From Goldwater To Dubya-what A Sad, Long Fall

[james1200]

I just saw a documentary on Barry Goldwater, on HBO on Demand for those who have it, and everyone of you should watch it, left or right (it's called Mr. Conservative; Goldwater on Goldwater, narrated by his granddaughter and you can watch a preview here http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/mrconservative/ ). You conservatives especially need to watch and learn what true conservatism is...maybe you'll finally realize that what we have running our federal government is not a conservative but some sort of Jesus freak/neo-fascist hybrid.

Even as a leftie, this documentary made me realize how much I respect this man because of how principled he was. I'm gonna read up more on him.

 

[The_Reaper]

I saw this documentary as well....

And have to say that I've finally found a Conservative I can respect...


The funny thing is, when you look at the ideologies he actually stood for that's classic Liberalism...

Which is what most Conservatives support (Smaller government, less government influence in the market, etc.)

Not to mention he had no problem with gays in the military and such...

He seemed like an alright fellow, if not a bit blunt at times.

 

[Homoerectus]

To use an old Southern phrase: Dubya can't tote Goldwater's water. That means W isn't much of a man. What kind of man was Barry Goldwater? He despised Nixon. He didn't like Reagan's budget deficits. Goldwater was a true conservative with morals. He wanted what was best for America, ot for the party. Dubya and most of the Repugs in Congress are RINOs - Republican In Name Only. I'm a Conservative, not a Republican. In 5 weeks I shall vote against every incumbant on the ballot.

 

[Roland00]

While Goldwater is a conserative, he was also very much a liberal/libertarian.

 

[chance1]

Did not see the special - will try to catch it on replay

Conservatives settle for Bush - he was the lesser of 2 evils the past 2 elections

He spends like a liberal w/o getting the credit

George Bush is no conservative

It's just a relative thing

 

[khushibagh]

You conservatives especially need to watch and learn what true conservatism is...maybe you'll finally realize that what we have running our federal government is not a conservative but some sort of Jesus freak/neo-fascist hybrid.

Even as a leftie, this documentary made me realize how much I respect this man because of how principled he was. I'm gonna read up more on him.

Yup, got to respect his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Wouldn't want to take away a state's right to make black people sit in the back of the bus. Love that principled opposition to federal power. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - let's nuke the Vietnamese!

I think this nostalgia for Barry Goldwater is SICK SICK SICK.

Loathsome as W is, at least give him credit for trying to end the GOP's recent tradition of race baiting, a tradition that was Barry Goldwater's legacy to the GOP. In your heart, you know he's right - In your heart, you know he's white (wink wink) is what the Klan heard when they endorsed him.

 

[james1200]

the guy was jewish...i'm half black and i'm aware of his oppostion to the voting rights act...i do believe it was based on principle...it's consistent with his world view of limited government. do i support it? hell, no. was he a racist? no. did he get racist votes? hell, yes! tho he did lose by the largest margin in history, he did win 5 southern states and that does say a lot...my point is, goldwater is a conservative that lived up to conservative ideals of limited government in ALL aspects of life...i never said i agreed with him. but i do respect his consistency...and if you saw the documentary, you'd see how he was a friend to american indians, gays, etc...

 

[snapcat]

I am resisting my Goldwater fetish.

I hope you're proud. (but you can find it in "search.")

 

[james1200]

why fight it snap? maybe you can educate me on things i don't know about him or at least point me towards books i should read.

 

[khushibagh]

the guy was jewish...i'm half black and i'm aware of his oppostion to the voting rights act...i do believe it was based on principle...it's consistent with his world view of limited government. do i support it? hell, no. was he a racist? no. did he get racist votes? hell, yes! tho he did lose by the largest margin in history, he did win 5 southern states and that does say a lot...my point is, goldwater is a conservative that lived up to conservative ideals of limited government in ALL aspects of life...i never said i agreed with him. but i do respect his consistency...and if you saw the documentary, you'd see how he was a friend to american indians, gays, etc...

I would respect his adherence to principle, as you put it, more if it adversely affected him personally. It's easy to be against "big government" protecting minorities from discrimination "on principle" (donchaknow as Alfie might say) when you're a rich white Episcopalian (his dad converted, probably "on principle" too and not because it might have been convenient).

And threatening to nuke the Chinese I think puts him beyond the pale of civilized discourse.

When are they airing Alessandra Mussolini's documentary on poor misunderstood granddad?

 

[smelter]

Yup, got to respect his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Wouldn't want to take away a state's right to make black people sit in the back of the bus. Love that principled opposition to federal power. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - let's nuke the Vietnamese!

I think this nostalgia for Barry Goldwater is SICK SICK SICK.

Loathsome as W is, at least give him credit for trying to end the GOP's recent tradition of race baiting, a tradition that was Barry Goldwater's legacy to the GOP. In your heart, you know he's right - In your heart, you know he's white (wink wink) is what the Klan heard when they endorsed him.

Tell that to the Karl Rove engineered South Carolina whisper crowd who sank McCain's Presidential campaign by the rumor he fathered a black child. Oh, but that's just politics, you might counter.

Born-again Bush might not be a racist but that doesn't stop him from reaping its benefits when the need arises. At least with Goldwater you could engage in a sword fight, whereas Bush's weapon of choice seems to be a shiv in the back!

 

[snapcat]

why fight it snap? maybe you can educate me on things i don't know about him or at least point me towards books i should read.

Well, since you insist ....


http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90171&highlight=goldwater

I do have an admiration for Goldwater and I wish I could have seen the HBO feature on him. Perhaps it'll come out on DVD.

To indicate just how large a following he had within the GLBT community, it should be noted that Badpuppy even wrote an obit for him on their website.

He was a true conservative, unlike the fakers that now reside in DC.

 

[bike10]

Did not always agree with Goldwater but he spoke his mind on issues. Supported gays in the military and said Jerry Falwell needs to kicked in his ass.

 

[Homoaffectional]

I think this nostalgia for Barry Goldwater is SICK SICK SICK.

If anything, it just shows you how close to 1930's Germany we're heading towards... and trying to redeem the Republican Party is like trying to redeem those *other guys* back then...

I'm sure someone will hit back w/the typical, useless 'partisan' rhetoric line.


Typical... that's why no one's getting anywhere. These useless devil's advocate types are mucking up the political debate, mucking up the priorities. I must say... some of their avatars (at least, of those, I haven't put on ignore), are quite appropriate.

And meanwhile...

No Compromise on Torture

The Nation -- I don't mean to go all torture, all the time, but as the inimitable Molly Ivins wrote today, "With a smug stroke of his pen, 'pResident' Bush is set to wipe out a safeguard against illegal imprisonment that has endured as a cornerstone of legal justice since the Magna Carta" was codified in 1215.

Yesterday, the House passed GOP compromise detainee legislation which would strip terror detainees of basic legal rights, but there's still time to call the Senate about bill S.3930--IF you act immediately. The deal President Bush struck with Congress is a betrayal of the best of America and would make this country a distinctly less democratic place. No citizen should remain on the sidelines in the days ahead.

As an important Amnesty International alert summarizes, this new legislation, only days away from being passed, would abandon the rule of law and give the President the freedom to interpret the Geneva Conventions any way he sees fit; would provide immunity to those responsible for past human rights abuses, would exempt from prosecution those who authorize treatment traditionally considered torture and would deprive detainees of access to US courts.

It's not too melodramatic to say that the soul of our nation could be in jeopardy. Much of what we're meant to believe in is on the line. And it's not only a question of morality and democracy--there's also self-interest, as many retired military brass have been saying of late. If America renounces the Geneva Conventions like President Bush has proposed, nations all over the world will likely follow. The result: American soldiers will be placed in greater threat of torture when captured, not just by one or two rogue nations, but by numerous countries around the world.

Click here for contact info to implore your Senators to resist S.3930 and oppose this attempted rollback of democracy today. Or call 1-800-AMNESTY and an operator will connect you to the appropriate Congressional office. Let the person on the phone know that you are a constituent, that you think the deal President Bush has struck is a betrayal of the America you believe in, and that you expect your Senator to stand firm in defense of human rights.

As many of you know, the Constitution was finally gutted like a fish today. All hail (or even heil) -- King Bush!

Wonder how Sandra Day O'Connor feels about her crucial tie-breaking vote in Bush v. Gore now...

 

[Homoaffectional]

Yup, got to respect his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Wouldn't want to take away a state's right to make black people sit in the back of the bus. Love that principled opposition to federal power. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice - let's nuke the Vietnamese!

I think this nostalgia for Barry Goldwater is SICK SICK SICK.

Loathsome as W is, at least give him credit for trying to end the GOP's recent tradition of race baiting, a tradition that was Barry Goldwater's legacy to the GOP. In your heart, you know he's right - In your heart, you know he's white (wink wink) is what the Klan heard when they endorsed him.

Forgot to say this before... this reminds me of the comment I made in another thread about 95% of Republicans being racist... and considering this is the kind of Republican someone as left as James is nostalgic for... I'm sure my assertion that 95% of Republicans are racist isn't true in the slightest!

 

[james1200]

makes you wonder what would happen if something slightly larger than 9/11 happened...if a dirty bomb goes off somewhere, you can kiss the constitution goodbye...THIS is the kind of thing homo, that makes me hate people in this country...the fact that they happily, yes happily, hand over their rights to people like bush out of fear. this country is hopeless...

 

[snapcat]

Our friends on the right just love to posture and bellow fire from the pulpit about how those of us on the left just can't even begin to consider anything the right says. How very sad, really very sad.

And when those of us on the left present our friends on the right with an example of someone from the "true right' with whom we can admire on some issues, what do we get?

I'll tell you what we get, shout-outs to Nazi Germany and racism. It happened when some of us embraced some of the ideas from Pat Buchanan. It happened when some of us embraced the ideas of John McCain.

Anytime any of us from the left utter the slightest kind thing about a political opponent the guys gets shipped off to Siberia and labelled a bad republican.

Well, maybe we need to embrace George W Bush, too, and see what happens.

I'll tell you straight up, guys. I've seen more instances of our friends on the left reaching out to admire people on the right than I have seen of people on the right reaching out to admire someone from the left.

The only instance, I mean the one and only instance that I've seen someone from the right reach out to admire someone on the left was for Bill Richardson - and then he was falsely brush-stroked as a conservative-moderate.

Quite illuminating, actually.

 

[james1200]

thanks for the link snapcat...i saved it to my favorites cause i'm sure i'll be re-reading it over and over...he truly was a great man...and you're right... i also think it shows something about lefties that they can actually respect someone who is true to his beliefs, even when he's a right-winger. i also can't imagine anyone on the right respecting someone on the left like FDR, for example, because he was true to his ideals, even tho he saved capitalism from itself. and they call us partisan....

 

[iman]

Snapcat - The Republicans are reaching out to Lieberman if I'm not mistaken. Well, Carl Rove, anyway.

I don't understand this nostalgia for Goldwater. He was true to his beliefs? Isn't that a minimal requirement? So were most of the great villains in history. So is George Bush when he reportedly said that he will stay the course in Iraq even if only his wife and dog support him. (odd equation, that) It is what they believe that is the problem.

I suspect that the Barry G nostalgia stems from the romanticism of the rugged individualism of the wild west. That's like romanticizing the rebellious nature of the Old South, the reality was not really that pleasant. Anyway, it has little relevance with the world we live in today.

 

[Kulindahr]

makes you wonder what would happen if something slightly larger than 9/11 happened...if a dirty bomb goes off somewhere, you can kiss the constitution goodbye...THIS is the kind of thing homo, that makes me hate people in this country...the fact that they happily, yes happily, hand over their rights to people like bush out of fear. this country is hopeless...

The desire to hand over rights is a heritage of the Left, who have taught people that government is mommy, here to take care of them. While the Right decries that, they happily take advantage of it at every opportunity. The Democrats have taught the people to be sheep, and the Republicans appoint themselves shepherds... and set about shearing and slaughtering.
When people say they voted for the lesser of two evils, they're still getting evil. The evils of both sides feed on each other, in a downward spiral that is turning us into a strange cross between communism and national socialism, with samplings of the worst of both.
Interestingly, these trends were foretold chillingly in a number of books by Jerry Pournelle -- demonstrating once again that real science fiction is social commentary.