The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums

  • Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community

    In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
    If you do not have an account, please register.
    REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your Info

    PLEASE READ: To register, turn off your VPN (iPhone users- disable iCloud); you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.

  • The Support & Advice forum is a no-flame zone.
    The members offering support and advice do so with the best intention. If you ask for advice, we don't require you to take the advice, but we do ask that you listen and give it consideration.

Forcing people out of the closet

A very, very nice post, Tallguy. ..|

But I disagree with one point:
tallguy297 said:
Coming out doesnt change the world.
Click to expand...
Indeed it does. It changes your world, and it changes the world of everyone you know.

It limits the ability of people to hate, because knowledge kills hatred.

If everybody were out in Maine, and every straight person who voted knew multiple friends, family, neighbors, coworkers, and students who were gay and happy and normal, many of whom have relationships--do you think they would have rescinded the right to marry?

Being out does change the world. In many ways.
 
I think gay people should find their own niche and not criticize other gay men, I mean you went in there as another gay, they were probably just curious about you. Most of us have been isolated so I guess when we find another of ourselves we can come on too strong. They meant well just wanted to help but probably came on too strong.

Honestly, I always end up offending gay men too easily because of their own self-loathing it seems. It's like, no matter what I do or how I act or what I say, I will always be the wrong or 'bad guy', and they will look at the straight guy as the cool one. And I don't really over-idealize gay men or force them to be part of the 'rainbow family' at all, or anything like that. They just seem to be set on hating me before getting to know me and it's kind of sad.

It's like you subconsciously desire a gay man to treat you better because they are gay, and so when they don't do that- it's like they can't be accurately guided by these unrealistic expectations, so they are bound to do things that just annoy you. But did you ever stop and think that's it's not fair, that you should just judge the person individually and not as a gay person, and then maybe when you do that, you can find the gay men that you enjoy?
 
Lube I agree with you are so right.

We do tend to coddle gay men too much. They hear all these stories about parents disowning their children for being gay and yeah while extremist households DO exist like that the majority of straight parents just want to understand and they can't do that unless you meet them halfway. 99% of the time it ends up going really well and you end up being proud of yourself for having the balls to talk about it. You could be the very RARE exception and have shitty, nutjoby parents who would try to hurt you but come on man, I highly doubt that's the case.

You will always get questions about your sex life as a gay man, because you are a minority and people are just naturally curious. (both straights and other gay people) Why take offense to that? 'Equality' is a nice concept but I don't want that type of equality, as it's unrealistic. You're different, and maybe you need to try to feel OKAY about your different-ness.

You DO need to come out to your parents eventually as it would help EVERYBODY, and if you don't, you are not only hurting yourself, but my rights as well cause the more people that know gay people and how we're just as complex as everybody else with the same faults and victories, then the more that people won't hate against us out of fear and not knowing. Everything is connected, and what you do to yourself, you do to everybody. And vice-versa.

You may not like what I'm telling you, and I'm sorry. But you posted this publicly online so my advice to you is this: Stop being so selfish. The world doesn't revolve around you. You must understand to be understood.
 
I'm sorry I'm posting a lot , but....

People tend to be more scared of gay people than you are of them. You are the one with the power. I mean, and that's the issue. It's FEAR, they are literally AFRAID OF GAYS just because they don't know. It's an Other. But by coming out and standing your ground, that you are just this way, you invite understanding and compassion and dialogue. There are total sociopath nutjobs that FEED on the misunderstanding so many straights have about gay people, and use this to further their own needs.

Just because it's a little hard and difficult at first, doesn't mean the right choice is to 'hide under a rock and hope everything will be okay' cause when you do that, you let homophobia and bullies win, even if indirectly. There is a saying that I think applies to all closet cases; that without fear there can be no courage. And when you are afraid of something that USUALLY means not always, but usually- that you should probably just do it, and conquer it- as it will lead you to the path of psychological liberation.

The thing is you can't 'half-way step out of the closet.' Your desires could naturally change over time but, you have to be out to EVERYBODY you know, or it just doesn't work and you might seem sneaky and manipulative to others. You don't have to scream it to the rooftops but you do have to let it be known. Also it's a gay men's clinic I'm sorry if you felt violated but what did you expect?

And well no, of course you are not hiding completely. But it's like u are peeking ur head out to see if it's safe and okay first' but sometimes you just have to man up and kinda face the dragon. If you are not out to everybody you know you're not really out, you are just out when it's convenient for you. Another thing you won't like to hear: Other people have died for your right to do that.

I will end this preachy sermon here and give u some things to think about it, so you can see other's perspectives. And I hope you don't take this as an attack, cause it's not. It's tough love.
 
Not taking the time to read over everyone else's posts.. apologizing in advance if I step on toes or repeat what is said.

There are as many closets as there are gay people that sit in them.

While we all experience life differently, the one thing that binds us. Our same sex attraction. is but one facet of our being. Albeit one that has the potential to paralyze a life...

(excuse my grammar)

When we stop respecting the life experience of who ever we are faced with, when we assume we know what is best, we become the enemy. And are as oppressive as the worst bigot.

How many times did you like someone telling you what to do? (be quiet submissives, that statement wasn't aimed at you)

Lead by example.

You want people to come out? Show them the way, by living a successful, productive life.

Speak out. Key word being speak, not yell.

Old sayings stick around because the lessons in them hold true.

You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
So display how the grass is greener on the other side.

Your anger at society, the way "life has screwed you over". It comes across as foaming at the mouth, militancy. Redirect that anger into a more productive channel, by succeeding on every front.

Make being gay something to be, instead of something to fear or hate.

Coexist.

BTW, new favorite thread.

I know a kid who is out and proud at 17... I couldn't imagine doing that myself at his age.

The world is changing and many people are stuck in the flux. Tomorrow will not be like today unless you do something different than you did today. How easily we forget what our closets felt like. How easily we distance ourselves from ourselves.

We get out of the damn thing and then feel guilty for being in there. We get pissed that so much time and energy and emotion was spent in maintaining it. We recognize it as poison by holding ourselves against impossibilities and ideals. And wish like hell that no one else has to go through what we put our own selves through.. the ludicrous irony of it all.

Well I, for one, am tired of the whole damn thing.

If someone wants to stay in their closet for whatever reason, the only person they truly hurt is their self.
Let's go have lunch....

And if someone wants out of it, then how ya doing? Hope you aren't scarred beyond living.
We can go have lunch too.
 
Lube said:
40 years ago that's what any gay man in America had to do.

10-20 years ago that's why rural gays moved to the city. Lead a double life (gay in the city, closeted at home) or just came out and moved to the city by choice or from being thrown out.

I had 2 siblings thrown out of the house (not because they were gay). They survived. Makes you grow up real fast.

Is it ideal? No, of course not. But taking a stand for yourself is never easy.

This country was started by people who fled the known world for an unknown world to avoid religious persecution. But young adults can't leave their own parents' cocoon nowadays.

Being coddled is for babies, not adults.
Click to expand...
I like the way you think!

I grew up in rural Alabama. LIVED in church. Had a SERIOUSLY religious family.

Guess what? When you're tired of lying and feeling trapped you'll do what you have to do.

When I came down to it I told my mom that I'd go sleep under a bridge before I lived in a house where I wasn't loved and accepted.

Stand your ground. Be STRONG for yourself and whatever happens know that on the other side of your honesty is freedom.

If a boy in rural AL who became musical director of a church at 10 can do it I'd venture to say anyone can. Life isn't necessarily easy but don't make it more difficult than it has to be.
 
I just think to often that people want to make the decision for you.

I don't sit around all day thinking about how I will come out to my parents. Hell, I really don't think it's any of there business who I am dealing with male or female. I'm very private about things. I didn't even tell my parents I got accepted to a university until it was time to move into the dorms. I am focused on my degrees, partner, friends,and hobbies.

The question came up when they asked me if we had met each others parents. I said, No. and the flood gates opened. Of course I'm going to be nice and converse. But I feel its an invasion. I really wanted to stay fall back. Let me and him worry about it. When the time is right we'll handle it. Thank you for the advice.

Once I get done with my undergrad and grad school. Then I might send my parents a nice letter and call it a day.
 
>>>I don't sit around all day thinking about how I will come out to my parents. Hell, I really don't think it's any of there business who I am dealing with male or female.

I guess that all depends. Most people are fairly close to their parents, even when they're not on great terms with them. Neglecting to tell my parents (or siblings) that I'm gay would be like not telling my best friend. And if my best friend asked me if I was dating anybody right now, I wouldn't tell him to get out of my business. If you and your parents don't talk much at all, then yeah - no reason to go to any effort to tell them, much like I haven't tracked down all my cousins to see if they got the memo...

Lex
 
TX-Beau said:
I for one find it strange that guys in the closet will try to insist that guys out of the closet respect it.

What's there to respect? The lies? The panic? The fear? The deception? The frustration? The desperation? The loneliness? The isolation?
Click to expand...

Were you not listening when they asked what to respect? No one is asking you to respect lies. But what they're asking you is to respect their right to come out in a time frame they deem appropriate for them. Did not most out guys come out in a time frame they deemed appropriate for them too? Golden rule my friend.

I for one find it strange that out men forget what it was like when they were in coming out and how would they have felt if someone forced their hand before they were ready.

food for thought
 
spencer said:
Were you not listening when they asked what to respect? No one is asking you to respect lies. But what they're asking you is to respect their right to come out in a time frame they deem appropriate for them. Did not most out guys come out in a time frame they deemed appropriate for them too? Golden rule my friend.

I for one find it strange that out men forget what it was like when they were in coming out and how would they have felt if someone forced their hand before they were ready.

food for thought
Click to expand...

No one, I repeat, no one, can force someone out of the closet. Even if you get outed, if you don’t want to come out, you won’t. The only person who can get you out of the closet is yourself, because the only one keeping you there is yourself.

The rest of us who have been there and done that, aren’t under any illusions about what the closet is. I speak up because I know precisely what it's like. I can't forget the time I spent in the closet. The truth of it is that the closet is not “privacy,” it’s not “choice,” it’s fear, and it’s deceit. There’s no use mincing words about it.

Closet guys aren’t going to listen if they don’t want to come out, they aren’t going to followed home and forced to do anything. So why all the umbrage?

Guys who are in the closet are exactly the guys who need to hear you can live out of it. If they can’t stand to hear about that then I submit that is part of their closet and has nothing whatsoever to do with “respect.” If they can't stand to hear what others have to say, no one is forcing them to listen. No one is forcing them to do anything at all.

We all make it easier for these guys by being out and being vocal, if none of us ever say anything who’s going to?

The OP was in a gay space, surrounded by gay men, talking about gay issues, where exactly was he forced to do anything at all?
 
I guess you forgot 3 people on here that essential left because they flamed people for being closeted. Of course you can't force someone to do anything. (but actually you can force someone out of the closet, you can tell their friends), but not on here obviously. Anyway, yeah, you can't force someone out of the closet but you can flame them. Gay men do all the time. Many will treat you like a reject if they find out you're in the closet. That's the treatment I was referring to. Not the forcing people part.
 
Even if you out someone, they can, and some surely do, keep lying about it. You can't force someone out if they don't want to be.

I don't see how the OP was being flamed by the guys encouraging him to tell his parents. From what I can see, those other guys were trying to be helpful.

As to the rest of that, there are all kinds of people in the world. There are guys in the closet who actively bash out gay men. I've never seen out guys bash a closet case, and there are people who are petty and superior in every kind of demographic you care to name.

Though I would say that the vast majority of gay men I've run across, are inclined to try and help, rather than insult and call names. However, there's only so much you can say and do, at some point the guy in the closet has to get over his fear. Maybe that will be a little easier if he thinks some of us are there to catch him if he falls.

The important point is that the closet needs to be relegated to the dust bin of history, and the more of us there are who are out and have no qualms talking about it, the closer to that goal we get. I would personally like to live in a world where no one was ever pushed into the closet in the first place.

I won't date a guy who's in the closet, that's not fair to me - and that's just the truth. But, I have no problem befriending guys who are in the closet. Because exposure to out gay men is the best and most efficient way to get someone over the first hurdle; and part of that is talking about my experiences, encouragement, but most of all demonstration that it is possible to live an out gay life - even in the heart of Texas.

If we all remain silent and keep our distance and call it "respect," we help no one, indeed, we step backwards.
 
relax homos.

Unless someone outs you, it is all in your control.

So if you don't appreciate the encouragement to come out, then just say so and say you'd rather talk about something else.
 
TX-Beau said:
Even if you out someone, they can, and some surely do, keep lying about it. You can't force someone out if they don't want to be.

I don't see how the OP was being flamed by the guys encouraging him to tell his parents. From what I can see, those other guys were trying to be helpful.

As to the rest of that, there are all kinds of people in the world. There are guys in the closet who actively bash out gay men. I've never seen out guys bash a closet case, and there are people who are petty and superior in every kind of demographic you care to name.

Though I would say that the vast majority of gay men I've run across, are inclined to try and help, rather than insult and call names. However, there's only so much you can say and do, at some point the guy in the closet has to get over his fear. Maybe that will be a little easier if he thinks some of us are there to catch him if he falls.

The important point is that the closet needs to be relegated to the dust bin of history, and the more of us there are who are out and have no qualms talking about it, the closer to that goal we get. I would personally like to live in a world where no one was ever pushed into the closet in the first place.

I won't date a guy who's in the closet, that's not fair to me - and that's just the truth. But, I have no problem befriending guys who are in the closet. Because exposure to out gay men is the best and most efficient way to get someone over the first hurdle; and part of that is talking about my experiences, encouragement, but most of all demonstration that it is possible to live an out gay life - even in the heart of Texas.

If we all remain silent and keep our distance and call it "respect," we help no one, indeed, we step backwards.
Click to expand...
The thing is this, my parents don't know and I don't feel obligated to tell them anything. I don't hold back feelings from my partner while in public. I'll do what I want. What I don't like to hear is lectures about how I should go about my life.
 
Then walk away and don't listen. No one is forcing you to do anything.
 
First of all, I don't see a lot of anger here. Frustration, yes. Anger, no. I lead by example by being out and proud on my Facebook page (with many cousins, aunts, and other family being "friends" there, along with 150+ local bears/gays and increasing numbers of JUBbers). I lead by example by the "Coming out is..." thread here on JUB. I lead by example by showing my face photo on JUB.

Secondly, I agree with what TX-Beau is saying.

Thirdly, I'll add some more:

You can think you're coming out on your own timeline, but who are you fooling? Do you think family and close friends have no clue? Do you think, in 2009 (soon 2010), that people can't make educated guesses as who might be gay?

Do you think they might be insulted by the fact that you don't feel close enough or comfortable enough to tell them (even if you don't tell the whole world)?

Do you think it really is on your own timeline as you delay and delay coming out, making excuse after excuse? The longer you wait, the greater the chance that someone close to you will either ask or try to find out.

And then it's totally out of your hands, out of your timeline.

This is life, not a scripted drama. It doesn't always go the way you want, on the timeline you want.

And all of this worry is mostly pointless nowadays. That's really what us out guys are getting at!

We think there'll be all this drama, and there rarely is nowadays.*

People just don't care anymore. Really.




*--That being said, I don't really understand why families can still make homophobic remarks and tell homophobic jokes, when they're almost certain that someone in the family is gay. I think that's part of what makes guys nervous to come out. Family and friends sometimes don't seem as gay-friendly as they could be. But what you have to understand is that people can be silly and two-faced without realizing it. It's not mean, but it is silly. A few homo jokes does not an evil person make.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top