Gay conservatives/Republicans

[01solara]

I'm always curious how you "fiscal conservatives" who are so opposed to taxes think the government is going to provide for defense and general welfare without taxing people. This may come as a shock to many of you, but the corporations in this country have grown incredibly rich because the government has spent money on things like roads, rural electrification, water projects. In deed, throughout our history, the government has spent money on things like militias to murder trade unionists, courts to enforce contracts and return escaped slaves to their masters. You get the picture. Oppression of the working class isn't cheap. As someone once said, "behind every great fortune lies a great crime."

Of course there will be taxes the question is at what level and to what end. Taxes should provide a strong military and good roads and infrastucture. Income should not be taxed. Consumption should be taxed. Food should be exempt from taxes and luxury items should be taxed highly. By taxing consumption all of the under the table money gets taxed and savings do not. There are multiple criminal activities that aren't taxed at all such as the illicit drug industry to note just one example. The hugely complex taxation scheme is inefficient and corrupt. Simplicity can help to reduce both of these. There will always be fraud because it is simply human nature but it can be better controlled and reduced. We are in the modern era now slavery while a black mark on our history is not currently practiced nor are any of the government officials and courts that perpetuated it still alive. It cannot continue to be touted as the source of our every problem. As far as trade unions go they are the one organization that might be more corrupt than the federal government. We have just watched two car companies taken away from stock holders and investors and handed over to them by the president they got elected. Don't be deceived this is only the beginning of Obama's payback to them. Their control of the government and their own corruption are pervasive and possibly unstoppable. They will destroy the economy and the country if they are allowed to and they will have no regrets in doing so. As this is getting long I will conclude by saying that I work 70 hours a week most weeks and I kinda have a problem with my money being taken away to give to able bodied, lazy people who don't even appreciate how hard I had to work to get it.

 

[palemale]

01solara, you work 70 hours a week? Sounds like you need a union. lol.

The car companies had multiple unions. None of the workers made out particularly well. Only the workers in the UAW will come out all right. The workers in all of the other unions will get screwed, losing their jobs, retiree health benefits, etc.

I agree that the tax code is a mess. If you have ever studied it, however, you will realize that it is chock full of items inserted at the behest of the corporations and the rich in order to permit them to pay less taxes.

 

[Kulindahr]

I agree that the tax code is a mess. If you have ever studied it, however, you will realize that it is chock full of items inserted at the behest of the corporations and the rich in order to permit them to pay less taxes.

Corporations should not be taxed on domestic income, because the tax is a cost that only gets passed on to the consumer.

As for the rich, we need a luxury tax again.

 

[bankside]

Corporations should not be taxed on domestic income, because the tax is a cost that only gets passed on to the consumer.

As for the rich, we need a luxury tax again.

If you think that only foreign consumers should have the taxes passed on to them, I would be please to join a boycott of American products and leave you with no one to trade with.

 

[Kulindahr]

If you think that only foreign consumers should have the taxes passed on to them, I would be please to join a boycott of American products and leave you with no one to trade with.

I knew someone would pounce on that!

I say, you gotta start somewhere....

The country... the continent... the hemisphere... one's allies... the world?

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, Kip Thorne is what you would call a stick in the mud.



In a nut shell, Hawking said of specific metrics (set of distances) in Euclidian space, their path integral is asymptomatically independent (curve behavior is different) of the Initial State (what goes into the black hole). Only trivial metrics are not independent, which satisfies the quantum theory, does not violate unitarity, so therefore can be calculated by time slicing all the way to a distribution funciton. This is an elegant explanation that should be proven by the LHC in the future.

Could have been shown one way or another already, if the U.S. hadn't mothballed the big collider back under... um, was it Reagan?

 

[JayHawk]

Actually, I refuse to identify with either moniker. I believe in strong military. Tough policies in foreign affairs. Gay marriage. Health care provided by the govt in some fucking form. free economy with limitsto provide for the edges. low enough taxes to provide what we desire out of govt.

I just dont fall into lockstep with the majority opinion here so I am marginalized with a moniker. I actually believe most of the US stands right there in the middle.

 

[DiamondSkin]

From what I understand, gay conservatives and Republicans may or may not value gay rights....but they don't nearly value it as much as their other political opinions.

If a Republican president were to enforce strong military, deregulate government policy, lower taxes, advocate free market but ban gay marriage, ban gay adoptions, make sodomy illegal and put prayer back in schools than the gay conservative would likely vote him anyway

 

[Kulindahr]

Actually, I refuse to identify with either moniker. I believe in strong military. Tough policies in foreign affairs. Gay marriage. Health care provided by the govt in some fucking form. free economy with limitsto provide for the edges. low enough taxes to provide what we desire out of govt.

I just dont fall into lockstep with the majority opinion here so I am marginalized with a moniker. I actually believe most of the US stands right there in the middle.

I think most of America has gone on strike against politics.

 

[palemale]

This is a sickening reply.


Sarah Palin is an example of a TRUE conservative. Although she is personally opposed to gay marriage, she refuses to govern based on her own views.

NightOwl baby, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Sarah Palin refuses to govern period. Didn't you hear that she resigned?

 

[TX-Beau]

...Sarah Palin is an example of a TRUE conservative. Although she is personally opposed to gay marriage, she refuses to govern based on her own views. What makes a politician great is their ability to uphold the constitution, not their own values...

So she opposes gay marriage but would refuse to ban it if she governed?


LOL, Honestly have you ever actually listened to Palin?

 

[DiamondSkin]

So she opposes gay marriage but would refuse to ban it if she governed?


LOL, Honestly have you ever actually listened to Palin?

Agreed.

Being against gay marriage means you're anti-gay. Period.

If you don't like gay marriage, you must not like gay people.

I'm tired of the "I'm against gay marriage but I'm not a homophobe!" excuse....

 

[Kulindahr]

The SSC would have been an even bigger collider than the LHC in Switzerland and would have been three times as powerful, 20 TeV compared to 7. Most of the tube and other surrounding structures were completed. At some point in time, I hope, Congress may approve more money to go back and fund the completion of the SSC and make the US a leader in physics and technology.

I remember reading that Congress was convinced to fund enough that it could be mothballed and started up again at some point -- I just had my timing wrong.

There was a fun short story whipped up back then by a sci-fi author, involving using the SSC in the future to generate a wormhole and send someone back to tell Congress that they needed to fund the SSC and get it running by Y2k....

 

[JB3]

From what I understand, gay conservatives and Republicans may or may not value gay rights....but they don't nearly value it as much as their other political opinions.

If a Republican president were to enforce strong military, deregulate government policy, lower taxes, advocate free market but ban gay marriage, ban gay adoptions, make sodomy illegal and put prayer back in schools than the gay conservative would likely vote him anyway

Oof. No I most certainly would not vote for a Republican that did that. There's a sort of balance that needs to be reached, and what you posted above is an example of a thing that's totally out of balance, so couldn't get my support.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Oof. No I most certainly would not vote for a Republican that did that. There's a sort of balance that needs to be reached, and what you posted above is an example of a thing that's totally out of balance, so couldn't get my support.

Well, I find that interesting, because in my thread, you said your 'personal' concerns about gay rights are just that. Personal:

For me, my rights as a gay man are perhaps the single most important thing in my personal life. However, at the same time, if it comes down to voting for someone that will vote for higher taxes and increased government, my personal concerns take a back seat. I choose to put the good of this nation before those personal concerns.

So why not vote for this candidate since he would be as you said 'for the good of the nation'?

Why not vote for him? Sure gays may not be able to get married, but lower taxes and less government and strong military and all the conservative woo-ha is much more important for the nation.

Voting against him would logically be 'personal', no?

 

[JB3]

Well, I find that interesting, because in my thread, you said your 'personal' concerns about gay rights are just that. Personal:




So why not vote for this candidate since he would be as you said 'for the good of the nation'?

Why not vote for him? Sure gays may not be able to get married, but lower taxes and less government and strong military and all the conservative woo-ha is much more important for the nation.

Voting against him would logically be 'personal', no?

Because outlawing gay rights is not for the good of the nation. Outlawing ANY rights is not for the good of the nation. (you see where I'm going with this?)

When I said personal, I meant, marrying a boyfriend and gaining the rights and responsibilities that come along with that. As in, exercising my personal rights.

 

[TX-Beau]

The effectiveness of altering the irreversible continuum of events called time is as of yet unproven because future civilizations have yet to come back and visit us

Ahhh but maybe we..... THEY, they, are just keeping a low profile.

 

[Kulindahr]

Ahhh but maybe we..... THEY, they, are just keeping a low profile.

You beat me to it.

 

[TX-Beau]

You beat me to it.

I knew it!!! The collective sent you back to stop me didn't it!!!

I know you now... I'll never give up!!!!

 

[JayHawk]

^ Oh. She's back. The Vera Hruba Ralston of the CE&P circuit.

Is it a full moon? Or is it just troll:30?

Mods can we move the above quotes into the "Closed Threads and Troll Words" thread. They are perfect examples. No substance on topic, just drips as they pull out the tampon. (Sorry about the graphic image if your eating)

//

The facts of their actions speak for themselves. The republican party leaders of the last 8 years have done incredible harm to the entire idea of conservative leadership. I told you Obama would keep most of Bush's physical policy and just lose the name Bush. He did so. Let me predict another future that I have already been saying for a while. The longer the Democrat Party is in power, the more little soldiers who will be vilified as inept, corrupt and unknowing. It is a sypmton of power. So few are actually decent leaders. However in our enlightened world we tell everyone they can win and if you read a 7 or 12 step program....YOU TOO can lead people. Bullshit. Those weak links who would not survive in another age eventually run afoul of the normal order of things in a society ruled by law. They cross lines because they do not understand what they do. It is a human issue not a party based issue and it will affect the 'D'. Have no doubt.

Additonally, The idea that I would forgo all issues to support a candidate is ignorant. if you place yourself and your needs as the only issue, then your a selfish brat and a poor citizen. The only thing that made most of the community jump immediately into Obama or Hillary's camp is the Gay issue. The funny thing about that? Obama will not move on it. There are too many other things that will take higher priority. SO the vote was wasted if it was for that issue.