gays are deformed ....

[Telstra]

Holy Scripture is not God.

sorry i missed this part.
She said it is inspired by god.

I think i said philosophy and other thoughts is also inspired by god. She said no they are not and said something i can't remember.

 

[Alex00]

Tell her that kind of sexual repressive thought was as common and as strong as to make Freud to create a new school of knowledge. Tell her that you KNOW that even though she will not admit it, she has had adultery or fetish or lesbian dreams, and with that kind of words (like I absolutely know stuff) you will be at her same level. The sad part for her, is that statistics are on your side Shock her!

 

[Telstra]

Tell her that kind of sexual repressive thought was as common and as strong as to make Freud to create a new school of knowledge. Tell her that you KNOW that even though she will not admit it, she has had adultery or fetish or lesbian dreams, and with that kind of words (like I absolutely know stuff) you will be at her same level. The sad part for her, is that statistics are on your side Shock her!

well, i was thinking should i print this thread out on paper and give it to her ...

I think she will say god will help to struggle and get closer to god.

 

[Alex00]

Haha you should, she would freak out. I don't know yet where do you want to go, yes you. Mmm I think that you should give up the friendly comfy chat you know? You're moving in her confort zone, but she gives a shit about moving yours. What about word terrorism? (Sorry if anyone feels affected) Move her, no , tackle her out of her confort zone and be as blunt as she is with you, don't try to talk intending to get to an agreement, maybe a disagreement and a shouting stressed sister is the best you can get =D.

 

[poolerboy]

Holy Scripture is not God.

But supposedly it's a conduit to God much like faith -- both of which rely on a trust that can be imparted on practically anything to give one the feeling of truth.

 

[Telstra]

Haha you should, she would freak out. I don't know yet where do you want to go, yes you. Mmm I think that you should give up the friendly comfy chat you know? You're moving in her confort zone, but she gives a shit about moving yours. What about word terrorism? (Sorry if anyone feels affected) Move her, no , tackle her out of her confort zone and be as blunt as she is with you, don't try to talk intending to get to an agreement, maybe a disagreement and a shouting stressed sister is the best you can get =D.

no no, she is smart, friendly and disagreed with sin.
I said it depends on your definition of what is sin.

And we was going no where really.

 

[UC3543]

Everyone sins and everyone needs God's foregiven and salvation through Jesus Christ. That is what I believe. Is being gay a sin - I honestly don't know, is acting on homosexual desires sin - probably, although I don't know. I know I didn;t choose to be gay, did God make me gay, I don't. My point is noo one knows for sure, but I will sure ask God one day

 

[Telstra]

Everyone sins and everyone needs God's foregiven and salvation through Jesus Christ. That is what I believe. Is being gay a sin - I honestly don't know, is acting on homosexual desires sin - probably, although I don't know. I know I didn;t choose to be gay, did God make me gay, I don't. My point is noo one knows for sure, but I will sure ask God one day

She said because of sin that is why human born deformed like born blind, born disabled, born gay ... etc.

Hence she said gay is deformed.

 

[spencer]

She believes everyone is born deformed in some way. That is why Christ died so that we could be saved, because Christ was not born deformed.

And her point is what? She's better than you because you're more deformed than her? Christ spent his time with lepers, prostitutes, blind people, the most deformed people the world had to offer. If you believe in Christ, you can be saved. It's not up to your sister to judge who sins. It's up to God to judge.

Does she not sin? Is she not deformed? Is it not a sin to judge and point out the sins of others. Is it not a sin to point out the deformities of others when she herself is deformed as well?

Lastly, ask her about hermaphrodites. Who do they get to marry?

 

[Telstra]

She believes everyone is born deformed in some way. That is why Christ died so that we could be saved, because Christ was not born deformed.

And her point is what? She's better than you because you're more deformed than her? Christ spent his time with lepers, prostitutes, blind people, the most deformed people the world had to offer. If you believe in Christ, you can be saved. It's not up to your sister to judge who sins. It's up to God to judge.

Does she not sin? Is she not deformed? Is it not a sin to judge and point out the sins of others. Is it not a sin to point out the deformities of others when she herself is deformed as well?

Lastly, ask her about hermaphrodites. Who do they get to marry?

Good point. I will tell her that or print out this thread (not sure yet).
I think she might say sin is wrong so don't do it so you can be with god.

Oh one more thing, she said homosexual is learned and not born with.
Thats her big mistake of understanding sexuality.

How do she know it is nurture ?

 

[Yohan1989]

Good point. I will tell her that or print out this thread (not sure yet).
I think she might say sin is wrong so don't do it so you can be with god.

Oh one more thing, she said homosexual is learned and not born with.
Thats her big mistake of understanding sexuality.

How do she know it is nurture ?

She denies that God knew people already even when they didnt born just yet.

The bible is very clear to me that God made people gay and he does not make mistakes just like animals that are gay as well which he does not mistaken the animal to be homosexual because he order them to live this way.

 

[Alex00]

I said it depends on your definition of what is sin.

And we was going no where really.

See, she's giving you the main point to use as your defence, and you know it. If she didn't argue that, then it's clear for her. Sin is relative, peeeeriod. Finally, if she wants to think YOU are a filthy sinner, it's because she wants to. And if you want to think that, then you are free. But I think as you that this is going nowhere and it's baseless limp material to put you in stress. Sorry I cannot advise you religiously talking, but wish you the best with your sister!

 

[Telstra]

See, she's giving you the main point to use as your defence, and you know it. If she didn't argue that, then it's clear for her. Sin is relative, peeeeriod. Finally, if she wants to think YOU are a filthy sinner, it's because she wants to. And if you want to think that, then you are free. But I think as you that this is going nowhere and it's baseless limp material to put you in stress. Sorry I cannot advise you religiously talking, but wish you the best with your sister!

we get alone just fine. Just agreed to disagreed with each others point of view.

However, she said god will save her but won't save the rest who don't believe in god.
I said how do you know who believe in god and who don't .

I believe Jasun (JUB member) believe in god but he don't say it because of religion !!!.

Is it true Jasun ?

 

[spencer]

What kind denomination of Christian is she?

As a Catholic, one thing our set of beliefs says is that God decides who is "saved" and who isn't. People don't decide. If God decides to save a murderer (think one of the guys next to Jesus on the cross) then that's his decision. When you start taking that decision away from God, then it may even jeopardize your ability to be saved.

This has always been a fundamental Catholic view just like not judging other people. God doesn't want people to play God. It's also a Christian view that NO ONE is worthy of heaven, which is why Jesus died on the cross so that we could be saved.

I hope your sister's follows her own strict behavior (didn't have premarital sex, didn't get divorced) because those sins in her mind's eye should be just as big as everyone elses.

 

[kallipolis]

“Freedom of choice is not, itself, the perfection of liberty. But it helps us take our first step toward freedom or slavery, spontaneity or compulsion. The free man is the one whose choices have given him the power to stand on his own feet and determine his own life according to the higher light and spirit that are in him. The slave, in the spiritual order, is the man whose choices have destroyed all spontaneity in him and have delivered him over, bound hand and foot, to his own compulsions, idiosyncrasies and illusions, so that he never does what he really wants to do, but only what he has to do.” - from The New Man ~Thomas Merton

 

[Telstra]

What kind denomination of Christian is she?

As a Catholic, one thing our set of beliefs says is that God decides who is "saved" and who isn't. People don't decide. If God decides to save a murderer (think one of the guys next to Jesus on the cross) then that's his decision. When you start taking that decision away from God, then it may even jeopardize your ability to be saved.

This has always been a fundamental Catholic view just like not judging other people. God doesn't want people to play God. It's also a Christian view that NO ONE is worthy of heaven, which is why Jesus died on the cross so that we could be saved.

I hope your sister's follows her own strict behavior (didn't have premarital sex, didn't get divorced) because those sins in her mind's eye should be just as big as everyone elses.

I think its called evangelical or something.

 

[spencer]

I think its called evangelical or something.

Yes, Evangelical Christians will definately voice what you're sister's saying. So will Born Again Christians.

The craziest part is the PRESIDENT of all the Evangelical Christians turned out to be the biggest homo of them all. That's not like a homo priest, that's like a homo pope! He was the head guy and everything. Crazy!!!

 

[Telstra]

Yes, Evangelical Christians will definately voice what you're sister's saying. So will Born Again Christians.

The craziest part is the PRESIDENT of all the Evangelical Christians turned out to be the biggest homo of them all. That's not like a homo priest, that's like a homo pope! He was the head guy and everything. Crazy!!!

I think to debate/discuss this kind of issues with my sister, i must know quite alot about religions, moral issues ... etc to know what she is talking about.
Otherwise she would always refer to god and i would not have a clue how to reply to her.

But i think i've done well. She did not change my mind one little bit but its good to discuss this sort of thing and see who is standing where in terms of religion.

She always quoting from the bible and i said best not to quote from the bible because it is not her opinions but she would say its "inspired" by god that is why she is using the bible.

I think the word "inspired by god" is not her idea also !!!

 

[Kulindahr]

I like this thread!
So.... some catching up:

Uggh much of the Christian View of Original Sin is distorted. It is derived from the true Hindu/Buddhist doctrine of Karma. Karma does NOT say that we are deformed it says that through our own errs and love of low things we have sinned from our highest place with the Queen of Heaven and put into lower realms of manifestations. This is only one level of manifestation but there are many others. Our goal is to return to the Queen of Heaven and our highest place of glory. Christianity took this view and the theologians distorted it. First of all it does not say that we are deformed. What it says is that originally we were creatures of absolute goodness. Now however we have the choice to do good or evil. Many Christians twist this doctrine to believe that man is evil by nature and that their god is an unjust god because he judges people even though he created them bad by nature. As a Collyridian I believe in Karma as all people of faith should.

The doctrine of Original Sin has nothing to do with Karma; there's hardly any similarity between them at all.
But you're right that saying it means that man is evil by nature is erroneous; man by nature is in the image of God. However, it does mean that we are born with a flawed version of that image.
You err again in claiming that Christianity anywhere ventures to say that God created people bad by nature, nor do any Christian organizations make such a teaching.

Ask her if we should also follow the Bible's teachings when it comes to women. That they can be sold to another man by their fathers, that they have to marry people who rape them, that they cannot hold positions of authority, that they cannot wear jewelry or go out with their head uncovered, and that they are not allowed to speak in church.

If not, then asking you to follow the teachings of such a morally repugnant text as the Bible on the subject of being gay is hypocritical.

The questioning is a good idea, except that your version of some things is erroneous -- even in the NT, women held positions of authority; the first 'theological seminary', for example, had a faculty that was half female.
I wouldn't ask in that fashion, any way -- I'd ambush her with, "So you wouldn't mind if I ask dad how much we can sell you for?" You're quite right that such a prescription is in the Old Testament. Another approach is to pounce on her for eating a cheeseburger, or a pizza with meat; mixing dairy and meat is forbidden in the same text as " a man lying with another man, as with a woman". If she likes shellfish, take her plate away and scream, "No, sis! That's an abomination!" -- eating shellfish is listed as an abomination, just as homosexual acts appear to be.
When she objects, sigh and admit, "I'm sorry; you're right -- those were for the Jews in ancient times, and we're not Jews, and these aren't ancient times".
And if she objects to that, tell her, "But God said so -- that's the rule He gave the whole church, in that book called 'Acts' -- that those old rules don't apply to Gentiles."

That should keep her busy for a while.....

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.


This is just one such small reason why I must stick with what I have learned. Goodness is seen everywhere, but most do not give proper respect to where it comes from. People gather around "teachers" or leaders that they want that have what they like in common so that they can justify what they do.

From everything that does not follow God or glorify Him, from those things, turn away.

I see that passage as meaning her, and any other Christians who turn to the Old Testament laws -- because by doing so, they cast aside Christ and make his work as nothing.

She believes everyone is born deformed in some way. That is why Christ died so that we could be saved, because Christ was not born deformed.

. . . .

Lastly, ask her about hermaphrodites. Who do they get to marry?

Heh -- gotta love that question at the end.

The "deformation" is more spiritual than anything; the rest is secondary. So it needs to be kept on a spiritual focus.

Paul comments on that spiritual focus when he takes the saying of some that "All things are lawful" -- and agrees with it! So long as the "law of love" is upheld, then nothing is unlawful to those who trust God.
The challenge for her, then, is to show how you being gay violates the law of love. If she cannot, she has no case -- according to the Bible.

“Freedom of choice is not, itself, the perfection of liberty. But it helps us take our first step toward freedom or slavery, spontaneity or compulsion. The free man is the one whose choices have given him the power to stand on his own feet and determine his own life according to the higher light and spirit that are in him. The slave, in the spiritual order, is the man whose choices have destroyed all spontaneity in him and have delivered him over, bound hand and foot, to his own compulsions, idiosyncrasies and illusions, so that he never does what he really wants to do, but only what he has to do.” - from The New Man ~Thomas Merton

Whoa -- it just hit me that that describes my life growing up.

 

[Kulindahr]

according to my sister !!!


I have a debate/discussion with her and we have to agreed to disagreed.
She said because of sin, that is why everyone is deformed in some way big or small.
That is why we must follow god she said.


I'm thinking sure i follow god but i don't follow humans !!
Help me guys .....

Being an Evangelical type, she may or may not care about the early Church Fathers (if she doesn't, she's committing idolatry, but that's a different discussion). But either way, inform her that one of the greatest minds which studied under the students of the Apostles themselves noted that Christ did not come to save what ought to be, but what is. So even though she's theologically correct in the position that God didn't make people gay, neither did He prevent it -- and Jesus came to save them just the same, not to change them from the way they were born, but to save them as they are... black, white, tall, short -- or gay or straight.

I know; she doesn't believe that being gay is other than a choice. I'd just google the topic and show her the thousands of gays raised as Christians who were devout Christians and did everything God and man had to offer, begging to stop being gay... and God apparently said, "No." Now, if they chose to be gay, why couldn't they "unchoose"? Why couldn't fasting and prayer, casting out of demons or rebuking spirits, laying on of hands or anointing with oil, counseling and meditating on scripture, turn back a simple choice? Well, there's not many options: God doesn't want them to change back, or God isn't able to change them back, or... it wasn't a choice.
But if it's not a choice, she's still stuck with God isn't able, or God doesn't want to. Plainly God, given that He made us in the first place, could change us, which leaves....
God doesn't want to change gays "back".

Huh!

Well, could it be that though He didn't have being gay in the original plan, He let it unfold this way because things were getting "deformed"? just as He let skinny people and people with six fingers on a hand and hermaphrodites and women with uselessly small breasts and people with curly hair happen?


In the New Testament, the only rule that God gave for sexual behavior is "no sexual immorality", which in the context comes down to not being unfaithful to your partner. In that same place it flat-out says that the Law of Moses doesn't apply to Gentiles -- period, end of subject, because it's God telling the Apostles what to tell all the churches. Bringing that Law back in through the back door is cheating. So you can tell her that unless she's pouncing on you for being promiscuous, then she's not on God's agenda.