Gender fluidity

[pat grimshaw]

My urges and desires have nothing to do with the urges of others. Just because it is not an urge in my life it doesn't mean that some people don't have that desire.

If I don't care for a certain food am I to think that it shouldn't be served to anyone?

Fair enough.

As long as you're not one of the unthinking masses who hears that a certain food is now fashionable. So they start chattering about this new food and start celebrating this new culinary diet and getting sentimental about the emotional importance of this item you put in your mouth…

…all the while without having tasted this new experience of it all but merely knowing that is a new fad.

Warhol used to say Everyone is famous is fifteen minutes in New York.

And Susan Sontag decried New York's faddism saying So and So will be this year's hit and next year's ….


This cartoon shows the unthinking faddism of people obsessed with fads—

 

[Laboyes]

It's all too confusing to devote too much energy to thinking about it, for me at least. It's just not relevant in my everyday life.

Sure, the idea of gender fluidity itself makes sense. I can try to understand that people don't feel that they are defined by the sex organs with which they are born. I just don't understand why there's so much ado being made about gender fluidity. In the end a person is still tied down by the label they feel fits them best.

There's an episode of Full House in which one of the girls had to select either a doll or a truck as a toy that kind of brought up the constructionist vs. essentialist debate that's been rolling for ages, if I recall that show correctly. At the end of the day I don't see why it matters who is correct because a person should have the right to do what they want with what is unquestionably their own body. I guess I feel that we should work on continuing to gain equal rights for everyone rather than being loud about whatever makes each of us special.

I don't see why there has to be a horrific amount of pomp and circumstance surrounding pillars of the community who are "brave" enough to transition. All of the drama around Kylie Jenner, for instance, just seems like an unnecessary distraction. Again, a person should have the right to be who they think they are our who they want be without making a big deal out of things.

And now I'm caught in an illogical mess lacking understanding. I'll just watch from the bleachers and try to acknowledge everyone's identity without being loud about it until society does the same.

 

[kallipolis]

Fair enough.

As long as you're not one of the unthinking masses who hears that a certain food is now fashionable. So they start chattering about this new food and start celebrating this new culinary diet and getting sentimental about the emotional importance of this item you put in your mouth…

There is further food for thought that the human person is in constant transition into who we are becoming, there being a growing daily awareness that the person we were ten years ago, even yesterday has matured into the person we are today as a result of our experiences, learning that our life's lessons has become our most effective teacher.

That most of us, if not all of us posting here are gay men who at 14 years of age may not have been comfortable with our growing awareness that our sexual interest was other men, evidences the transition that we must all make into becoming true to who we are...becoming.

Our growing awareness of self ends on our death day, until that moment we are all on a journey of self discovery, creating the person we are becoming.

“Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”― Oscar Wilde

 

[Taralen]

How did I miss this thread before it got clusterfucked? Ugh.

Gender Fluid or Gender Neutral, is someone myself included, who might be cisgender male, or cisgender female, but they also feel the opposite gender, yet at the still time keeping features of their cisgender trait.

For example, a gender neutral male, might have longer hair, makeup, high heels etc.

A gender neutral female, might have facial hair, beards, body hair, muscles, male clothes etc.

 

[SaskGuy]

How did I miss this thread before it got clusterfucked? Ugh.

Gender Fluid or Gender Neutral, is someone myself included, who might be cisgender male, or cisgender female, but they also feel the opposite gender, yet at the still time keeping features of their cisgender trait.

For example, a gender neutral male, might have longer hair, makeup, high heels etc.

A gender neutral female, might have facial hair, beards, body hair, muscles, male clothes etc.

Just because a male doesn't act like a stereotypical male, or a female doesn't act like a stereotypical female, that doesn't necessarily mean they're "gender fluid" or "gender neutral".
For example, a guy who's interested in cooking isn't "gender fluid", or a girl who's interested in mechanics or construction isn't "gender fluid."
This is one step from telling a guy who has stereotypically feminine interests that he's not actually a man, and he might as well just call himself a girl.

What next, will you start telling lesbians that if they prefer to date butch lesbians, they might as well just go for a man? After all, you basically said that butch women are "genderfluid" and are basically men half the time.

How about telling gay men that they're discriminating and being misogynist if they won't date, or have sex with a woman who "identifies as male on the inside"? (oh wait, that already happens.)

 

[mikey3000]

How did I miss this thread before it got clusterfucked? Ugh.

Gender Fluid or Gender Neutral, is someone myself included, who might be cisgender male, or cisgender female, but they also feel the opposite gender, yet at the still time keeping features of their cisgender trait.

For example, a gender neutral male, might have longer hair, makeup, high heels etc.

A gender neutral female, might have facial hair, beards, body hair, muscles, male clothes etc.

I think you misunderstand the term cisgendr.

cis·gen·der
[sisˈjendər]

ADJECTIVE
denoting or relating to someone whose sense of personal identity corresponds with the gender assigned to them at birth.

 

[G-Lexington]

In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God ...

And yet so many men —the Lords of Creation— want to castrate themselves and then ask surgeons to give them a pair of dry dugs.




Why, oh Why?






View attachment 1208805

And others cut their hair and fingernails, as if to defy the God that makes them grow.

They put on clothing, as if to cover up the self-image that God has bestowed on them...or as if to somehow improve on its perfection.

What fools these mortals be.

Lex

 

[pat grimshaw]

^ ahh Lex, I can see you're riffing on the 1605 Shakespeare and the 1611 King James Version.

 

[KaraBulut]

And others cut their hair and fingernails, as if to defy the God that makes them grow.

Being a Pragmatist, I have to point out that hair and fingernails grow back.

 

[pat grimshaw]

... hair and fingernails grow back.

Yes. A penis won't grow back after you cut it off.

 

[HoodedRat]

A penis won't grow back after you cut it off.

That's probably why attention whores, like Jenner etc, keep their knobs ... just in case they want to revert to male when the fashion changes.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Being a Pragmatist, I have to point out that hair and fingernails grow back.

I wish most sincerely you could convince my hairline of that.

 

[pat grimshaw]

Some of this reminds me of straights deciding if gays were "born that way", how in the hell would a straight know what is going on in a gay person's life?
But, what the heck, we'll figure it out and let the transgendered people know what they are like.

As long as they don't rape you.

Gavin Brannen alias Katie Brannen is a party-girl with a penis. And she just might take a fancy to you and rape you.

https://www.google.com.au/search?cl...vzB6rUsMgL#q=Katie+Brannen&safe=off&tbm=nws&*

 

[Kulindahr]

It has to do with neuro physiology and hormones. And social conditioning.

Some people are very gender fluid. Others not so much.

This.

In terms of sexual attraction, mine changes with the season, and that is a royal pain. But I have noticed that in the years since I admitted to myself first that I was sexual and then that my sexuality included an attraction to males that my attraction to females is not as broad as it once was, that is, that I find a smaller percentage of women attractive than I used to. So I have to conclude that some portion of my attraction to females was socially conditioned.

 

[Kulindahr]

Gender isn't physical.

Yes it is. Male and female.

Okay, it should have been "Gender isn't entirely physical", or perhaps "Gender is more than just physical".

 

[Kulindahr]

In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God ...

And yet so many men —the Lords of Creation— want to castrate themselves and then ask surgeons to give them a pair of dry dugs.




Why, oh Why?

You're that guy at a party who always manages to say the stupidest possible thing that kills half the party.

Until they realize who it is, and shake their heads and ignore it.


That noted, even for Young Earth Creationists, there's been plenty of time for mutations to mess up any nice binary male/female set-up, so the citation from a document some 4k years old is just silly.

Besides which, theologically it can be argued that if God's image includes both male and female then it can include "mixes" thereof.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just because a male doesn't act like a stereotypical male, or a female doesn't act like a stereotypical female, that doesn't necessarily mean they're "gender fluid" or "gender neutral".
For example, a guy who's interested in cooking isn't "gender fluid", or a girl who's interested in mechanics or construction isn't "gender fluid."
This is one step from telling a guy who has stereotypically feminine interests that he's not actually a man, and he might as well just call himself a girl.

What next, will you start telling lesbians that if they prefer to date butch lesbians, they might as well just go for a man? After all, you basically said that butch women are "genderfluid" and are basically men half the time.

How about telling gay men that they're discriminating and being misogynist if they won't date, or have sex with a woman who "identifies as male on the inside"? (oh wait, that already happens.)

Ah, social gender vs biological gender vs. self-perceived gender.....

Social gender definitions tend to be binary, and any binary definitions in things human are suspect. Thus, you're quite correct.

 

[pat grimshaw]

...my attraction to females is not as broad as it once was

....my attraction to females was socially conditioned.

How many decades till you shake off your social conditioning?

I'm guessing it's six decades to shake off your religious conditioning.

 

[kallipolis]

How many decades till you shake off your social conditioning?

I'm guessing it's six decades to shake off your religious conditioning.

Good observation for we are again returning to the matter of nurture, or nature....or, maybe a little of the two.

Black, and white conclusions never serves us well for the human condition is much complex than simplistic labeling would have us believe.

 

[Kulindahr]

How many decades till you shake off your social conditioning?

I'm guessing it's six decades to shake off your religious conditioning.

Nice misquote. Try to keep up with what I said.