Freedom of Speech

[ambiguity]

Well then, silly, why repeat it if you couldn't get anywhere when you researched it yourself?

RG

As I said, it was something I had heard or read at one time. When I tried to Google it, all I got was several million links about Bush's invasion of Iraq.

How strange that people now put more faith in Wikipedia than they do someone's education.

Here's a few:

The Spanish Inquisition, not a war, but it was a very brutal event headed by the church.

The crusades, also a long time ago, but all for religion nonetheless.

Some of the issues in the Middle East lie in religion (Jew vs Muslim as well as between the different branches of Islam).

Some of the strife in ex-Yugoslavia also has roots with religion. There you have Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim all in the same place.

How about Ireland's famous Catholic vs Protestant fights.

In Ukraine throughout history there were fights between Catholics and Orthodox, and also there is still much tension between different groups of Orthodox (Moscow Patriarch vs Kyiv Patriarch). Also there are still issues between Orthodox and Catholic in Ukraine. The Kyiv Patriarch seems to get along fine with the Ukrainian Catholic Church, and supports more co-operation; however, the Moscow Patriarch is deeply against such actions.

---

I believe also what some people are getting at, is that a lot of the restrictive rules for us are dictated by religion. (ie: Homosexuality is evil).

Religion in the purest sense should be for compassion and love; however for the most part, that is not the case.

I am Catholic, and I believe there are many good parts to it... but I freely admit that there are also parts that are not so good. I'm not against religion, but I am against the blind following of religious rules (which is what the Church wants).

 

[kallipolis]

We should also recall the Second World War which arose out of the political ambitions of certain fascist countries. The racial superiority complex of Germany, Italy and Japan resulted in the deaths of some 50 million human beings.

Political ideologies have been the biggest contributors to the untimely death of tens of millions of human beings.

The First World War was also about racial and economic superiority. Some 20 million persons were die as a result of this conflict.

Stalin's tenure in office in the Soviet Union also contributed heavily to the death of very many millions of Soviet citizens, arising from the ideologue mentality of Stalin.

In the early 1930's millions of Ukrainians were to die from starvation as a result of Stalin's policies in denying the Ukrainians wheat that they had grown. In the years immediately preceding WW11 Stalin systemically destroyed the Red Army's officer corp, by execution.

I could go on with a very long list and also remind people of the inter tribal disputes in Africa, such as Rwanda where some ten years ago some 800,000 innocent people were massacred.

Let us also appreciate that political ideologies have been the greatest influence on the premature deaths of so many countless millions of people during the twentieth century.

 

[greaves]

^ A very good point, well made.

But fascist dictatorships, like religion, were all, and still are, based on fooling ignorant people.

Stalin was a fascist dictator. So was Hitler. So was Mussolini. So was Franco. So was Saddam Hussain. So is the lunatic who is President of Iran. All of them fooling ignorant masses, and instilling hatred.

All based on hatred of some tribe/religion/nation.

Look at your own country K. Do Greeks like/understand the Turks?

Greeks are brought up to hate the Turks. And vice versa.

 

[kallipolis]

Some human beings reveal their human frailties, through hate filled words and actions. Most human persons just get on with their life, knowing that we all share a common identity as human life. The appearances mask the reality dwelling under the skin.

Married couples and their children so often manifest hate for one another. The human being does not require politics or religion to reveal its contempt for those people whom it judges as being worthy of its insults and inhumane treatment.

On the other hand it is also worth noting that the 6 billion human beings who live on this planet, manage to get along with the minimum of hate, war and destruction. How often does a newspaper print an article on how well people live together? Bad news sells copy. Bad news sells airtime.

Let us also balance our understandings with all that goes well with the human family, rather than continually dwell on those matters that reveal something of our self, when we obsess on all that appears to represent the negative side of human behaviour.

 

[darcey]

Greed for power and/or wealth is the cause of ALL wars ! And the greedy use the fear & ignorance of others to fight them.

The Europeans who came over & tried to annihilate the Native Americans were after the weath in resources & land that the native tribes were using. So began the legend of the "savage indian" who was to be feared.

This joker is after POWER, pure & simple. How (& why) do you think Dabyah got us into Iraq ? The power to 'control' the wealth found in the middle east (a european term if you notice).

However, 'religion' was abused to control power & wealth for so long, I guess 'pay-back' is only to be expected.

 

[gsdx]

The Europeans who came over & tried to annihilate the Native Americans were after the weath in resources & land that the native tribes were using. So began the legend of the "savage indian" who was to be feared.

Actually, they tried to enslave them first (the Bible was chocked full of slavery), but got their asses whooped when the Natives fought back. Then they tried to Christianize them. Those who objected fought back and whooped ass big time. Then they almost wiped out the Natives with the new diseases they brought over from the Old World.

All in the name of religion.

 

[kallipolis]

Isn't that just the human being, at its worst.

The good that man does, should also be part of the equation.

Thank fully most human beings live in celebration of life, and do not abuse, and exploit other human beings.

Let us apply moderation and balance in our quick willingness to view only one side of the human story.

 

[darcey]

GSDX, The Oklahoma land rush had nothin' to do with religion! Nor did the Trail of Tears !

It was greed for what the tribes had - and there was damn little concern about 'religion'.

Although, I will admit the "religious" types tried their darndest to stomp out the native culture. But they came in the wake of the others.

 

[AlinCanada]

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.


Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

1. freedom of conscience and religion;
2. freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
3. freedom of peaceful assembly; and
4. freedom of association.

To me this makes sense for us. First the limits, say what you want believe what you want just don't impose your thoughts on me if I do not wish to share them, or when the interest of the state in creating a positive, stable democratic government may be compromised by same.

In other words the rights of the individual do not outweigh the good of the society. And yes we have muzzled anti-semetics, and gay hate speakers and infringed upon thier right of free expression here in the north.

 

[gsdx]

GSDX, The Oklahoma land rush had nothin' to do with religion! Nor did the Trail of Tears !

I don't recall saying that it did.

 

[darcey]

GSDX, Perhaps I misunderstood the sentence "All in the name of religion" which you added at the end of your post.

Seems like you were trying to focus on "religion" & ignored my comments about greed completely. Sorry if I misread your meaning.