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Gay Guys' Eyes - Never fails

there are no genetics for homosexuality, it would have been found by now.

Be careful - the logical consequence of that statement is that it is all environment, which is a great basis for arguing that sexual orientation is a choice.

It also makes identified factors like fraternal birth order VERY hard to explain.

Maybe it'd be better to say that there is unlikely to be any single 'gay' gene, as it would likely have been found by now - but I think there is nowhere near enough evidence to decide that there is no genetic link at all.
 
Be careful - the logical consequence of that statement is that it is all environment, which is a great basis for arguing that sexual orientation is a choice.

No, that's just the knee-jerk response. I believe as social creatures all normal guys are attracted to other guys to some extent, some much more than others. We all NEED tight same sex relationships. I doubt we could form civilizations with people packed together so tightly if we didn't dig eachother. It's only natural that sometimes guys will want to express those feelings... and what better way than sex? Believe that if not for social conditioning and religion, there would be MANY more openly bi guys... not after men all the time, but at the right time in their life and with the right guy for them, yeah.

Have wondered if somewhere at the top, religions and social leaders know that and want to keep a lid on things for the blind masses who just do(are) what's expected of them--I'm sure I'm giving them too much credit though.

That rediculous pat answer straight guys hack up when the whole same-sex thing comes up, "I just can't understand it" is a crock of shit. It's not that they can't, they can't bring themselves to admit they do.
 
Have wondered if somewhere at the top, religions and social leaders know that and want to keep a lid on things for the blind masses who just do(are) what's expected of them--I'm sure I'm giving them too much credit though.

That rediculous pat answer straight guys hack up when the whole same-sex thing comes up, "I just can't understand it" is a crock of shit. It's not that they can't, they can't bring themselves to admit they do.


Notice the religious leaders that are actually believing that stuff are always the ones you'd least wanna screw...


"Can't understand it" thing may be more for the anal sex that is so percieved by a lot of people to be the only trait across the board with gays... But you're right, guys can understand it fine, there just is not that same connection sexually, though that at times do change drastically...
 
If 'gay eyes' are generally very light blue or light green this would imply that Indian, Asian, Negro, Hispanic or Pacific Island gay men are extremely rare.
 
I think they meant there is no discernible physical trait that is seen throughout all the gay population. No physical gene. Though I've always wondered about gay guys pinky fingers.... they all look the same, at least most of the ones I've seen.
 
there are no genetics for homosexuality, it would have been found by now.

Be careful - the logical consequence of that statement is that it is all environment, which is a great basis for arguing that sexual orientation is a choice.

No, that's just the knee-jerk response.

Uptightguy, I'm not saying that homosexuality is all down to environment, but that is the logical consequence of jcaster42987's statement. If genetics plays no role (as he asserts), then it muct follow that homosexuality flows from some other source. Genetic and environmental factors are two possible 'sources' for human characteristics, and often both are important for a given characteristic. Unless there is some other source (beyond these two) then it is logical to say that, if one of them is completely eliminated as a possible cause, it follows that the other must be the cause. Is there some other possibility that I'm missing?

I believe as social creatures all normal guys are attracted to other guys to some extent, some much more than others. We all NEED tight same sex relationships. I doubt we could form civilizations with people packed together so tightly if we didn't dig eachother. It's only natural that sometimes guys will want to express those feelings... and what better way than sex? Believe that if not for social conditioning and religion, there would be MANY more openly bi guys... not after men all the time, but at the right time in their life and with the right guy for them, yeah.

I agree with you on all of this - I believe that there are many guys with some same-sex attractions who will never admit to them because of shame due to social or religious conditioning or for some other reason. And, the world would be a better place if this were the case! ..|

Have wondered if somewhere at the top, religions and social leaders know that and want to keep a lid on things for the blind masses who just do(are) what's expected of them--I'm sure I'm giving them too much credit though.

That rediculous pat answer straight guys hack up when the whole same-sex thing comes up, "I just can't understand it" is a crock of shit. It's not that they can't, they can't bring themselves to admit they do.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but do agree that 'the masses' can be remarkably blind.
 
I hate how so many people I know say so many bad things about gay people only because they feel they are socially expected to. They really dont get it though. I think homosexuality is caused by environment early in life, stuff that is beyond your control, as well as how easy it is for you to accept it with your religious beliefs and family conditions, as well as your peers. I dont know, sorry if my opinion bothers anyone, Im still unsure of what is going on and where I stand on this or myself.
 
hahaha... I must be straight... I have light brown eyes.

I agree that telling if somebody is gay is done through the eyes. But I have light brown eyes... very normal. I wish they were exotic, but they aren't.

Last I checked, I'm still gay though.
 
there are no genetics for homosexuality, it would have been found by now.

All those eyes in those pictures look feminine. Is that what you are talking about? Is it possible that wearing contacts can make that appearance?

We are no where close to being able to answer that question one way or the other right now. If that was the case we would know the gene or genes that cause every single genetic disease, and we aren't even close. Sure we know some, but others we have no clue. And the amount of research into finding the so called gay gene is dwarfed by research into determining genes for things like hearth disease and diabetes which have very clear genetic factors (also lifestyle, of course).

If you want to know my personal view, I think its a case of genetic predisposition, where genetic factors favor it one way or the other, but the environment (and who the hell knows what exactly that encompasses that) also plays a factor and a role as well. But I would lean on the genetic component being the more important of the two, ie you can't be gay unless you have the gene, but the gene isn't the single determinant.
 
It's not the eyes themselves, it's how he uses them. There's no such thing as gay eyes, but there's definitely a gay "gaze." Straight guys just don't make eye contact in quite the same way. It's just like any other body part - a guy's hands don't tell you anything until he starts flailing them around.
 
I don't really agree with you about eye color/gay men; but you usually can spot another gay man because they make longer eye contact than straight men. And we tend to look at eachother more intently. Especially when we realize the person who we are talking to is gay also. I work retail, and I can tell the gay people I bump into by looking at their eyes, and noticing how they look at me.
 
Be careful - the logical consequence of that statement is that it is all environment, which is a great basis for arguing that sexual orientation is a choice.

It also makes identified factors like fraternal birth order VERY hard to explain.

Maybe it'd be better to say that there is unlikely to be any single 'gay' gene, as it would likely have been found by now - but I think there is nowhere near enough evidence to decide that there is no genetic link at all.

I disagree completely with your first statement.

There is no logical consequence of that statement that would lead to sexual orientation being a choice. For example, the fact that your native language is English (or something else) is certainly not genetic, but it is also not a choice.

Also, I think it's rather anti-intellectual to "be careful" of certain ideas because they might lead to unfavorable consequences. In other words, I think it would be wrong to suppress scientific research on genetic/social-constructive/mixed origins of homosexuality because it might make people think of gays differently, or even if it makes people question gay rights. The genetic route is rather convenient because then no one is to "blame," and there's a certain clear-cut nature to having a yes-or-no genetic test result. That doesn't mean that it should be the correct explanation. Maybe it's because I come from a science background, but it bothers me when people align themselves with a scientific proposition, not because of empirical data and scientific rationalization, but because of politics.

Regarding the origins of homosexuality (apologies to OP)

Identical twins are not the same sexual orientation 100% of the time, so it is not determined genetically. In fact, most studies (Google search for sources) put the percentage close to 50%, which would actually suggest that identical genetics neither heavily favors nor disfavors identical sexual orientations. If you consider environmental effects to be the only other source of influence, then it follows that it must be significant.

For environmental effects, a good way to test is to look across cultures. Are there cultures where the homosexual population percentage is higher than, say, the United States? If there is a difference in certain cultures, then perhaps culture has a significant influence. Certainly these studies have been done, but you get the idea.
 
I disagree completely with your first statement.

There is no logical consequence of that statement that would lead to sexual orientation being a choice. For example, the fact that your native language is English (or something else) is certainly not genetic, but it is also not a choice.

I suggest that you read what I have written more carefully - particularly in post 33. I did not say that the logical consequence of the original assertion that homosexuality has no genetic basis is that sexual orientation is a choice. I said that the logical consequence was that sexual orientation is all down to environment. I don't known the origins of sexual orientation - they haven't been determined, but dunno260's 'personal view' pretty much accords with mine - that is, a combination of genetics and environment, with genetics being a necessary, but not sufficient, factor. Recognise, however, that this is a personal view, not an empirical-evidence based view, as the evidence is not yet available. Despite all if this, IF it were found that it is all down to environment (about which I would be very surprised) THEN a strong argument can be made that sexual orientation is changeable - and it could be argued that this is a form of 'choice'. I wouldn't find such an argument persuasive, but I do recognise that such arguments can be built from findings that homosexuality has no genetic basis.

If you disagree that the logical consequence of a finding that genetics plays no role is that sexual orientation must be environmentally determined, then please address the comments I made in post 33.

Also, I think it's rather anti-intellectual to "be careful" of certain ideas because they might lead to unfavorable consequences.

You have misinterpreted my intent - I meant be careful when making sweeping assertions which are unsupported by evidence and which have significant logical consequences. I assure you that no one who knows me would ever describe me as 'anti-intellectual'.

In other words, I think it would be wrong to suppress scientific research on genetic/social-constructive/mixed origins of homosexuality because it might make people think of gays differently, or even if it makes people question gay rights. The genetic route is rather convenient because then no one is to "blame," and there's a certain clear-cut nature to having a yes-or-no genetic test result. That doesn't mean that it should be the correct explanation. Maybe it's because I come from a science background, but it bothers me when people align themselves with a scientific proposition, not because of empirical data and scientific rationalization, but because of politics.

I would never, ever, ever, in a million years, assert that scientific research should be suppressed, directed, guided, manipulated, or re-interpreted on political grounds. I am a strong believer in academic and scientific freedom and integrity, the importance of empirically-based research, and ethical research. Given our difference in ages, I am almost certain that my science and research background is more substantial than yours (this is not meant as a put-down, it's just a fact). I agree with you that the relationship between science and politics is a difficult one - but I, for one, will side with the empirically-determined over the passionately-asserted, and would agree that politics (and, for that matter, religion) should be kept out of science to the greatest extent possible.

Regarding the origins of homosexuality (apologies to OP)

Identical twins are not the same sexual orientation 100% of the time, so it is not determined genetically. In fact, most studies (Google search for sources) put the percentage close to 50%, which would actually suggest that identical genetics neither heavily favors nor disfavors identical sexual orientations. If you consider environmental effects to be the only other source of influence, then it follows that it must be significant.

Firstly, I didn't say that anything was determined genetically (or environmentally, for that matter). Secondly, my interpretation of a 50% 'same' rate is that it stongly suggests genetics is important - I'd be interested in how you came to suggest otherwise. Thirdly, can you suggest any potential source of influence beyonds genetics and environment, taking 'environment' in the broad sense?

For environmental effects, a good way to test is to look across cultures. Are there cultures where the homosexual population percentage is higher than, say, the United States? If there is a difference in certain cultures, then perhaps culture has a significant influence. Certainly these studies have been done, but you get the idea.

Yes, they have, but as in any study that claims to provide information about the proportion of a population that is homosexual, the methodological issues make interpretation difficult. Even so, cultural factors are just a sub-set of environmental factors.
 
You're implying that there is only one kind of love. There are many different kinds of love that aren't even on the same scale.

You're implying that Eros is the only kind of love in existence. According to you, the friendship between straight guys is nothing more than very weak Eros....not true. That kind of love is called (I think the name for it is "Filio" or something, I can't quite remember)....and it basically means "brotherly love" which is COMPLETELY different from Eros. Another kind of love would be the love between a child and its parents.

They can't understand it because they, unlike gay guys, are only capable of having brotherly and not Eros love for other males. I can't understand how guys can dig girls, but I still know that they do.

I agree, I was too general... broad strokes going out too far. However, the line between (your greek terms) eros and folio is muddy... The sexual tension between guys doesn't dissappear when one's straight, at least not for me. In fact even when you know nothing will ever happen (i have self control, especially with married friends) it kind of makes your time together more exciting.

...and rendering the whole thing moot: What happens when a bunch of guys are stuck together without female companionship??? ...look at prisons, the military(uk navy), boarding schools, etc. The guys always hookup.

No, not many could or would form a monogomous relationship... but there are often feelings there; it's not just sex.
 
OK, back on track... no, the eye thing doesn't fly.

...and... ummm...yeah, both I and some, not all, of my straight friends 'sometimes' feel an underlieing sexual tension--It's not something we talk about, but do 'play' with occationally. Not talking about aquaintences, or the kind of 'friends' you bump into from time to time... really tight buds.

..and yes, there's usually sexual tension between me and female friends too. Though I haven't had many tight ones.


I am not you HotDude69.
 
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