Gay for Pay = Locking the Closet Doors

[megustamyn]

Sexuality is a fluid thing. Some people are truly 100% gay, while others are truly 100% straight, and some other number fall somewhere in the middle...ranging from experimentation to full blown bisxuality which is where I sit).

I agree. The most comprehensive study ever done on male sexuality, nearly 60 years ago, concluded this very point. Kinsey wanted to follow up his work with a similar study on female sexuality but his funding was withdrawn because his findings were too controversial.

If we weren’t so hung up on labels, we’d all be happier. People don’t fit into neat categories. Some like women, some like men, some like both and others aren’t interested in sex at all. Some have the same likes all their lives and others change. We need to accept people as they are and stop trying to classify them.

We are conditioned into believing that straight is better from the moment we’re born. Many people find it hard to rid themselves of that notion and carry internalized homophobia within them most of their lives.

I decided about 20 years ago that I would not date a man who wasn’t out and comfortable with his sexuality. I learned from experience that it’s too much trouble. I can appreciate and admire an attractive man regardless of his sexuality but I’m not interested in anyone who identifies as straight.

I spent a great part of my life in the “straight” corporate world where I knew many men who had sex with men, some out and others not. I moved into the not-for-profit world several years ago, now work primarily within the gay community and I’m known as a gay activist. My observation is that the diversity among men who identify as gay is the same as that among those who identify as straight – looks, presentation, education, race, social class, etc. – we are all just people. I’ve known many effeminate men, both gay and straight, but I think that the majority of men just come across as regular guys regardless of their orientation.

 

[sebastian-k]

Good point Clooneyesque.

But i think it depends on your personal point of view... there's also the other side where straight woman says: "Gay men are hot!" of course it is a clichè, being gay, straight or bisexual doesn't makes you more or less goodlooking, or smarter or anything. It's just not related.

Think about original Playboy, Penthouse or some other similar magazine, target is straight men, and they know most of the women on the magazine pictures don't have a natural breast. Would that suggest that women with natural breast are ugly?... sadly, for some men and women it does.

However, i agree that for younger people, it could be a wrong message. On the other hand this could be due to a lack of mature. Of course we always want to protect young people, but there are somethings that they must figure out on their own, that's what gives you a mature thinking/mind.

 

[slobone]

Well, you're not alone, but I don't agree. I'm one of those who gets a little extra kick out of the forbidden. If a gay guy is having gay sex, how boring. But if a straight guy is doing it...

Oh I know it's just a fantasy and most of these guys' "straightness" wouldn't hold up in a court of law. But it still adds a little extra frisson for us jaded masturbators out here.

In real life is a different story. I've had 'em straight and I've had 'em gay, and gay is better. But straight men are great fantasy material.

 

[Marco Sensual]

A lot of gay men have depression because they are average looking and have a low self esteem.They don t have friends,they don t eat a lot,they never go outside and stay at home,they always envy beautiful men ect...

WHY?

Because of the pressure to be beautiful.Gay men are often superficial and very often they only wants to have sex with beautiful men.For gay men looking good is way too important.

Straight men are less superficial because a straight man can accept a woman who have small tits.

Gay men can t accept a man who have a small penis.Not all gay men but a lot.A lot of gay men don t want to have sex with men who have small penis.Gay men who only wants to have sex with men who have big penis have big penis themselfs.So to speak more the men have big penis and more the men are beautiful more the men are superficial.Not everytime but often.

You see the difference.

It can be fixed.Men got to stop to always wanting to be beautiful and wanting to be with beautiful men.Men got to accept the men for what they are.Like that no depression no problem.

In gay porn they got it wrong.It s like in gay porn they try to proof that straight men are more hot and more masculine but it s an illusion.It s not good at all because they show the so called straight men that are muscled and gay men that are thin.Once again it s only an illusion.In all the gyms half men are gay.

Muscle it s a very gay thing.Gay men find muscle beautiful and masculine.

BODYBUILDERS = GAY VERY OFTEN

My man is a bodybuilder and he is beautiful.My man hate when straight people think he is straight.When my man say to straight people that he is gay, straight people don t believe him or they are surprise.You have the proof that not only gay men can think that straight are better looking but straight people also can think that way.

If gay porn could finally stop the straight acting once it for all that will be better for gay men because all gay men in porn movies are proud to be gay and don t feel the need to act straight only as a gimmick to please gay men that are into straight men.

Gay men got to understand that these so called straight men are not really straight.It s business and fake.That s it.

If these gay men that are into straight men wants to keeps liying to themself or be naive about these so called straight men it s their choice.BUT.

Keep in mind that these so called straight men are gay.A lot of gay for pay from old gay porn are gay today and they have their boyfriends.It s the same thing for the gay for pay of today.IT S ALL FAKE.
If these men have gay sex it s not for nothing.It s because they want to do it.Nobody force them to do it.They do it by themselfs.

What you see it s not always what you get.

You can t believe all that these so called straight men says.They are fake.Porn it s fake anyway.

Real straight men don t like men and they don t want to have sex with men.Not at all.

Gay men who are only into straight men have no pride.
They got to stop watching these so called straight men because they feed the stereotype that straight men are more masculine.It s insulting for gay men and most of all it s totally false.Gay men got to accept themselfs average looking or beautiful.Stop watching the boring straight thing and go watch gay porn.Theres a lot of beautiful gay men in gay porn.

When you go on the post you see the word straight on each page.It s wrong.These gay men who are obsessed with straight men got to return in reality.This is a gay site.They should be proud to talking about gay things and watching gay porn.

They dont need to watch a so called straight man to have an erection.

Theres millions of beautiful gay men.

The problem comes from straight people and gay men.The only way to fixed it it s to stop believe in stereotypes that straight people are more that and gay men are more this.

Straight men are not more hot and gay men also are not more hot.

Straight and gay most men are average looking.IT S TRUE.

 

[Marco Sensual]

If these gay men who are into these so called straight men could try to watch gay porn they will see that it s possible for them to like the gay porn movies.

On the randy blue site pierce daniels is gay.You see it on his profile.He is masculine.He is not the only one who is gay.On this kind of site men are gay.

Pierce daniels is gay and beautiful.

Do you think these gay men who are into straight men will ignored pierce daniels because he is gay?

When these gay men who are into straight men goes to so called straight men site like that they think they are straight because this is their fantasy.But a lot of these gay men knows that these so called straight men are gay.

In these so called straight men sites the so called straight men are only an illusion.They are gay.

They only act straight.All men can do it.It s easy to act straight.

If these gay men who are into these so called straight men theres no reason for these gay men to go on sites like that because the fake straight are gay anyway.

 

[FastOne]

It's much easier said that done guys. I definitly know what you are getting at and I don't disagree. We are all bombarded with society's views of what constitutes beauty and what is sexy every day. Its on billboards and commercials and movies and magazine and we could go on and on and on. Let's face it though... sex sells and everyone is trying to pay the bills. If JUB were to try and become a non-profit it would be bankrupt in a day.

I noticed that not a single person in this thread is a jub supporter paying the $29.95 a year to help fund this website. In fact, since we have had supporters we have only 247 that have signed up out of over 100,000 people who use the forum. Thats nice and all, but that doesn't come close to covering the expenses for even one month. That wouldn't even cover the bandwidth for one month much less the multitude of other expenses....

I read this and instantly became a supporter, because I think a lot of this place, have spent some time here, and never, ever, gave anything back. Heck, I haven't even posted here until now - this is my first post.

In any case, this is a great site - the forums never cease to amaze me, and, well, the porn is pretty darn good, too.

What made me pony up and become a supporter, though, is the non-porn element I find here in the forums, and especially the realization Seth brought out in his post. I've never paid for a porn site. On the other hand, I really value what's here, but I dare say most of us are taking it for granted. A miniscule number of us pay, and when you look right into it, I think a lot of us (myself 100% guilty) don't even post.

A lot of what I ran across here helped me (together with a lot of other things) finally to come out over the last couple years, and enter into fulfilling relationships, tell my family and some of my friends who I am, and see that there are others like me here and in the world. That alone is worth way, way more than $30.

I hope some more of you feel the same way, and will join as supporters. Thanks, Seth, for the place you created, and for whatever compromises you had to make to make it happen. I send my wishes, and now a few dollars, that you can do it without so many compromises in the future.

 

[FastOne]

By the way, I had a really hard time actually figuring out and then executing how to support the site. I think this could be part of the problem.

My post about this here: http://justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2462617#post2462617

 

[Soilwork]

I'm turned off by the whole "gay for pay" thing too.

One of the biggest things that I did when I took over marketing for Fratmen was to never make a big deal about how the models were straight.

The only time we've ever used the sexual orientation of a model in our marketing was when one of them came out as gay.

Yeah, we had a series of banners that said "Straight men acting straight" which was supposed to be a knock at sites where "straight men go gay." But I thought they were smarmy and haven't made any new ones in over two years. (and I was the one who designed them)

I understand how JUB needs to pay the bills and I'll never fault them for selling what sells... (truth be known, there are a few other sponsors I wish didn't get promoted here LONG before I'd make a big deal about any of the gay-4-pay sites.)




Quite honestly, I think the hottest hardcore porn is the gay stuff... Men At Play has men having sex and loving it.. they dont' mention sexual orientation much. Raging Stallion movies use gay men who enjoy gay sex.

It's a lot hotter to me than anything else.

 

[FastOne]

No .... no ..... I like the porn And so does 95% of the people here I'd imagine. If this site was about 'People and the Beauty of being different' it wouldn't last 5 minutes.

I'd like to think the site could do both these things, without having to compromise the quality of how it does one for the sake of the other.

Honestly, most times the reason I come to this place is the porn. But the reason I like this place enough to support it doesn't really have much to do with the porn - it has to do with the other side that one member here called 'people and the beauty of being different'. Others might call it something else. I might choose to call it, at its best, a place where people can be and express who they are, and from which we can carry that presence out into the rest of the world with us.

The realization of what that was worth to me was driven home by Seth's post that basically laid out, since (almost) no one pays for anything here, the only way we get any of it as of now is thanks to the money in the porn.

To me, that means the things I think are great here that don't have anything to do with porn, are liable to be compromised unless we identify them as valuable and make a way for them to sustain themselves. Obviously you don't get rid of porn when you do that - that's valuable too! But for the sake of objectives that might exist other than getting your rocks off, it might be nice if people could have a serious conversation here without a dick on a banner flashing in front of you. And I read what Seth wrote as basically, that doesn't work financially yet.

Circling back to the original post and the subject (since I've already been chastised once by going off topic to answer an Admin's post) a key thing here is that if or when this place might be limited to being "just another porn site," it shrinks into that dark area no one really talks about or acknowledges, and closeted guys just come here to get their rocks off in private. That doesn't do anything to keep the closet doors unlocked.

The many things that go on here outside of porn, and even the choices people make within porn, though, do open the closet doors, as I've seen here and many others from what I've read. To me, this thread is about how to make sure that very valuable element of what's here gets acknowledged and protected on its own, rather than getting washed away in a sea of "pseudo-straight gay porn."

 

[theFallenGod]

Look at it this way.... Human nature makes us want what we can never have.... and being that estimates say the gay community is about 10% of the general population that means that theres about 90% of the world that we can't have... so in catering to that we are essentially getting what we can't have.....

We as human are prone to fantasy... we fantasize about anything and everything under the sun...narrow that down a bit to the straight guy working at the grocery store...or at the gym.... we fantasize about that... there is a 99% chance we will never get that fantasy fulfilled... so the porn industry fulfills that fantasy....

Some people take porn...which is a media whose sole purpose is to fully entertain... it has no hidden meaning or agenda... and see things that aren't there.... they over analyze something that shouldn't be analyzed....

the only thing porn is for is to get off..... If you don't like that type of porn than don't watch it.... there are plenty of hot gay men in several different types of porn....

I don't think that you should analyze the fact that some people get off on that....

Think about it this way... there are a lot of people who don't like hairy men... there are a lot of people who don't like skinny men... there are people who only like men with uncut cocks...

I for one have never thought that straight = sexy and gay = ugly.....

I personally think that "straight" guys who get paid for gay sex aren't really that straight.... I don't find it hurtful ... I find it unappealing.....

 

[arteguy]

I don't totally agree, but your well put comment, the FallenGod, made me rethink my tirade. There is theory and reality.

 

[letme]

I agree, and i think JUB needs to be carefull what kinda image it's creating for it's self. JUB is not just about porn. alot of my friends are turned off to JUB becuase porn is BLASTERD all over it's front pages. SETH ! you need to change JUB and clean up it's image. It shouldnt' be about porn it should be about People and the beauty of being differnet.

Ya know Optimal,,you are right. I came here looking for thoughts/opinions/views and banner.

I subscribed to the pay side of this site for a month.Then closed the account.
There are other "porn" sites that fit my taste better.

BUT Porn is big $$$ and I am very sure Seth&Co. rely very heavenly on the money porn makes. That is why this site is even here. (I think.) BUT check out this link.
Gay porn forum - Google Search

Ranked #1 !

 

[FastOne]

I agree ... Hey I've made great use of the serious forums on JUB, and the lighthearted ones. And they are the best part of JUB for me. But neither should JUB be some sort of PC censor for the gay world (in my view). If some gay guys want to get their rocks off watching so-called straight guys then what is the harm ? There is obviously a market for it or else the adverts wouldn't exist. And if you don't like the banners you can pay the sub .... problem solved !

Seems we agree then. And I didn't even realize the banners would go away until after I subscribed... but suddenly I like this place even more than I did before. My only wish (wouldn't even say it's serious enough to label a complaint) is that I had known it was an option a little more readily. Like a link somewhere (other than on the my settings page I never visited) or a little note along the lines of the one telling me i should really post something in the forums (which was there before i made any posts).

And I also agree there's nothing wrong with guys wanting to look at "straight" guys especially if it's fantasy fulfillment or whatever. Obviously there's a demand for it. I don't see it as suggesting that gay guys are any less attractive or whatever... but then when it comes to porn I honestly don't care about the orientation as long as the guy's hot. In real life, well, yeah, I guess I'm a little happier when the hot guy also happens to be gay or bi, but that's just selfish opportunism rearing its (not so ugly) head.

 

[Clooneyesque]

I'm turned off by the whole "gay for pay" thing too.

One of the biggest things that I did when I took over marketing for Fratmen was to never make a big deal about how the models were straight.

The only time we've ever used the sexual orientation of a model in our marketing was when one of them came out as gay.

Yeah, we had a series of banners that said "Straight men acting straight" which was supposed to be a knock at sites where "straight men go gay." But I thought they were smarmy and haven't made any new ones in over two years. (and I was the one who designed them)

I understand how JUB needs to pay the bills and I'll never fault them for selling what sells... (truth be known, there are a few other sponsors I wish didn't get promoted here LONG before I'd make a big deal about any of the gay-4-pay sites.)




Quite honestly, I think the hottest hardcore porn is the gay stuff... Men At Play has men having sex and loving it.. they dont' mention sexual orientation much. Raging Stallion movies use gay men who enjoy gay sex.

It's a lot hotter to me than anything else.

Coming from you, your post means a lot to me, since you are someone coming from inside the business, and have more knowledge about it than a lot of others here. (It also helps that you're living proof against the argument that straight men are always hotter than gay men.) Thank you.

As for those who say it's all just a fantasy and it shouldn't be taken so seriously: well, of course I know it's a fantasy. My whole concern is why it's such an apparently important fantasy to a lot of guys here that it needs to be endlessly discussed the way it is. (And I'm not saying there shouldn't be such discussions, I'm just talking about how these discussions affect me personally.)

I don't dispute the "there's nothing wrong with it, if that's what guys want to fantasize about then let them" argument, either. But I'd like you to consider that not everyone will be affected by it the same way. If these reinforced images of straight is better than gay (and I stand by my original assertion, society colludes in many ways, including "gay for pay" to make gay men feel this way), if these type of messages convinces even one person to stay locked inside the closet, don't you think it bears discussion?