For profit medical treatment?

[thewiz]

Using Ben's iwn words would require that charges should be brought against a number of bankers who nearly brought this country and the world to another depression.Finally we can agree that this should be the case.

 

[Willie Boy]

They do look for it now, and quite often to the detriment of their research (loads of researchers having to take loads of lectures on how to commercialize their research) , but this is only because the governments of the western world have stopped funding anything since the 1980s. Knowledge for knowledges sake is now no longer wanted, despite it being behind most of the biggest develops in human history.

Even before the 80s researchers had to find funding. Yes, there was more Government funding back then, but much of the money still came from the private sector. And even what funding came from Governments was usually earmarked for that which could conceivably be used as a weapon, or have some other military application, you know to be useful.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

Even before the 80s researchers had to find funding. Yes, there was more Government funding back then, but much of the money still came from the private sector. And even what funding came from Governments was usually earmarked for that which could conceivably be used as a weapon, or have some other military application, you know to be useful.

Well I am talking from a UK perspective, our Universities were all well run and free to access with research costs covered by the universities themselves, and normally with a wage. Of course they were free to seek funding from outside of the government, but generally they were given grants. Any potential industry based things were then sold onto the private sector.

 

[mikemizanin729]

The NHS is too generous here and people abuse the health care system with their foolishness.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-19699/Alcohol-abuse-costing-Britain-6bn-year.html

 

[Kabluey]

The NHS is too generous here and people abuse the health care system with their foolishness.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-19699/Alcohol-abuse-costing-Britain-6bn-year.html

Their biggest challenge is looking after the elderly.

 

[mikemizanin729]

Their biggest challenge is looking after the elderly.

I don't expect the NHS to take care of mine. I payed for my dad's health care personally.


I don't feel the need to take advantage of the NHS if you don't really need to. It should be respected.

 

[Kabluey]

I don't expect the NHS to take care of mine. I payed for my dad's health care personally.

I don't feel the need to take advantage of the NHS if you don't need too.

But you will. Everyone takes public healthcare for granted so much, they seldom acknowledge its benefits.
Even private providers make use of the NHS. Private surgery turns into an emergency? Half the time you'll be transferred to a public hospital.
Get hit by a car, slip over or assaulted? Public accident and emergency ward.
Lose your savings or insurance cover? NHS is still there.
Need a lifesaving cancer drug? That would wipe out most people's wealth within months.

 

[nyctopgam]

Their biggest challenge is looking after the elderly.

How a society looks after the weakest is a mark of civilization.

Just because a country is rich in terms of GDP does not mean it is civilized. If you have a rich country with homeless, beggars and mad people on the streets some thing is wrong.

You can blame them as much as you want or need but it displays inferior social values like the dominance of greed, selfishness and "I'm all right Jack" attitudes. This doesn't make the GDP-rich society any better than that of a poor third world country.

Actually some of the latter do a better job in this regard.

 

[nyctopgam]

But you will. Everyone takes public healthcare for granted so much, they seldom acknowledge its benefits.
Even private providers make use of the NHS. Private surgery turns into an emergency? Half the time you'll be transferred to a public hospital.
Get hit by a car, slip over or assaulted? Public accident and emergency ward.
Lose your savings or insurance cover? NHS is still there.
Need a lifesaving cancer drug? That would wipe out most people's wealth within months.

Agreed. Some people don't see a problem until it hits them personally. They are usually people who lack empathy and imagination.

 

[nyctopgam]

Kj

Sorry, kul, in this country, we don't send people to the pen unless they violate a criminal law. We don't take polls to see who the people want to send to jail.

Yes. A lot of unethical things can be perfectly legal. It's a matter of how just a society is. In some, individuality is developed to the point of being a creed of greed. Some economic systems are built on that and thrive on it. And laws are put in place to support that.

 

[Benvolio]

How a society looks after the weakest is a mark of civilization.

Just because a country is rich in terms of GDP does not mean it is civilized. If you have a rich country with homeless, beggars and mad people on the streets some thing is wrong.

You can blame them as much as you want or need but it displays inferior social values like the dominance of greed, selfishness and "I'm all right Jack" attitudes. This doesn't make the GDP-rich society any better than that of a poor third world country.

Actually some of the latter do a better job in this regard.

That thinking is just not persuasive when huge numbers of people could work but choose not to do so and do not need to by reason of our generous welfare programs. Other live on crime and report no income. Further millions work in the underground market for cash and do not report their income or pay taxes. Many, many millions are in the country illegally.
Your notion is that the relatively few who work and pay taxes should pay more and more taxes and give healthcare, food, housing etc, etc to all the above, who, it is no coincidence, vote democrat because they promise to tax the evil white people to give a free living those masses who get a free ride.

 

[nyctopgam]

That thinking is just not persuasive when huge numbers of people could work but choose not to do so and do not need to by reason of our generous welfare programs. Other live on crime and report no income. Further millions work in the underground market for cash and do not report their income or pay taxes. Many, many millions are in the country illegally.
Your notion is that the relatively few who work and pay taxes should pay more and more taxes and give healthcare, food, housing etc, etc to all the above, who, it is no coincidence, vote democrat because they promise to tax the evil white people to give a free living those masses who get a free ride.

Yeah I think progressive taxation is a good idea. The problem is that perfectly legal loopholes mean the rich don't pay their share. Or sometimes not at all. Or benefit from corporate welfare while denouncing welfare for the poor.

If there is dysfunction in society it usually is across the board. Not that the poor are lazy and good for nothing and the rich are hard working and are wealthy because of intrinsic virtue snd merit. Sure if you own the media you can convince a lot of people it is so.

Propaganda doesn't only work in authoritarian societies. Just look around and see how many people still believe in trickle down economics (once called voodoo economics by Bush pere) and how Fox News actually has the nerve and calls itself Fair and Balanced. You can be sure some people actually believe that.

 

[Benvolio]

Yeah I think progressive taxation is a good idea. The problem is that perfectly legal loopholes mean the rich don't pay their share. Or sometimes not at all. Or benefit from corporate welfare while denouncing welfare for the poor.

If there is dysfunction in society it usually is across the board. Not that the poor are lazy and good for nothing and the rich are hard working and are wealthy because of intrinsic virtue snd merit. Sure if you own the media you can convince a lot of people it is so.

Propaganda doesn't only work in authoritarian societies. Just look around and see how many people still believe in trickle down economics (once called voodoo economics by Bush pere) and how Fox News actually has the nerve and calls itself Fair and Balanced. You can be sure some people actually believe that.

The top 40% pay 106% of the taxes in the US. Notice it is more than 100%. Lopholes for the rich are not the problem. Corporate welfare is a propaganda myth.

 

[thewiz]

That thinking is just not persuasive when huge numbers of people could work but choose not to do so and do not need to by reason of our generous welfare programs. Other live on crime and report no income. Further millions work in the underground market for cash and do not report their income or pay taxes. Many, many millions are in the country illegally.
Your notion is that the relatively few who work and pay taxes should pay more and more taxes and give healthcare, food, housing etc, etc to all the above, who, it is no coincidence, vote democrat because they promise to tax the evil white people to give a free living those masses who get a free ride.

You do realize that most of those who are undocumented are working in this country? Their employers are withholding from them and do not pay the taxes to the local, state and federal governments. In addition, these employers (not the undocumented) can pay below minimum wages as well as violate other laws. Should an employee complain they risk not only losing their job but also being deported. Undocumented are not here on welfare; they are here to work and try to improve the lot of their family in most cases.

As for your claim that the top percentage pay taxes, it is rather simple: they make all the money. There are many in the lower income levels that do not pay taxes because they do not make enough income to pay federal taxes. However, they do pay local taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, withholding taxes and employers deduct but fail to make payments on social security, medicare, etc.

 

[Willie Boy]

Well I am talking from a UK perspective, our Universities were all well run and free to access with research costs covered by the universities themselves, and normally with a wage. Of course they were free to seek funding from outside of the government, but generally they were given grants. Any potential industry based things were then sold onto the private sector.

That's all well and good for University researchers. We had (and still have) that here. But as our Unis are often privately funded the money still comes from the private sector, except for the small portion that still comes from Government grants (the Military to be more precise.) In either case, the funders still get to decide what is researched and which direction it takes. The only way for a scientist to research what he/she wants is to be independently wealthy and pay the costs himself.

 

[nyctopgam]

The top 40% pay 106% of the taxes in the US. Notice it is more than 100%. Lopholes for the rich are not the problem. Corporate welfare is a propaganda myth.

I hope for the sake of what tattered commonweal is left that our society can still hold dear that you are in the 1% and speak from mere self interest. A single cursory google - which is not my idea of fun when I come to this site - turns up a list of SP500 corporations that pay zero income tax

http://moneymorning.com/2015/05/21/chart-u-s-corporations-that-pay-no-taxes/

and a Forbes article on how 90% of all US corporations do not pay the corporate tax.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...businesses-dont-pay-the-corporate-income-tax/

These are just the two top hits. The list of articles is shocking, depressing or ho-hum common knowledge depending on who goes down the page - though you might find it exhilaratingly ka-ching of course.