practice restraint. Voice your concerns in a respectful manner. In our AMERIKA, if you are BLACK, QUEER, MUSLIM, JEW (uh-huh).....If you are DIFFERENT, you are by definition WRONG and should keep your head down and your mouth shut. If they beat you, arrest you, rip you off on your utilities, shoot your kid in cold blood, you should suck it up and write letters to the editor, maybe call your Congressman, Vote (with the proper ID and if you can leave your kids, or Mickey D lets you off your shift early). But don't do anything to keep the attention of the World focused on institutionalized HUMAN RIGHTS abuse in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. No, Sir! That happens in those far-off, foreign-sounding places. Ya'll got yer Constitution and Jesus Christ to protect you. If you fuck up and get shot, well, what wuz you doin, boy?
 
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