Fully Being Together

[TickTockMan]

If you had much more* than your partner and you were going to move in together, how would you handle it?

When and how is it appropriate to discuss individual finances?

How can someone keep themselves from being taken advantaged of, but at the same time, be fully invested in the relationship?



*Meaning you own your home, car, and have a nice nest egg, etc.



I didn't really word this the best, but I can't think of a better way.

 

[Telstra]

I think 50 50 is fair money wise for at least a few years.

That is he pay 50% you pay 50%.
If he live in your house he must pay rent plus expanses.

But you don't need to count every cent. Just be flexible.
Just ignore a few dollars here and there to his benefit.

 

[G-Lexington]

When is it best to talk about it? As soon as you start talking about moving in with each other.

How do you deal with the finances? Expect him to put forth what he can. If he can pay for half the rent on your new place - if half the rent is the same or less than what he pays now - it's not out of line to ask him to pay that. Additionally, he should pay half of everything he used to get before - heat, internet, what have you. If you choose to upgrade anything beyond what he had before, I'd say that's when you chip in more. If he was paying $10 a month for cheap internet and cable, and you want the $100/mo premium package, that can be your bill to pay.

Lex

 

[TickTockMan]

Share and share alike if you truly love each other. If the money is more important then that's a statement about your ultimate priority. If the other person has more great - you out the two together and things work out. There's enough for a good life together.
Not sure why you put "more*" - was that a typo?
But yes - that's the answer to your question. Hope I helped.

There is a slight difference between what I am talking about and what you are. One can be totally in love with someone and not care about money. But they can also be in love with someone enough to move in together and not know if the relationship will last. Why should the one with “more” take the chance of the one with “less” taking half the value of the home when they didn’t put any/or as much into it?

I once asked on here “how long would you wait to hear I love you,” surprising to me a few said they would want to hear it immediately or they may end the relationship. I am not the type to say “I love you” just because. If I say I do, I do, but I am also smart enough to protect myself. Just because I love them doesn’t mean they love me. They could know I have money so they wait until they can get half then leave to get “their” share.


I am asking essentially how one with “more” can have a relationship with someone with “less” while protecting themselves. Obviously the easy answer is date those with about the same, but attraction doesn’t work like that. There has to be a way to make it even without taking the chance of losing half of your stuff.

When is it best to talk about it? As soon as you start talking about moving in with each other.

How do you deal with the finances? Expect him to put forth what he can. If he can pay for half the rent on your new place - if half the rent is the same or less than what he pays now - it's not out of line to ask him to pay that. Additionally, he should pay half of everything he used to get before - heat, internet, what have you. If you choose to upgrade anything beyond what he had before, I'd say that's when you chip in more. If he was paying $10 a month for cheap internet and cable, and you want the $100/mo premium package, that can be your bill to pay.

Lex

Do they really need to know your financial worth though?

What if they don’t want to share my home and I sell it and we move in together somewhere else? What about the money then?

 

[SilverWolf]

There is a slight difference between what I am talking about and what you are. One can be totally in love with someone and not care about money. But they can also be in love with someone enough to move in together and not know if the relationship will last. Why should the one with “more” take the chance of the one with “less” taking half the value of the home when they didn’t put any/or as much into it?

I once asked on here “how long would you wait to hear I love you,” surprising to me a few said they would want to hear it immediately or they may end the relationship. I am not the type to say “I love you” just because. If I say I do, I do, but I am also smart enough to protect myself. Just because I love them doesn’t mean they love me. They could know I have money so they wait until they can get half then leave to get “their” share.


I am asking essentially how one with “more” can have a relationship with someone with “less” while protecting themselves. Obviously the easy answer is date those with about the same, but attraction doesn’t work like that. There has to be a way to make it even without taking the chance of losing half of your stuff.






Do they really need to know your financial worth though?

What if they don’t want to share my home and I sell it and we move in together somewhere else? What about the money then?

This is a good question. Having never been in this situation, I've never really thought about it. I guess the more wealthy person is taking a chance. Whether or not the chance will last, no one can say.

Maybe a written agreement? Both guys will need to know the others financial situation if the difference is big. Each person must give up a certain portion of their income to pay for necessities like heat, water, electricity, internet (not really a necessity but you know, stuff like that) food, mortgage/rent. These things must be agreed on in a way that is affordable to both parties. Let's say the total comes out to be 2500$ apiece (low figure I know), the wealthy one can easily afford this and the not wealthy one can afford it if he makes the effort. That 2500$ figure will be fixed if certain situations come up. Obviously the wealthy one will have to give up the luxurious lifestyle, but this way, instead of losing half of his money, he will only lose some.

I don't know if that makes sense, but its the only way I can see a wealthy person not losing half of his money if the relationship doesn't work out. A lot of sacrifices for the wealthy one but he keeps most of his money.

 

[TickTockMan]

This is a good question. Having never been in this situation, I've never really thought about it. I guess the more wealthy person is taking a chance. Whether or not the chance will last, no one can say.

Maybe a written agreement? Both guys will need to know the others financial situation if the difference is big. Each person must give up a certain portion of their income to pay for necessities like heat, water, electricity, internet (not really a necessity but you know, stuff like that) food, mortgage/rent. These things must be agreed on in a way that is affordable to both parties. Let's say the total comes out to be 2500$ apiece (low figure I know), the wealthy one can easily afford this and the not wealthy one can afford it if he makes the effort. That 2500$ figure will be fixed if certain situations come up. Obviously the wealthy one will have to give up the luxurious lifestyle, but this way, instead of losing half of his money, he will only lose some.

I don't know if that makes sense, but its the only way I can see a wealthy person not losing half of his money if the relationship doesn't work out. A lot of sacrifices for the wealthy one but he keeps most of his money.

To me that would be worth it.

For someone I am 100% in love with it wouldn't be an issue with me, but anyone that is "just a relationship" that I am also in love with, I wouldn't want to lose what I worked for.


Mostly I was just thinking if we moved in together and I sold my house, I'd have a lot more money than him. If both of our names is on the title I wouldn't want to lose money on the house if we broke up.


Is there legal papers dividing up the percentage of the house in case of a break up, if one pays more into it than the other?

 

[SilverWolf]

To me that would be worth it.

For someone I am 100% in love with it wouldn't be an issue with me, but anyone that is "just a relationship" that I am also in love with, I wouldn't want to lose what I worked for.


Mostly I was just thinking if we moved in together and I sold my house, I'd have a lot more money than him. If both of our names is on the title I wouldn't want to lose money on the house if we broke up.


Is there legal papers dividing up the percentage of the house in case of a break up, if one pays more into it than the other?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenuptial_agreement

The closest thing I can think of is a pre nup agreement, but I don't know if those are available to anyone not planning on marriage/civil union

 

[TickTockMan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenuptial_agreement

The closest thing I can think of is a pre nup agreement, but I don't know if those are available to anyone not planning on marriage/civil union

I know about pre nups, but using them for a same sex relationship might chage a few things. Get "straight married" come with a lot of stuff that "gay married" doesn't in a lot of places that allow it. Also just because you live together doesn't mean you will be/get married. Could a pre nup still be used then?


Maybe this is not a relationship question, but one for a lawyer.

 

[SilverWolf]

I know about pre nups, but using them for a same sex relationship might chage a few things. Get "straight married" come with a lot of stuff that "gay married" doesn't in a lot of places that allow it. Also just because you live together doesn't mean you will be/get married. Could a pre nup still be used then?


Maybe this is not a relationship question, but one for a lawyer.

A lawyer would be good. I don't know how pre nups really work or if they even work outside of marriage and I did not even know same sex couples could not even get one.

 

[rotary]

Have a cohabitation agreement drawn up. Just specify that if your partner pays for 20% of the new house, he'll receive 20% when it's sold.

Also make sure you know when common law status is achieved (if it is at all in your state). Most places range from 6 months to 2 years living together. You wouldn't need a cohabitation agreement before then.

 

[TickTockMan]

I just don't see the issue here in this case...

And from what you wrote it sounds as if you would be the one not taking the chance of losing anything. It's easy to just want to live if you have the chance of making a gain just because.

 

[TX-Beau]

And from what you wrote it sounds as if you would be the one not taking the chance of losing anything. It's easy to just want to live if you have the chance of making a gain just because.

Why are you worried about him taking your money? Do you think that's what he's after? If this issue is causing so much stress, maybe you shouldn't move in together, because from the way you sound in here, if you do, you're going to be counting every cent for parity, and destroying your relationship in the meantime.

 

[TickTockMan]

Why are you worried about him taking your money? Do you think that's what he's after? If this issue is causing so much stress, maybe you shouldn't move in together, because from the way you sound in here, if you do, you're going to be counting every cent for parity, and destroying your relationship in the meantime.

I’m not talking about a relationship, just in general.

I look at it the same as when a straight couple gets divorced and (usually) the man loses half of his things. I have known many that have lost hundreds of thousands just because their relationship didn’t work out. A couple of those men had cheating wives and they still had to give up half of their things. Being queer we have less protections than straight people.

In my state as soon as you get married your spouse owns half of everything you got. You can’t even make one of your kids your beneficiary without a signed paper saying it is okay by your spouse. I was just wondering if anyone on the site has had to deal with this.



Also you guys are making it about nothing but money, but my question really isn’t about money. It’s about protecting yourself; financially, emotionally, socially etc.

 

[G-Lexington]

You can protect yourself financially via what amounts to a pre-nup.

You can protect yourself socially by never letting him interact with anybody you know.

You can protect yourself emotionally by not falling in love with him.

But in those last two cases, you're not really in a relationship with him, are you? Relationships DO involve risk. They involve letting people into your inner circle - emotionally, socially and (quite often) financially.

Lex

 

[TickTockMan]

You can protect yourself financially via what amounts to a pre-nup.

You can protect yourself socially by never letting him interact with anybody you know.

You can protect yourself emotionally by not falling in love with him.

But in those last two cases, you're not really in a relationship with him, are you? Relationships DO involve risk. They involve letting people into your inner circle - emotionally, socially and (quite often) financially.

Lex

I get that. What is your point though? This not an idealistic question. It’s a question all people should ask.

You’re now giving a smart assed answer instead of just answering or saying you don’t know. Where relationships do require risk there are ways to lower it at times. That was the point of the question, not to be lectured on what a relationship is.

 

[G-Lexington]

Well, if I may quote:

"...my question really isn’t about money. It’s about protecting yourself; financially, emotionally, socially, etc".

Financially pretty much is interchangeable with "about money". At least in my book. If you have a different take, let me know. Which leaves "protecting yourself emotionally and socially" when it comes to moving in together. And that just sounds rather strange to my ears. If you're at the stage where you want to move in with somebody, it's presumably because you love them and trust them enough to take that step. In which case, I'm not sure where this "protection" you speak of comes into play.

Lex

 

[TickTockMan]

Well, if I may quote:

"...my question really isn’t about money. It’s about protecting yourself; financially, emotionally, socially, etc".

Financially pretty much is interchangeable with "about money". At least in my book. If you have a different take, let me know. Which leaves "protecting yourself emotionally and socially" when it comes to moving in together. And that just sounds rather strange to my ears. If you're at the stage where you want to move in with somebody, it's presumably because you love them and trust them enough to take that step. In which case, I'm not sure where this "protection" you speak of comes into play.

Lex

By financial I mean anything of monetary value. I don’t really care about money as just money, but after I buy my house and get a new car I am going to care about them and I wouldn’t want to lose them or my retirement money just because of a relationship.

Reread post 16. The men I wrote about there I worked with for years. The place we worked gave us stock in the company. One man, when he got a little over a million in stock had his wife leave him and take half. A couple of points on that:

1) Our stock is accumulative exponentially.
2) It is set up tax wise as a retirement account.

When she left it made him have to cash out years before he was suppose too to pay her. It cost him thousands in taxes, but also in new stock. Also he and all the other guys lost their houses as well so their ex wives could live with the kids, plus because the stock is so good latter on, most had to pay house payments as well as payments to the ex and child support.



As for "protecting yourself emotionally and socially" are you saying you have no plan in case your partner and you separate? Money aside, wouldn’t you want to protect yourself at least a bit? You call yourself a realist. How can you be a realist without thinking about this stuff, unless you just don’t care what happens if you are left on your own.

 

[dangermouse]

Firstly, if you're talking about protecting yourself emotionally when you move in with someone, perhaps you should rethink this next step for a while, since by the time you move into together, ideally you should both be open books for one another to read.

With regards to the financial issues, it might be best to write a list of exactly what you're afraid of occurring (Can he run away with half my possessions, am I willing to pay the lions share of the bills, etc) and then talk to him about them. After you talk to him, have a chat with a lawyer who could give you advice on things like monetary splits after separation etc.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>As for "protecting yourself emotionally and socially" are you saying you have no plan in case your partner and you separate?

Meaning what? As in "where would I go?" Then yeah, I know where I'd go if he decided to kick my ass to the curb. But that's pretty much on the level of "I know two escape routes in the event of fire" at this point, I think. An emergency I'm pretty sure that won't come to pass.

When we first moved in together, it would've been pretty easy to separate our lives into "his" and "mine". Now, there's a pretty huge section of "ours". And frankly, the things in that "ours" section aren't as important to me as he is. If he chose to kick me out, he's more or less welcome to everything in that stack, because my main problem isn't going to be whether or not I have a nice car.

Lex

 

[looseliam]

Here's how I do it:

It's a matter of percentages. Combine the total income of the two and figure out what percent each makes of the whole. That's the percentage of each bill we paid.

If we both made the same, then it'd be 50/50. But, if he made $30k and I made $80k, it'd be 27/73.

Oh, and no joint accounts, except for joint expenses.