For profit medical treatment?

[otters]

It's a sad attempt to use repairmen, lawn workers, baby setters, escorts etc as a ligament argument against human rights...

Especially since Mr benvolio often reports that he's using their services.

 

[peeonme]

M

If health care is a right, others must work to pay for it, right? Why does not everyone have the obligation to work to give others health care? How can you say that some people can refuse to work while others are obligated to work to give them health care?

We see freedom as a human right, everyone does not contribute money in taxes for the defense of freedom, yet all are entitled...

 

[Benvolio]

It's a sad attempt to use repairmen, lawn workers, baby setters, escorts etc as a ligament argument against human rights...

Health care is not a right. But you miss the point. There is a very large underground economy in the US in which people work for a cash income but do not report it or pay income taxes: lawn workers, escorts, etc. how can they have the right to health care while evading their obligation, by taxes, to make health care available to others?

 

[otters]

Health care is not a right. But you miss the point. There is a very large underground economy in the US in which people work for a cash income but do not report it or pay income taxes: lawn workers, escorts, etc. how can they have the right to health care while evading their obligation, by taxes, to make health care available to others?

vide supra #81:

Especially since Mr benvolio often reports that he's using their services.

 

[Benvolio]

We see freedom as a human right, everyone does not contribute money in taxes for the defense of freedom, yet all are entitled...

Other forms of freedom do not entail expendtures on a individual basis. Health care involves spending money for a specific indiviuals, and it could be conditioned on the reporting of income.
Giving health care to those who chose not to work or report income provides another incentive not to work or pay taxes.

 

[otters]

Other forms of freedom do not entail expendtures on a individual basis. Health care involves spending money for a specific indiviuals, and it could be conditioned on the reporting of income.
Giving health care to those who chose not to work or report income provides another incentive not to work or pay taxes.

encore: vide supra #81, and #84

 

[peeonme]

http://www.caymanactivityguide.com/Banking.htm

This is where some hide who wish not to contribute, how many of these people mow lawns for a living?
Health care is a human right, pure and simple.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Health care is not a right. But you miss the point. There is a very large underground economy in the US in which people work for a cash income but do not report it or pay income taxes: lawn workers, escorts, etc. how can they have the right to health care while evading their obligation, by taxes, to make health care available to others?

What defines rights for you? The right to medical care is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 25), but I guess that doesn't count.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Do women who have illegitimate children to live on welfare also get free health care?

Yes, as does the child. What happens if the mother dies of a preventable illness, but cannot afford the cost. The child then becomes a financial burden on the state until the age of 18 most likely.

The reality is that universal health care saves the state money in the long term, and allows the economy to be better functioning as you can depend on the work force to be healthy. But hey, you clearly do not believe the government should do anything but subsidise big business and defence.

 

[bankside]

Health care is a right. Every right places obligations on others; I have no idea what this yammering about self-ownership is. To own oneself as though one were a consumer product is a very pale notion of identity. Might as well talk about self-musicianship, or self-yogaship; or self-irrigationship. It's a form of nonsense that sounds pleasingly libertarian, but it signifies nothing. I OWN toothpaste and a wheelbarrow. I AM bankside, bearer of rights.

SPEAKING of obligations on others, these are reciprocal. There is no problem in ethics or law to make people support themselves when they have that ability. So while I do not see how you can deny lazy people their right to care (no judge has (nor could they) sentenced someone to suffer untreated cancer), you certainly don't need to leave lazy people alone to enjoy their sloth. Just as we are obliged to respect the rights of others to health care, they are obliged to get off their lazy arses and work to support themselves. If they don't, work can be imposed on them quite legitimately.

 

[Benvolio]

What defines rights for you? The right to medical care is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 25), but I guess that doesn't count.

It is not a right unless it is an enforcable right, it is just wishful thinking.
If you take the Universal Declaration seriously, everyone would have the right to have everything necessary provided withoout working. Total nonsense, and certainly not binding on the US or enforceable.
The American experience proves that welfare schemes lead to dependency, indolence and crime.
No one has the rihht to a communist economy ever if the Universal Declaration requires it and liberals want it.

 

[bankside]

It is not a right unless it is an enforcable right, it is just wishful thinking.
If you take the Universal Declaration seriously, everyone would have the right to have everything necessary provided withoout working. Total nonsense, and certainly not binding on the US or enforceable.
The American experience proves that welfare schemes lead to dependency, indolence and crime.
No one has the rihht to a communist economy ever if the Universal Declaration requires it and liberals want it.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Note that in paragraph 3, those rights apply to "everyone who works." Rights are not a free-for-all.

 

[peeonme]

Note that in paragraph 3, those rights apply to "everyone who works." Rights are not a free-for-all.

Everyone who works is applicable to those who have the opportunity to work... Ben and the cons love to point at those who can not find work and call them lazy, I know that there are some who would live off of the system, and they should be put to work for what they get "paid", but many in todays economy just can't find a job.

 

[bankside]

Do women who have illegitimate children to live on welfare also get free health care?

Yes, as does the child.

Women who have legitimate children also get free health care! Awesome!

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone who works is applicable to those who have the opportunity to work... Ben and the cons love to point at those who can not find work and call them lazy, I know that there are some who would live off of the system, and they should be put to work for what they get "paid", but many in todays economy just can't find a job.

Yup. Check out paragraph 1; everyone has the right to work...

 

[Kyanimal]

I'd also like to point out that the difference between White and Black welfare recipients is only 1%. Given the stereotypes promoted by Conservatives, and their undying enthusiasm for unbridled Capitalism, look at the overall numbers, in a country as wealthy as the U.S.!

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

This also sheds some light on the Republicants' FEAR of immigrants. They seem to be doing better than the rest of "US" that are already here.

 

[Kulindahr]

http://www.caymanactivityguide.com/Banking.htm

This is where some hide who wish not to contribute, how many of these people mow lawns for a living?
Health care is a human right, pure and simple.

If health care is a right, then so is having slaves.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, as does the child. What happens if the mother dies of a preventable illness, but cannot afford the cost. The child then becomes a financial burden on the state until the age of 18 most likely.

The reality is that universal health care saves the state money in the long term, and allows the economy to be better functioning as you can depend on the work force to be healthy.

This is a good argument as to why providing medical care for all is a general obligation. But an obligation does not mean that there is a right.

 

[frankfrank]

What defines rights for you? The right to medical care is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 25), but I guess that doesn't count.

Denying health rights to large numbers of people, as at least one person here would gladly do, assures that society as a whole will be sicker, as there are a lot of preventable health problems which can SPREAD through a populace if not put in check.

Healthcare wasn't that much of an issue (say) forty years ago when healthcare was cheap and easily affordable to anybody who wanted it. In 1975, I had invasive rectal surgery, and NINE days of recuperation in the hospital, and my *total* bill before any insurance was $1,420. That included the surgeon and the anaesthesiologist, the room, everything. Probably now you'd have to add a couple zeroes and make it $142,000.

 

[otters]

If health care is a right, then so is having slaves.

You're kidding, I hope.
BTW, slavery DOES exist. And no, not only in the 3rd world, but also in the 1st world.
An example: "escorts".

Speaking of benvolio again:
Using escorts' services, but denying them health care, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

One wouldn't be surprised: that YOU benvolio one or the other day will catch some sort of ugly disease from one of your uninsured escorts, would be karmic I'd say.

 

[dpnice]

..................
BTW, slavery DOES exist. ........................An example: "escorts".

...........................

Are you really certain that you want to classify escorts as human slaves?

The last I heard escorts choose their profession unlike the thousands of women and children sold into prostitution with little to no hopes of escape.