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gays in the military

Fact is the Navy is now filling many positions in the sand box. When we join we agree to do what the officers appointed over us tell us to do. Thats part of the deal. Anyone who joined the military after we invaded Iraq and particularly after the force has been stretched thin should know where they will be serving at least part of their time.
 
The US Government (our lawmakers & justice system) should unequivocally demand that the US military stop their ridiculous and ultimately, I truly believe, unconstitutional and discriminatory policy......same applies for same gender partnerships-------

Get over it America----
 
All the European armed forces and the British allow open gays in the military and they have found it causes no problems.

It may be of interest that Conservative Republican Barry Goldwater supported President Clinton's initial election promise to allow gays to serve in the military before the Clintons backed down with the ridiculous triangulation "don't ask don't tell" policy.

This was his commentary supporting the President before the Clinton administration caved:
Ban on Gays is Senseless Attempt to Stall the Inevitable

By Barry M. Goldwater
The following is a transcript of Barry Goldwater's commentary on the military gay ban that appeared this week in the Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times.

After more than 50 years in the military and politics, I am still amazed to see how upset people can get over nothing. Lifting the ban on gays in the military isn't exactly nothing, but it's pretty damned close

Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar. They'll still be serving long after we're all dead and buried. That should not surprise anyone.

But most Americans should be shocked to know that while the country's economy is going down the tubes, the military has wasted half a billion dollars over the past decade chasing down gays and running them out of the armed services.

It's no great secret that military studies have proved again and again that there's no valid reason for keeping the ban on gays. Some thought gays were crasy, but then found that wasn't true. then they decided that gays were a security risk, but again the Department of Defense decided that wasn't so-in fact, one study by the Navy in 1956 that was never made public found gays to be good security risks. Even Larry Korb, President Reagan's man in charge of implementing the Pentagon ban on gays, now admits that it was a dumb idea. No wonder my friend Dick Cheney, secretary of defense under President Bush, called it "a bit of an old chestnut"

When the facts lead to one conlusion, I say it's time to act, not to hide. The country and the military know that eventually the ban will be lifted. The only remaining questions are how much muck we will all be dragged through, and how many brave Americans like Tom Paniccia and Margarethe Cammermeyer will have their lives and careers destroyed in a senseless attempt to stall the inevitable.

Some in congress think I'm wrong. They say we absolutely must continue to discriminate, or all hell will break loose. Who knows, they say, perhaps our soldiers may even take up arms against each other.

Well, that's just stupid.

Years ago, I was a lieutenant in charge of an all-black unit. Military leaders at the time believed that blacks lacked leadership potential - period. That seems ridiculous now, as it should. Now, each and every man and woman who serves this nation takes orders from a black man - our own Gen. Colin Powell.

Nobody thought that blacks or women could ever be integrated into the military. Many thought that an all-volunteer force could never protect our national interest. Well, it has, and despite those who feared the worst - I among them - we are still the best and will continue to be.

The point is that decisions are always a lot easier to make in hindsight. but we seldom have that luxury. That's why the future of our country depends on leadership, and that's what we need now.

I served in the armed forces. I have flown more than 150 of the best fighter planes and bombers this country manufactured. I founded the Arizona National Guard. I chaired the Senate Armed Services Committee. And I think it's high time to pull the curtains on this charade of policy.

What should undermine our readiness would be a compromise policy like "Don't ask, don't tell." That compromise doesn't deal with the issue - it tries to hide it.

We have wasted enough precious time, money and talent trying to persecute and pretend. It's time to stop burying our heads in the sand and denying reality for the sake of politics. It's time to deal with this straight on and be done with it. It's time to get on with more important business.

The conservative movement, to which I subscribe, has as one of its basic tenets the belief that government should stay out of people's private lives. Government governs best when it governs least - and stays out of the impossible task of legislating morality. But legislating someone's version of morality is exactly what we do by perpetuating discrimination against gays.

When you get down to it, no American able to serve should be allowed, much less given an excuse, not to serve his or her country. We need all our talent.

If I were in the Senate today, I would rise on the Senate floor in support of our commander in chief. He may be a Democrat, but he happens to be right on this question.

(Arizona Republican Barry M. Goldwater retired from the Senate in 1987)
 
We've got over a hundred thousand personnel on the ground in Iraq. Odds are, at least a couple of thousand are gay. Odds are also that several dozen are in key positions.

What would happen if all at once, they all started wearing rainbow armbands?

Get new people alerted ahead of time; get footage of a few gay guys taking tremendous risks to cover their hetero buddies' [STRIKE]ass[/STRIKE] safety. Get interviews with straight guys who've shared a foxhole or equivalent with a gay comrade they trust.

Bush would look excessively foolish if the Pentagon pulled all those folks out when they say every man is critical.

Oh, dang -- I knew there was a weakness somewhere: Bush can't seem to tell when he looks foolish. ](*,)












Back to the drawing board?
No, we need a whole new one.
 
the problem is that we follow orders. Order and discipline are the cornerstone of the business of protecting the republic. Simply disregarding an order would create leaders who may eventually not see a problem with just taking over the government because they dont like the direction things are goin. Military Coupe' that sounds nice huh?
 
Hey, according to the ROCT guys I went to college with, officers at least are taught they have an obligation to disobey immoral orders.
I think DADT is a set of immoral orders.
 
Dude...it is not easy being gay and in the military. Especially in an organization like the Navy Seals. However, it is very rewarding. You just have to really want to do it. I've been in the Air Force for over 12 years. I met my hubby 3 years ago, so things have gotten more difficult (like me having to hide our relationship from the military even as we are living together). To answer your original post, however, yes it pisses me off too!! Good luck!

wow

im so happy for u to have found a partner

and bummed u can't be open about it

i think the rule is crazy - absurd really

best of luck to you
 
I agree change the policy. We are taught to disobey orders that cause harm. Most dont see it causing harm and would see it as insubordination. In addition, most gay service members I know do not see their sexuality as the burning issue in their lives.
 
Also I recommend any of Steve Zeeland's books which are great first-person accounts of being gay in the military...he helped me come out. until I read those books I was sure I was the only one.
I have several of Steve's books. I made it through the first one, but I got bored with the others. However, he does have a wealth of experiences that he details. I found "Secrets of a Gay Marine Porn Star" by Steve Merritt to be an interesting read.
 
Interesting read --

Dr. Thomas Anthony Dooley, III, MD (January 17, 1927–January 18, 1961)

While serving as a physician in the United States Navy, Dr. Dooley became increasingly famous for his humanitarian and anti-Communist activities in South East Asia during the late 1950s.

Following Dr. Dooley's death, from malignant melanoma, President John F. Kennedy cited Dr. Dooley's example when President Kennedy launched the Peace Corps.

President Kennedy also posthumously awarded Dr. Dooley the Congressional Gold Medal.

There were also unsuccessful efforts, following Dr. Dooley's death, to have Dr. Dooley canonized as a Roman Catholic saint.

While serving in the US Navy, Dr. Dooley was accused and investigated for participating in homosexual activities, and was forced to resign from the Navy in March 1956.
 
When I just graduated from high school (so about a year ago) I had military recruiters call my house on two separate occasions asking me to enlist. I must have given them my phone number in one of my classes (don’t really remember which one but they got it). Each call the recruiter asked me a long list of criteria to “get to know me”.

They asked me stuff like my name and how I was doing in college, if I had broken any bones (which is strange) and after I gave them all my info each of them was really enthusiastic saying stuff like, “Your perfect, you sound like a great candidate…etc. etc”. Well at this point I was getting a little annoyed so all I said was “I really respect what you guys do and I probably would already be in the service but there is that don’t ask don’t tell issue…” and both times the recruiter quickly said, “oh ok thank you for your time.” and that was that.

Truth of the matter is I probably would be in the army if they allowed gays...
 
If you really want to you could. If it comes up you could say you were asking for 'philosophical' reasons. I think they were obliged to turn you down because you seemed too open about it. Some guys are like that, y'know.
I'm halfway ok with the DADT. I mean, if I was 19, I wouldn't let it stop me.
Y'know, if you can be cool and just be you in the military---and if it's something you REALLY want---it would help things if you went in; I mean, of course, that just being somebody who can be professional about it all sets a good example.
More of that and sooner the day that we don't even have to fool around with the DADT.
Just sayin'

And i will add that, no, you don't have to "act straight" because I've met guys that don't seem too "military" if you know what I mean. Doin' your job is the main thing. For sure, ask around of guys with experience...especially ones with good experiences.
 
The military classes where I go to school and they said no Bis Les or Gays... And they're just classes, but they count towards the military. Something like that.

Who would know I guess is what the question is. So, I mean if you want or then go for it. To each person his own.
 
Go Zach!

It will change, and it will most likely be an uneventful event.
Centex, do you think you'd still be in the Coast Guard if they would've assigned you to a bigger boat? :D :rolleyes:


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It will change, and it will most likely be an uneventful event + YouTube clip.


Firstly, let me say to smelter that that is a very cool pic of centax on patrol........awesome!

Secondly, Thanks for the YouTube clip centax..................interesting & very true comment Zach made at the end of the YouTube clip "...we should boot the hater and keep the homo..."

Hater -- a word that people like to use just because someone else expresses a dislike for a certain individual(s).........
 
yes one can sign up for a specific job, BUT the one catchall clause is " THE NEEDS OF THE ARMY. you could sign up for any non-combat related job on your enlistment document, but if the army didn't have enough boot troops, then you'd could be forced cross trained to become one.
 
yes one can sign up for a specific job, BUT the one catchall clause is " THE NEEDS OF THE ARMY. you could sign up for any non-combat related job on your enlistment document, but if the army didn't have enough boot troops, then you'd could be forced cross trained to become one.
In the world of retail, its called 'the old bait and switch'. ;)
 
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