Food Safety

[jackoroe]

jack, if they are not doing their jobs due to lack of funding, then how is it logical that the best option is to get rid of them all together.

Its like saying you need to cut off your hand when you get arthritis.

The answer is to effectively manage these orgs and fund them properly, not kill the farm industry because their inspectors are overloaded.

as for allowing the industry to inspect itself? we all saw how well that worked for BP in the gulf of mexico.

Putting the foxes in charge of their own hen house is NOT the answer.

The issue is they aren't and haven't been doing their job for many years. The last document I could find shows the FDA to be requesting a 19% increase in their budget to address food safety issues in part.
http://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/reportsmanualsforms/reports/budgetreports/ucm153154.htm

Now because the democrats haven't managed to screw together a budget for some years now, it's difficult to determine if their request was granted or not. Last i checked the democrats ran everything in 2010, so the question begs do they really care about food safety or are they simply making a stink for political purposes again?

I don't believe in supporting failure. If the FDA wants to propose a budget in which they are prepared to guarantee food safety, I'd consider it. But the days of "We just need more money!" are over. We are spending billions on an agency, which everyone concedes, isn't doing it's job as evidenced by food safety issues for decades now.

Making private concerns criminally and civilly responsible for ensuring food safety would work far better than what we're doing now. The FDA fails at their primary task again and again, yet we continue to fund this government sponsored failure year after year. Where is their accountability? There is none. It's always someone or something else's fault. More money is always the answer. Sorry, that game is over.

 

[BostonPirate]

once again

For ANY of that to make sense you need me to pretend that I forgot or want to ignore the fact that the GOP filibustered all attempts of that congress from passing bills to fund the Gov't.

So last I checked, someone was trying but the GOP had the congress locked up.

That abuse of the filibuster needs to be curtailed by the voters. We need to elect only candidates who will remove that feature.

Then this legislature will begin to function in the higher chamber. Then we need to allow earmarks again, for the Speaker of the house to use as a means of infrastructure development and insurance of bipartisan support for realistic common sense actions.

The FDA is about three or four jumps away from the problem here, and putting an industry in charge of policing itself is foolish.

The FDA is accountable to the people of the USA, lastly, and they are demanding a safe food supply and that the GOP stop playing games with holding these programs hostage.

 

[Knucklehead]

And you can bet your sweet ass that both Democrats and Republicans will be dishing out those BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of tax-payer funded "Farm Subsidies" for Corporate Agriculture too, while the corporate lobbiest continue to water down "USDA Organic Standards."

Sure they will.Just ask Michelle Bachmann.Seems she's a big fan of socialism when it benefits her family farm..


http://www.politico.com/blogs/glenn...hmann_got_250k_in_federal_farm_subsidies.html

 

[jackoroe]

once again

For ANY of that to make sense you need me to pretend that I forgot or want to ignore the fact that the GOP filibustered all attempts of that congress from passing bills to fund the Gov't.

So last I checked, someone was trying but the GOP had the congress locked up.

That abuse of the filibuster needs to be curtailed by the voters. We need to elect only candidates who will remove that feature.

Then this legislature will begin to function in the higher chamber. Then we need to allow earmarks again, for the Speaker of the house to use as a means of infrastructure development and insurance of bipartisan support for realistic common sense actions.

The FDA is about three or four jumps away from the problem here, and putting an industry in charge of policing itself is foolish.

The FDA is accountable to the people of the USA, lastly, and they are demanding a safe food supply and that the GOP stop playing games with holding these programs hostage.

Really? The FDA is accountable? 76,000,000 instances of food illness, over 300,000 hospitalizations and 1500 deaths or more per year and this is a record you would defend?http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm

Where exactly have they been called to account for this abysmal record? Who was fired and when? Who was charged with mis,mal or nonfeasance of their responsibilities? What changes has the agency made to ensure it doesn't happen again? That's easy! No one has or will be fired. No one will even be called to task despite people dying. So how are these asshats any better at keeping us safe than the companies themselves would be?

Or are you one of those who simply trusts the government to keep us safe, even when they fail miserably as they've done here?

 

[Centexfarmer]

Jack I'm picturing you and I over a pitcher of beer on the Jersey Shore; cool, breezy, hot guys on the beach.

(You look really hot in that sleeve less T btw!)

The issue is they aren't and haven't been doing their job for many years. The last document I could find shows the FDA to be requesting a 19% increase in their budget to address food safety issues in part.
http://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/reportsmanualsforms/reports/budgetreports/ucm153154.htm

And the FDA didn't get that request did they?

Now because the democrats haven't managed to screw together a budget for some years now, it's difficult to determine if their request was granted or not.

Sure it is, it would have shown up in the expenses, or we'd have something to show for it besides 3,000 food poisoning deaths a year.

Wouldn't ya think?

Last i checked the democrats ran everything in 2010, so the question begs do they really care about food safety or are they simply making a stink for political purposes again?

Who's making the stink?

You were talking about "fabricated" debt ceiling hysteria a couple of days ago, have you heard one elected represented address food safety during the same time period?

Or at all for that matter. Either party.

I don't believe in supporting failure. If the FDA wants to propose a budget in which they are prepared to guarantee food safety, I'd consider it. But the days of "We just need more money!" are over. We are spending billions on an agency, which everyone concedes, isn't doing it's job as evidenced by food safety issues for decades now.

If you were still a cop you'd be blaming Admin, the local City Council or the County Government for not giving your department the resources that you needed to do the job that our elected officials mandated you to do?

I'm just asking.

Making private concerns criminally and civilly responsible for ensuring food safety would work far better than what we're doing now.

Trust me, the law already does that.

The problem is there aren't enough enforcers to give the law any teeth, and a semi-lax environment on the food sectors part to be proactive in adhering to those laws?

If you're at your local grocer, and the raw chicken looks yellow, and the beef or lunch meat is grey and dead looking, don't put it back on the shelf.

Report it to a manager. That's a potential lawsuit, and they might even give you a coupon or a discount for reporting it.

Fast food? Your favorite diner? Take a whiff before you dive in with your fork. If it smells funny, strange, has a vinegar type pungent to it, SEND IT BACK!

The consumer has their own health at stake, more so than the person serving it.

This is what it's come too.

The FDA fails at their primary task again and again, yet we continue to fund this government sponsored failure year after year. Where is their accountability? There is none. It's always someone or something else's fault. More money is always the answer. Sorry, that game is over.

Where's our accountability?

The FDA has set the standards, there are few if any agents to effectively ensure that those standards are being met on a regional, and now global level, and because it's essentially become an "unfunded mandate" from the Federal Government, it's the FDA's fault they they're a failure?

Do you see where I'm going with that?

 

[jackoroe]

Jack I'm picturing you and I over a pitcher of beer on the Jersey Shore; cool, breezy, hot guys on the beach.

(You look really hot in that sleeve less T btw!)

Actually it's usually a Mojito, but thanks for the compliment.

And the FDA didn't get that request did they?



Sure it is, it would have shown up in the expenses, or we'd have something to show for it besides 3,000 food poisoning deaths a year.

Wouldn't ya think?

I have no idea what they finally got. I think that's government's latest gimmick. Hide the expenses.

Who's making the stink?

You were talking about "fabricated" debt ceiling hysteria a couple of days ago, have you heard one elected represented address food safety during the same time period?

No, they were actually caterwauling about the House not funding the FAA, when they actually passed a bill doing so. The senate quietly passed the same bill in 47 seconds on Thursday, I believe.

Or at all for that matter. Either party.



If you were still a cop you'd be blaming Admin, the local City Council or the County Government for not giving your department the resources that you needed to do the job that our elected officials mandated you to do?

I'm just asking.

Truth is they rarely provided adequate funding, unlike Texas. So, you learn to make do without it, but you do get the job done. You know, advance, adapt overcome?

Trust me, the law already does that.

The problem is there aren't enough enforcers to give the law any teeth, and a semi-lax environment on the food sectors part to be proactive in adhering to those laws?

If you're at your local grocer, and the raw chicken looks yellow, and the beef or lunch meat is grey and dead looking, don't put it back on the shelf.

Report it to a manager. That's a potential lawsuit, and they might even give you a coupon or a discount for reporting it.

True that! I know where all the stuff that has a short shelf life is.I can always find a container of yogurt or cottage cheese on it's way to rancidity. You get a buck for doing so.

Fast food? Your favorite diner? Take a whiff before you dive in with your fork. If it smells funny, strange, has a vinegar type pungent to it, SEND IT BACK!

Same goes for tricks you may bring home late at night!

The consumer has their own health at stake, more so than the person serving it.

This is what it's come too.



Where's our accountability?

Blasphemy! I should be responsible for myself!?

The FDA has set the standards, there are few if any agents to effectively ensure that those standards are being met on a regional, and now global level, and because it's essentially become an "unfunded mandate" from the Federal Government, it's the FDA's fault they they're a failure?

I think it wrong for the government to lead us to believe the food supply to be safe when it clearly isn't. If you claim to adequately inspect food and don't why bother doing it at all? All we're currently doing is instilling false confidence in the food supply.

Do you see where I'm going with that?

Of course I do. But I think we need a new paradigm. Think outside the box. Challenge people's beliefs in the status quo. That's how you bring about real change. Maybe a combination of self reliance and holding food producers responsible.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Of course I do. But I think we need a new paradigm. Think outside the box. Challenge people's beliefs in the status quo. That's how you bring about real change. Maybe a combination of self reliance and holding food producers responsible.

That's kinda what I'm thinking.

No point in tossing the baby out with the bath water.



But right now I'm going to hold fast that if you're receiving a Farm Subsidy, and a pathogen is traced back to any number of your corporately held "farms" you risk losing that subsidy.

 

[Knucklehead]

Really? The FDA is accountable? 76,000,000 instances of food illness, over 300,000 hospitalizations and 1500 deaths or more per year and this is a record you would defend?http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm

Where exactly have they been called to account for this abysmal record? Who was fired and when? Who was charged with mis,mal or nonfeasance of their responsibilities? What changes has the agency made to ensure it doesn't happen again? That's easy! No one has or will be fired. No one will even be called to task despite people dying. So how are these asshats any better at keeping us safe than the companies themselves would be?

Or are you one of those who simply trusts the government to keep us safe, even when they fail miserably as they've done here?

But Jack,I read somewhere on this thread that there are only 176 inspectors.It must be true since I read it on the internet..

Anyways,I'd like to believe that there are more than an average of 3.5 people per state monitoring the safety of our food supply..That's some scary stuff.

With that kind of caseload,I don't think it's fair to hold them accountable for the many slip ups that are bound to happen..Reminds me of a passage in a book I just finished ,entitled ''Poorly Made In China.''-Where,as a sales pitch,the Chinese manufacturers of a body wash,proclaimed that their product ''was not tested on animals.'' Turns out,it's not tested at all..The customer is left to trust their 'good intentions' and hope they are not smearing toxins all over their body every morning.Maybe they are,maybe they aren't.But,I'd look real close at where shit is made. We have 176 more inspectors than China does.

We should have a lot more..

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470405589"]Amazon.com: Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Tactics Behind China's Production Game (9780470405581): Paul Midler: Books[/ame]

 

[JayHawk]

Hmm... couple of random thoughts.

First I watched Food,Inc for the fourth time. Fell asleep for the fourth time. I have seen enough to get the points made. Or at least most of them.

If there are only four large meat processing companies in America... Tyson, Swift, Cargill and @@@@### (cant remember number four)... then why cant added scrutiny be applied to those places?

Hate to use the union word because it gets Kenny all wet but I think after seeing the strangle hold the major companies have on the farmers for chicken and beef that they need to unionize and develop some ground rules. Bottom line is these large companies have the power now BUT if all the producers said ...fuck you at once the big companies would have to cave.

How expensive would requiring grocers to use the cleaning chemicals if they have the auto sprayers? How expensive would requiring a washed product prior to bagging? Yes it would add cost and yes the consumer would pay it but if possible death is the alternative...... ?

Jack I get your concept of not rewarding failure. However in Food, inc it is pointed out that in 1972 fifty thousand inspections occurred... in 2006 10 thousand inspections occurred.... So you have to ask why? Do they simply choose not to do their job? Are they unfunded and can not do their job? Are they run by leaders of the lobbyist industry that they are supposed to regulate? (yes they are just like wall street and the FEC)

Perhaps if they offered prison time for the Head of the USDA when someone in America dies from food poisining related to failure of inspection... well perhaps that would cause them pause for thought on whether they want the job and also get them to identify what they need for the job instead of simply brushing it aside.

 

[Knucklehead]

Hmm... couple of random thoughts.

First I watched Food,Inc for the fourth time. Fell asleep for the fourth time. I have seen enough to get the points made. Or at least most of them.

If there are only four large meat processing companies in America... Tyson, Swift, Cargill and @@@@### (cant remember number four)... then why cant added scrutiny be applied to those places? .

I'm thinking National Beef out of Liberal,Kansas.Another death camp for cows..Been there more times than I care to count.I used to put Vicks nasal rub up my nose to counter the repellent odor of shit,fear and death.. Sometimes it works.Sometimes it doesn't..

Hate to use the union word because it gets Kenny all wet but I think after seeing the strangle hold the major companies have on the farmers for chicken and beef that they need to unionize and develop some ground rules. Bottom line is these large companies have the power now BUT if all the producers said ...fuck you at once the big companies would have to cave. .

Thanks for the flowers John,but the reason I get 'wet' over people organizing,the reason I've been fired -more than once,is that I like seeing people at least try to stand up for themselves.I don't mind working for my check,but pay me for my time..All of it!

Some people are lucky and they never have to argue w/their bosses/masters.Others,like myself, have been in battle,ass deep from the age of 13 with scumbags that want just A LITTLE MORE from from you. They never want to pay for it though.They expect that you should enjoy cutting a cows throat or happily drive it's carcass across the country in 48 hours.. I'm pro labor to my core John,because unlike most liberals,I actually work for a living.

 

[Joshua_me]

Another death camp for cows..I used to put Vicks nasal rub up my nose to counter the repellent odor of shit, fear and death..

You DO have a way with words, Kenny.

 

[MoltenRock III]

I toured an old Iowa Beef Pack plant a few years ago, where they were paying kill floor employees $12 an hour, for work conditions I can only describe as ungodly, disgusting. The only times I've seen and smelled worse were in the slums of the ghettos of Jakarta, Manilla, and Mexico City.

Yet this part of the US food biz is kept behind a veil, which makes me chuckle when my compatriots wince and whine about street farmers markets in various cities of the globe. They find the food stalls off putting vs brand new grocery stores with carpeting or polished flooring as being "cleaner" all the while their food was literally sitting in shit and piss for months or years before it made it to the shiny, plastic wrapped, confines of the meat aisle, at the grand fornicatorium of factory flesh purveyors.

 

[JayHawk]

This may sound cruel but those animals are food and we are going to kill and eat them. I don't see being sensitive to their feelings.

We have pork slaughterhouses in Cincinnati and I had relatives who worked for them (Kahns). They explained that you could only work the kill shift for one week out of a two month period. If you worked it longer you went whacko. (Their words).

I also understand why it is they have these animals stacked on top of each other and eating (unnaturally) corn. There are more people to feed than there is ability. So they developed a way to stack them on top of each other. More food, less cost.

That doesn't make it correct. Hell genetically engineering chickens for huge breast is scary. How do you make that better though? Mandate free range if you will and then watch the price of food go through the roof?

It is an interesting dilemma. I simply refer to union forming for the human beings being treated like shit. The price should be raised marginally to support those efforts to make the farmers lifestyle sustainable.