getting a little thick in here

[Andreus]

the Anti Muslim rhetoric flares up at JUb every once in a while, and Its happening again.

This doesn't really help understanding or peace in any way

befrore you guys post things, you should consider if this is the world you really want to live in.

a world where we all stay in our own corner and refuse to consider someone elses ideas or feelings is a world that gay people always get hurt in.

the next time you are feeling liek judging a group of people for doing things differently and in ways that are outside of your perspective, just ask yourself....

Is this how I want to be treated as a gay man?

Is this the world I want to live in?

Do I want to be part of the solution or the problem?

as for me, I can tell you, it gets hard to tell my more rigid muslim brothers that they are wrong when they think that the west world wants only to harm us when its painfully obvious that in many ways they are right in their asessment.

As a gay man I can either be a bridge or a wall.

I can either connect the two or hold them apart by my presence

I want to be a bridge

what do you want to be?

 

[ahotjock71]

I haven't seen any of it in Hot Topics?

Such discussion would be expected in the Political &/or Religion forums I guess, but I steer well clear of those.

 

[GL]

If I may, there has also been an undercurrent of Anti-American sentiment brewing around here as well over the last couple of weeks. You can't even wish your Canadian friends a Happy Thanksgiving without seeing some snide remarks. I try to rationalize it as folks being unhappy with our government and not the people in general. But that only goes so far.

 

[Andreus]

ben actually meant well in that thread, but it brings out the worst in people.

i just want to remind people that we are all different and if we extend understanding then we will get it.

a year ago i would have been angry and yelling

ive softened up a bit

now it just makes me very very sad.

 

[Andreus]

If I may, there has also been an undercurrent of Anti-American sentiment brewing around here as well over the last couple of weeks. You can't even wish your Canadian friends a Happy Thanksgiving without seeing some snide remarks. I try to rationalize it as folks being unhappy with our government and not the people in general. But that only goes so far.

yeah

we seem to be really intollerant of our differences as of late

i guess its a miracle that we all get along as well as we do considering the global nature of jub

we just need to look at it and ask if it's really what we want sometimes.

 

[Andreus]

its sprung up in three places in this forum in the last few days...

and it rarely has to do with the intent of the thread starter...

those with a longer memory of jub events knows that overall we are doing better now than ever before, and this weekends events are isolated

I just want people to know that its important that they stay that way

i'm not interested in bashing an individual or JUb...

I just want us to all consider that when we are being intollerant of different people, we are promoting a mindset that hurts us everyday we walk down the street

 

[metta]

Big JUB !​

 

[Andreus]

Exactly Hard up...

you and i have so much to disagree on, but because we treat our differences with respect we have become friends

that is what i mean

we have become a bridge into each others lives when we had the potential to build more walls

we did it by choosing to take the time and effort to see each other as fellow human beings before anything else

You have taught me much about hope

hugs

 

[Homoerectus]

And while we are talking about being open-minded, let us not forget that a nun was killed in East Africa and seven Christian churches were set afire after Pope Benedict XVI's recent and unfortunate remarks. Let's not forget the riots and deaths across the Islamic world because of the Danish newpaper editorial cartoons showing depicting Mohammed; Theo van Gogh's brutal stabbing and throat cutting for making a short movie about Muslim mistreatment of women; death threats against Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Muslim woman working for female equality in Islam; fatwah and death sentence against Salman Rushdie for writing Satanic Verses. Let's not forget the Arabs across the Islamic world who celebrated in the streets when 3,000 Americans died in the World Trade Center attack (before we invaded Afghanistan or Iraq). Do you remember Nick Berg's and Daniel Perle's beheadings? Do you recall any Islamic leader or group vigoroulsy denouncing any of the brutal, violent acts I described above? Show me a group movement of Muslims who are working for freedom of religion, press, speech and equality and I'll shake their hands. I am not anti-Muslim, I am anti: violence, persecution, theocracy and inquisitions by any religion. Until the Muslims walk-the-walk as well as talk-the-talk, I'll judge them by their actions and the company they keep.

 

[Andreus]

homoerectus that post is a prime example of what I am talking about

you have taken the oportunity to engender understanding and used it to cling to stereotypes, fear, and hate.

You are not interested in understanding. you want us all to stay in our separate corners untill you are not scared anymore

None of those things happened on JUb and certainly none of those things were done by people on JUB

shame on you

you have judged the entire people one and a half billion on the actions you have viewed of several hundreds

And you want the muslims to not view you the same way in the same breath

that is soo very sad

what you are saying is...I am not going to stop hating unless every one of the muslims alive proves to me uniquivocably that they love me and mean me no harm.

that is not going to happen and it is a cozy excuse for prejudice

 

[jordyy]

Homoerectus,
I agree that many in the Muslim world generalize Americans as evil and greedy people worth hating, and thus can claim to hate America, or Americans. But it is up to us to remember NOT to generalize, to remember that not all Muslims feel that way. So, while there are ignorant people on both sides of the battle, remember to not judge someone until you know what they stand for. It is better to err on the side of love than to hate without reason.

 

[Pringle]

Andreus - I have nothing to add to the political and religious themes of this thread. I do try and avoid that but your posts are inspirational. It is true that there is stuff you say that I don't agree with (I'm sure it works both ways) but you articulate yourself so well that I know that we could have a mature debate on any such diasgreement and both come away from it having learned something and still be friends.

I think that is a great personality trait and the sentiments of this thread are spot on. Sometimes I think people are very quick to judge others posts, we must all remember that not everyone can articulate themselves so well but that doesn't mean their opinion is invalid.

If people shut there minds to others then they are effectively preventing themselves from potentially improving their own opinions.

 

[Andreus]

this isnt about the media

its just about the guys at jub being respectfull if they disagree

at least remember that we are all different and have been hurt by others judging us because we are different. if we want to live in peace we better start building a world that respects differences and disagrees with respect or we are all screwed.

 

[dw8038r2]

Last night I went to an Open House at the local mosque. The dozens of people I knew there and many of those whom I didn't made it a point to come up and make me feel very welcome. My students in particular were so glad that I cared enough for their culture and religion to attend. The meal served after the breaking of the fast was delicious--it seems like everyone outdid each other in culinary masterpieces.

Of course we all know in our heads that good people don't do terroristic acts, but sometimes it takes a little one-on-one sharing and fellowship to remember it in our hearts as well. I felt like I'd spent an enjoyable evening among real friends.

My guess is that many JUBbers live in communities with few or no Muslims, so they can't interact as neighbors. That's unfortunate.

 

[hawkia]

Personally I think that there are a lot of Christians that have chosen to overlook the crusades. Talk about bloody. But the point remains you cannot judge a religion, race, sexual orentation based on a minority of it's members. I would think that those of us that are queer would avoid that at all costs. Unfortunately reality is reality. I choose bridge.

 

[jordyy]

That's almost like one of those "Pot calling kettle black" statements if you ask me.

I think if you look at that blurb you wrote and reversed that to "American world generalize etc... etc..." You'd have the sam epost only in reverse.

Seriously.... Things just aren't black and white like that.
There's problems on both sides, and the media isn't making it any better.

That was exactly my point. People on both sides do the exact same thing. And if nobody takes the initiative to stop doing that, then nothing will change. Thus, "That's why it's up to us to remember NOT to generalize."

 

[GL]

And while we are talking about being open-minded, let us not forget that a nun was killed in East Africa and seven Christian churches were set afire after Pope Benedict XVI's recent and unfortunate remarks. Let's not forget the riots and deaths across the Islamic world because of the Danish newpaper editorial cartoons showing depicting Mohammed; Theo van Gogh's brutal stabbing and throat cutting for making a short movie about Muslim mistreatment of women; death threats against Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Muslim woman working for female equality in Islam; fatwah and death sentence against Salman Rushdie for writing Satanic Verses. Let's not forget the Arabs across the Islamic world who celebrated in the streets when 3,000 Americans died in the World Trade Center attack (before we invaded Afghanistan or Iraq). Do you remember Nick Berg's and Daniel Perle's beheadings? Do you recall any Islamic leader or group vigoroulsy denouncing any of the brutal, violent acts I described above? Show me a group movement of Muslims who are working for freedom of religion, press, speech and equality and I'll shake their hands. I am not anti-Muslim, I am anti: violence, persecution, theocracy and inquisitions by any religion. Until the Muslims walk-the-walk as well as talk-the-talk, I'll judge them by their actions and the company they keep.

This is the saddest thing I've read in weeks. I will not deny that every act you mentioned is atrocious. But I will argue with you that this is the feeling of every Muslim on the planet. Would you agree with the closed minds who think that because you are gay you are automatically a pedophile and a sexual deviant? Because you painted the Muslim community with the same broad stroke. Just a different color of paint.

 

[Sausy]

I think how the skepticism or concern over the intentions of Muslims is better addressed through trying to work with those who are reformers and peacemakers in the communities,rather than negatively and contemptuously dismissing most Muslims as as evil.I think the problem of cultural and religious tension is not as bad as homoerectus painted it,but not just a tiny minority.Christians can't be too harsh or judgemental,as for the longest time they acted in precisely the same manner to Muslims,Jews..different denominations of themselves,even.The best thing is to have dialogue,work through hard effort and compromise difficulties and differences,but understand that institutions and media in most middle Eastern countries are tightly controlled and dissension is strictly limited.Muslims for the most part want what most of us want...a good life for our ourselves and our families,a roof over our heads,stable communities...hopefully one day soon,they will get that that chance the loud,violent and hateful among them are dismissed as fools and hypocrites by the community at large.Through as many channels as possible,we should support those who bring the hope of progress,freedom,and religious moderation...while working to keep up ourselves to renounce bigotry and prejudice towards the whole for the actions of some.

 

[Andreus]

i am a moderate and i am dismissed regularly

its sad because i am fought as if I am the enemy by non muslims and in reality I am a loud voice for change within my community. I fight for the things that people complain about.

as the amish people say

pray but move your feet

I dont wait around for the change to come to me. I fight the good fight from within, respecting the truth and the people involved.

 

[bayern20]

I'm Muslim as well, and I simply do not listen to it.

We see Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other muslim nations in the news, and it has nothing to do with them being muslim. Where there is poverty, there are problems. Some of us lose our internet connection and we go nuts, these people are on a daily bases being oppressed or just do not have what we have. You stay in that situation long enough, the same thing happens. You act in ways you otherwise would not. Democracy is a pretty crappy option when everything is in chaos.