Get Giuliani off the air

[NotHardUp1]

This is exactly what they are doing.

Flooding the news-scape.

Guiliani's outrageous statements detract from Trump's. Trump keeps making more and more outrageous claims every day....amping up the noise so that every performance drowns out the one from about an hour ago and keeps everyone confused and distracted.

Spewing propaganda and opinion until the facts are no longer the focus of the story.

The appearance by Wisconsin's Senator Ron Johnson on NBC's Meet The Press today was embarrassingly bad. He was 110% talking points and wouldn't answer any question relevant to the question asked. Deflection, distraction, and digression. Anything but speak to the reality.

It literally digressed to a shouting match and ended with very terse signoffs.

It is the example of what I have been saying. No matter how impeachment or the election end, the nation will be at one another's throats. Violence is very near.

 

[KaraBulut]

The appearance by Wisconsin's Senator Ron Johnson on NBC's Meet The Press today was embarrassingly bad. He was 110% talking points and wouldn't answer any question relevant to the question asked. Deflection, distraction, and digression. Anything but speak to the reality.

It literally digressed to a shouting match and ended with very terse signoffs.

If you look in the closets and under the beds of the leadership of the Republican Party, you're likely to encounter a lot of guys who are trying to avoid cameras and microphones. No one wants recordings to come back to haunt them in a year when Trump is gone.

No one from the White House disinformation shop is out on the Sunday news programs. Their chaos has turned into chaos. They can't even come up with a message or lies because the ground under their feet is moving so fast and they are seeing Trump unravel.

It is the example of what I have been saying. No matter how impeachment or the election end, the nation will be at one another's throats. Violence is very near.

Do some reading about the period between 1880 and 1920 when the US had regular periods of violence over social inequity. Look at the period from 1967 through 1973. There's nothing like that now. There will be no violence in the streets.

Today, there's too many people with too much to lose. It's always the individuals who have nothing to lose that we have to worry about... well, and the mentally ill, including the mentally ill person in the White House. When Trump's polls drop, his party will turn on him and those Republicans will come out of their closets and from under their beds and they'll do what they always do- come up with a new plan to stay in power.

 

[Sausy]

I think unfortunately you are too optimistic about the essential stability that appears to be present in America today that you don't count what's happening under the surface. And back then, when there were those outbursts of violence, there was no instantaneous media or ability to transmit information. We are a serious recession or serious calamity away from an eruption of civic unrest. We are more polarized than ever.... our faith in our institutions are being tested like never before. It's not just get the orange-hued crackpot in the White House out and everything goes back to the way it was. But Trump came to power as a symptom, the most virulent one, of a whole host of ills that was already infecting the nation... what raised it's ugly head is still out there, waiting to be exploited again. And the profound widening of the difference between visions of what America is and should be isn't going to be healed by Trump being removed through conviction of impeachment, voluntarily resigning( the least likely option) or losing the 2020 election. We're in an era where even in growing economy, the gap between the top tier of wealth and the bottom is widening exponentially and what was once solidly middle class is struggling now... far less secure in their future, and that of their families, than the previous generations. Too many people aren't feeling like they are really benefitting from economic growth. Maybe not desperate yet, but perilously close to it..... maybe not the America divided so much on Vietnam, civil rights... but we are in an era with rapid transformation across the globe putting stresses and strains everywhere. A time it's essential we work together but where our parties and culture are moving apart from each other and where social norms and traditions are thrown out the window.. where we are talking at and over each other, seeing the worst in each other, not only disagreeing but vilifying the other side. We very possibly, maybe probably, will fuck things up beyond repair rather than go back to the world that was(which was being undercut and corroded from below) before Trump.

 

[KaraBulut]

I think unfortunately you are too optimistic about the essential stability that appears to be present in America today that you don't count what's happening under the surface. And back then, when there were those outbursts of violence, there was no instantaneous media or ability to transmit information. We are a serious recession or serious calamity away from an eruption of civic unrest. We are more polarized than ever.... our faith in our institutions are being tested like never before.

I don't disagree with this, I just don't see a group of radicals who would sacrifice their freedom out of loyalty to Trump.

Trump has eroded the fragile coalition that lost the election but won the electoral college. What remains - his most loyal base are older evangelicals - and they're a group that have in the past been supportive of their own false prophets long past the point of reality. Younger evangelicals seem to have caught on to Trump's BS and they want no part of it.

We can't anticipate what the conditions will be in 2020 but Trump's panic at every sign of economic slowdown are a sign that he fears that a downturn in the economy will not be favorable to him.

Maybe not desperate yet, but perilously close to it..... maybe not the America divided so much on Vietnam, civil rights... but we are in an era with rapid transformation across the globe putting stresses and strains everywhere. A time it's essential we work together but where our parties and culture are moving apart from each other and where social norms and traditions are thrown out the window.. where we are talking at and over each other, seeing the worst in each other, not only disagreeing but vilifying the other side. We very possibly, maybe probably, will fuck things up beyond repair rather than go back to the world that was(which was being undercut and corroded from below) before Trump.

Our generation has a false sense of calmness because we had a period of relatively good government prior to 1994 and we've idealized the post-WWII period.

When you hear the perspective from historians, there have been some pretty terrible periods where Americans have been through far more unrest than we see today. When we do have these periods of unrest, we do tend to do crazy things, like elect populists or people who have no experience in government. That seldom goes well and these periods are usually followed by a swing in the other direction.

By the time all the facts come out about what Trump and Barr and Pompeo have been up to, I suspect that Americans (minus evangelical end-timers who awaiting the Rapture) will be disgusted. I'm more worried that the pendulum might swing too far to the left afterward. It's always the radical swings that bring the most trouble and the most unrest.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I would love to be wrong, but I am not, I fear.

Idealogues are being fed a constant diet of hatred from the echo chambers that are the media that creates this division.

Americans have ALWAYS had divergent views and visions of this country. But, in almost all times, we understood that we give way to the majority vote, the courts, and the rule of law.

Today, that is being challenged and rejected from the right and the left. Both have illegitimitized the other in mutual excommunications. You'd think we had opposing popes or something.

What is different is the tone of the exclusions. Both sides are contending the opposing side no longer IS American, but subversive and illegitimate.

In the wake of all that rhetoric, we finally DO have a president who IS committing illegal and unethical acts, and now openly so. The failure of the institution of Congress to act as an institution is deplorable, but not shocking.

I said over a year ago this is similar to the decay of the Roman Senate as the Caesars ascended and the Republic languished in centuries of depravity before its military defeat. We won't enjoy as long a decay with this degree of internal division.

 

[KaraBulut]

The appearance by Wisconsin's Senator Ron Johnson on NBC's Meet The Press today was embarrassingly bad. He was 110% talking points and wouldn't answer any question relevant to the question asked. Deflection, distraction, and digression. Anything but speak to the reality.

I just watched this interview. It's really disconcerting.

Johnson is not just the senator from Wisconsin (he's in the same seat as Joseph McCarthy was in the 1950s, by the way) . Johnson is the Chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee. For the Chair of he Committee to be denigrating and calling into question the reputation of the CIA and FBI is unprecedented. It is a bit like McCarthy accusing the Army of being Communists. Johnson was not only reading the lunatic conspiracy theories from the right, he was irrational and he was shouting during the interview. Chuck Todd was shaking in anger. Senator Coons just looked embarrassed by the conduct of "a friend and colleague".

It's one thing when a back-bencher House member indulges in this kind of rhetoric. When a second term Senator who chairs a major committee does it, it is something to worry about.

Johnson made some remarks in a press interview earlier this week about confronting Trump about withholding the Ukrainian military aid. This Meet the Press interview was probably his penance. But it was like watching someone ending their career. Johnson is just 64 and he's not up for election until 2022, so it's possible he could serve another term. This looked like a desperate man and I suspect that there's more to this story. But there should be questions asked about whether he's an appropriate person to chair Homeland Security... one of several Senate Chairs that we should be concerned about.

 

[mikey3000]

It took me way too long to figure out there is a huge difference between a liberal and a leftist (often disguised by calling themselves "progressives"). Liberals are open-minded and want to hear both sides of an argument. The far left which sadly now includes most of the Democrat party and most of the media (they should call themselves the Democrat Party News) are the most intolerant and closed-minded people I have ever met. They have no intention of hearing what the other side has to say and rather want to shut them up and shout them down.

It's ok man, better late than never. Everyone else is also getting woke to the rabid left. They have completely gone off the rails with their loss of power, they're not even making sense any more. And everyone is watching.

 

[Sausy]

I'm sorry, but if I were Johnson I would not take the assurance of this President that there was no quid pro quo. He probably knows deep in his gut he was doing the wrong thing today by doing a 180 and spouting all the right wing wack job conspiracy points. Lindsey Graham also today saying he wants to make sure the whistleblowers have to appear in public to testify is outrageous.... whatever has possessed Miss Lindsey's soul, it's ugly and selfish , hypocritical and full of shit.

 

[KaraBulut]

...whatever has possessed Miss Lindsey's soul, it's ugly and selfish , hypocritical and full of shit.

Sen Graham is one of the other embarrassing chairs- he was oddly relocated from Senate Defense to Judiciary and he was made chair in order to assure that the more outrageous judiciary candidates were rubber stamped through the process. There's a strange bargain there that eventually will come to light and it probably has to do with Miss Lindsey's personal life. It's the only explanation for how someone who claimed to be among John McCain's and Joe Biden's closest of friends has turned into a Trump ally and frequent Trump weekend golf buddy.

Something to think about... can anyone name the Democrat who is running against Graham in 2020? Nope? Well, here's what you need to know: he's a black man running in South Carolina and he's trailing Graham 50-43 in the latest poll. A white Republican who has been in Congress since the mid 90s only has a 7 point lead against a relatively unknown black Democrat in South Carolina. If that's not a shocker, then I don't know what is.

These men- Giuliani, Graham, McConnell- guys who had long histories in politics with formerly good reputations as moderate Republicans aren't going to be treated well by history.

 

[NotHardUp1]

A white Republican who has been in Congress since the mid 90s only has a 7 point lead against a relatively unknown black Democrat in South Carolina. If that's not a shocker, then I don't know what is.

I do.

It's demographics.

The state is 27% Black, and only 7% of them vote Republican.

The Caucasian population is 23% Democrat.

Add to those two bases the nominal amount of independents and it's actually similar to Democrat minorities in many red states.

The majority is still the majority and gerrymandering helps keep it so. I'd love to see Graham defeated, but not holding my breath. Old bastards die hard.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I'm sorry, but if I were Johnson I would not take the assurance of this President that there was no quid pro quo.

How he could sit there and play violin music for Trump like he was some martyred JFK or MLK, how the press and Congress had refused to give Trump a honeymoon or a chance to succeed.

Fuck all was said about how Trump used a birther conspiracy to foster a racist backlash against Obama.

Fuck all was said about how Trump used a scorched earth campaign to degrade his own party rivals in the election.

Fuck all was said about Trump's cynical pivot to adopt conservative speech and policies about abortion and religion that he was known to oppose before running for president.

Fuck all was said about how Trump's tenure in office has been one continuous series of temper tantrums and moronic statements, often walked back 180 degrees after backlash to the point that he is assumed to be lying at all times.

The craven toadies like Rubio and Graham deserve to be derided as the cowards they are for their about faces. For all his faults, Senator Romney at least isn't a suck-ass coward. He's actually a leader.

 

[Sausy]

Graham is trying to avoid a primary challenge from the Trump insane right, he knows the tighter he is with Trump and defending most of his policies no matter how fucked up, the more he is secure in his office and power.... it's not just that Democratic challenger being uncharacteristically close in the polls Graham is crapping in his pants about. So he goes from fervent Trump critic during the 2016 race... and everyone remember just how childish and insulting Trump was to all of his rivals back then. Even went so far to spout out conspiracy crap like Ted Cruz' father was somehow involved in the Kennedy assassination. Is getting the bulk of the conservative agenda(increased defense spending, corporate and personal tax cuts, cutting regulation, conservative judges) worth selling their very souls for this miserable bastard's benefit?

I give Romney a lot of credit, though he didn't go so far as to endorse impeachment... yet. One of the most powerful criticisms Romney made is that Trump's crusade against corruption is only aimed against one family... the Bidens. Trump never goes against corruption except when it's to his political benefit. He still has the back of Paul Manafort, his corrupt campaign manager who actually had a powerful position helping the uber-corrupt pro-Russian Ukrainian government and skimming billions for himself. Oh, and while searching high and low for Hunter and Joe Biden corruption, Ukrainian friends and associates of Rudy Giuliani were hoping to horn in on the main Ukrainian energy company's gravy train and get pro-Trump people added to the board... steer business in a very Trump friendly direction... so I guess corruption is fine if it benefits Donald Trump and his friends. Trump now screeches about "impeaching" Romney(only thing that could happen in reality is a recall vote which is highly unlikely)… hope Romney maintains his spine and helps others in the GOP Senate find their own spine, though on that count I'm not holding my breath.

 

[TX-Beau]

They have pics of Miss Lindsey with the cabana boy's cock in his mouth.

I'm not excusing Mittens until he commits, yeah, they hate each other - we already knew that, but WILL he say impeach. HELL no.

 

[KaraBulut]

This article made me chuckle. Stop talking? Too late for that!

‘Stop talking’: Trump advisers want Giuliani dumped [Politico]

For weeks, prominent Republican advisers have been privately imploring President Donald Trump to sideline Rudy Giuliani after a barrage of inconsistent, combative and occasionally cringe-inducing media interviews, according to three people familiar with the conversations.

And that was before the arrest of two foreign-born businessmen who reportedly helped Giuliani try to discredit former Vice President Joe Biden, the leading Democrat to take on Trump in next year’s election. Several reports have indicated Giuliani himself may be caught up in the probe.

Yet Trump remains linked to Giuliani, who was initially hired to help fend of Robert Mueller’s Russia investigators, but who now may have pulled the president into another investigation — one that might lead to impeachment. While the president has long appreciated Giuliani’s pugnacious and never-back-down attitude, Trump allies fear Giuliani will damage Trump with his long-winded monologues and free-wheeling accusations.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I give Romney a lot of credit, though he didn't go so far as to endorse impeachment... yet. One of the most powerful criticisms Romney made is that Trump's crusade against corruption is only aimed against one family... the Bidens. Trump never goes against corruption except when it's to his political benefit. He still has the back of Paul Manafort, his corrupt campaign manager who actually had a powerful position helping the uber-corrupt pro-Russian Ukrainian government and skimming billions for himself. Oh, and while searching high and low for Hunter and Joe Biden corruption, Ukrainian friends and associates of Rudy Giuliani were hoping to horn in on the main Ukrainian energy company's gravy train and get pro-Trump people added to the board... steer business in a very Trump friendly direction... so I guess corruption is fine if it benefits Donald Trump and his friends. Trump now screeches about "impeaching" Romney(only thing that could happen in reality is a recall vote which is highly unlikely)… hope Romney maintains his spine and helps others in the GOP Senate find their own spine, though on that count I'm not holding my breath.

The fact that Romney will be sitting as juror in the Senate trial means he cannot go beyond a certain point before the trial is held. He is doing the right thing in contradicting the not guilty claims while waiting for the trial to come.

And his constituency is the LDS in Utah. They have hated Trump from the beginning because they mean what they say about leading by example. As little as I care for them institutionally, they don't split hairs about toeing the line.

Romney is probably the most venerated Mormon outside the church's councils and hierarchies. His role in the Olympic Games alone cemented that, only to be raised when he became a viable presidential candidate.

For them, he is prestige in a world where LDS is starved for respect. They won't be recalling him.

In the coming weeks, when he takes a stand, it will be to the instant shame of all those Fundamentalists who stayed home and cost the election when he ran. At least he is standing by his stated values, not being duplicitous like Graham, Cruz, and so many others.

 

[Sausy]

What I'm expecting from the Senate Republicans is a serious approach concerned with the facts of the case, not to run interference for the President and obstruct and distract and vilify the impeachment process. Even in Watergate, there wasn't a rush of Republicans to turn against President Nixon, that happened in the later stages after the tapes were revealed and it became just how clear Nixon had run afoul of the law. Romney's not yet in the camp of supporting removal but I have no doubt he will weigh the evidence presented very carefully and methodically, and come to a conclusion based on what has been presented... he's going to stand for what he believes is best for the nation in moving forward. He may still feel that as morally wrong as the President's actions have been, particularly here, it doesn't warrant impeachment(an opinion I cannot share, this kind of situation is from I can see one that begs for the impeachment process to remove a huge stain on the nation in respect for rule of law and faithfully executing the duties of the office of President)but he will at least stand for rebuking the President's conduct and holding that our President must be seen as one whose intents and words are worthy of trust and respect here and abroad... I'm sure whatever the outcome, we will hear strongly from him about character and dignity and respect for the office. You're right, despite Trump's ham handed call for Romney's "impeachment"(rather, recall... the ignoramus Trump can't even bother to look up Wikipedia for something as simple as that) Utah residents love Mitt and his family's place in the LDS world and won't even think of recalling him. I don't love him(the 47% remark even he regarded as a terrible mistake, his move from moderate to liberal closer in spirit to his dad to establishment conservative viewpoints is a turnoff to me. But where the Republicans are now, with those cowards and hypocrites like those you've mentioned... Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, and others like Marco Rubio and Mitch Mc Connell... Romney stands as a veritable statesman. People like him are almost extinct in the party that has tied itself to the far right evangelicals, Tea Party wingnuts, and Koch Brothers type anti government extremists. The moderate conservative right IS their center now, and Mitt is one of its few leaders with the power and credibility to stand up to the rest of the GOP and hold firm on basic values we have to uphold to remain a nation worth a damn.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I'm afraid it is a foregone conclusion that the Senate trial will be a circus. There will be setup questions for the Secretary of State, for Giuliani, for Ukrainians, and others, that will be nothing more than continued attempts to divert the question again to Biden's dealings.

They will use the proceedings to talk about Hillary, Biden, Obama, and yes, even Al Gore if they have time. They will do everything they can to confuse the issue and play to Trump's base.

 

[Sausy]

If that's what Senate Republicans are going to do, even as we learn more about how bogus that anti-corruption inquiry led by Giuliani with his cohorts Lev and Igor... I hope that they lose the Senate and tear themselves apart as a party. A few will conduct themselves as public servants, like Mitt... but of all people to put their cards with, Donald Trump is as repugnant and undeserving as can be. If Graham, Cruz and others keep up the circus, it's on them and we all should remember what they decided to prioritize. And it isn't America.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Unfortunately, the base for Trump already made their decision to sell out the values of their religion AND the Constitution when they chose the outsider to finally get their way in the government, even by dismantling it.

The only Republicans who will be ousted will be the ones where independents or moderate Republicans exist in large enough numbers to tip the scales.