Gingrich says Spanish is Ghetto language

[playwithmemonkey]

actually 75 percent of the nation is fed up with the administration

so it would seem that you guys are actually the few that are FAR right of center and out of touch with american goals, values, and voter mandates

as for how this fits into this on topic discussion i cant imagine other than that the Gin Grinch is setting himself up to be the heir apparent to all that ails the american presidency curently

Not everyone in this nation is fed up with the administration because it is too far right. Some of the lefty loonies are, but many of the conservatives, like myself, hate the presient because of his open border/amnesty/globalization policies, big government policies, and the way that the administration has handled the war. So I would say that you are wrong to assume that everyone who disaproves of the president is left of center. I would actually argue that the president is left of center on government issues and say that the only areas that he would fall right of center would be social things like Abortion, gay marriage and terrorism. [edit: removed baiting comments]

 

[Sausy]

Gingrich was completely misunderstood or misrepresented in this....he was trying to underscore that limiting yourself to your native language(especially when we no longer live in a manufacturing based economy but a knowledge and technical one demanding education in the language of the nation as a whole tp prosper and progress)you will segregate yourself from any chance of escaping a life of struggle,low wages and social problems.My friends on the left hear a word like "ghetto"which he meant to represent the early century segregated ethnic ghettoes where recent immigrants congregated,not Spanish -speaking people as a whole,and their political correctness and hysteria bubbles over the surface.....much ado about nothing,and his words actually were very constructive if you could get over the phobia of anything Republican and think about what he said..if you were being fair,you'd say he has some good arguments at the least.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Alright gentleman, this is an On-Topic thread.

I've edited out the off-topic, and baiting comments from two previous posts in this thread.

Please don't force me to removed the entire posts.

Stay on-topic, and off other posters.

Thanks!

 

[Sausy]

I agree with you Sausage. When I actually read his comments there was no mention of Spanish whatsoever. He meant his statement to try to lift people out of poverty by becoming part of the economy, not losing their identity.

[edit: removed baiting comment]

Gingrich was a history professor,remember.....not a lawyer or political insider.He is very formidable intellectually ,very curious and brilliant.He has at times earlier in his career as a young Congressman been guilty of verbal excesses in combating the then prevalent,tired ineffective and corrupt liberal Democratic stranglehold on the Congress...and he has been callous and insensitive in his personal life,especially leaving his cancer stricken wife and not even delivering the news personally.

But he has never been a hater and exteme social conservative,and is more in line with being one of the most innovative and creative conservative thinkers in the nation.If he actually thinks of Hispanic immigrants in that fashion(in which there is absolutely NO evidence is the case) it would be completely out of character and completely dismaying and worthy of condemnation....but in this case it appears wishful thinking rather than bigotry and intolerance on Gingrich's part ruled the thinking process of those believing this to be true.

 

[Ramindra]

"The American people believe English should be the official language of the government. ... We should replace bilingual education with immersion in English so people learn the common language of the country and they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto," Gingrich said to cheers from the crowd of more than 100."

What a wonderful crowd turned up to hear Newt's erudite pronouncements. A crowd of more than a 100! WOW! He is really dragging them in these days. Next time he will probably have to hire the rec room at the Seniors Centre to fit all his admirers in.

I can just hear the tumultuous noise of one hand clapping.

 

[69Strat]

Not surprising - isn't the current administration the one who acts in a very unamerican way?

I don't see the current administration as being unamerican, since Bush is an ardent supporter of putting undocumented workers on the fast track to citizenship.

 

[smelter]

Without a doubt, Newt is smart but I don't share the opinion that he ranks as one of our great intellects. In one of her columns, Molly Ivans, that great Texas lady once wrote:

That silly, hypocritical blowhard, that ridiculous pseudo-intellectual with a nasty streak a mile wide. You may have forgotten Newt's advice to Republicans before the 1994 congressional elections, but I haven't. That was the infamous memo from his political action committee, GOPAC, saying that the R's should describe their D opponents -- no matter who they were or what their records -- as "sick," "pathetic," "bizarre," "twisted" and "traitor." If you want to know when and why civil political discourse in this country broke down, try that memo.

Newt Gingrich is the polar opposite of a diplomat. The only instinct he has is for the jugular. The colossal hypocrisy of his performance during Ken Starr's investigations would have made the sanctimonious Uriah Heep blush.

 

[Nishin]

Btw Andreus France requires that all buisuness be conducted in french. So that is not the case in all european countries. I also believe that the Netherlands has Danish as it official language as well.

I think Andreus said "most"... not "all"...
As about the official languages of the Netherlands, they are Dutch and Frisian.

Um, actually, that isn't quite true. Albeit "French" is the official language of the French Republic, per the current constituation, the people who are the "French" speak a multiplicity of languages. The French govenrment has itself identified 75+ of them in a study it conducted a few years back, when they were considering ratifiying the EU charter for regional and minority languages. There are goodly portions of France where the lingua franca of daily life is something other than franca.

France also does not preclude the use of language(s) other than French. By law, the French govenrment must communicate primarily in French, but there is no prohibition on governmental use of other languages. Likewise, French law does not preclude the public use of other languages. Commercial advertising, for example, must include French, but it is not limited to that language.

Exactly, the only thing mandatory is a translation (ie: as a foot page note) of foreign words in official documents.
Besides, while the official language of the country is French, several regions recognize local languages which are taught in bilingual schools and used in names of towns or on road signs... some (rare) elder people don't speak french at all.

 

[Ramindra]

So, what you've taken out of this discussion is that he spoke in front of 100 people? Okay, I guess that's on topic. Did you see that it was at a meeting of the National Federation of Republican Women? It wasn't a political rally. Do you chastise Hillary when she meets with her staff and only gets a turnout of 12? It's all about size with some of you guys.

And, would you please stop baiting me, I'm centagoraphobic.

For starters, I was not baiting you or anyone else so please try not to get too excited.

Maybe I was just being a little too subtle. What I was trying to say was that perhaps the numbers in the audience indicated the importance which should be placed on what the former speaker said or says. Or put another way, does anyone really care what Gingrich says any more, even if it is perhaps insulting to certain members of society?

PS If I were you, I would seek medical attention for that phobia of yours.

 

[LaloGS]

He is such a fucking idiot! Plain and simple

While I agree with Danno that Gingrich is another moronic idiot on the order of Geroge W. his point, aside from his attempt at controversy by calling Spanish a Ghetto language, seems to me to be valid.

If people from any foreign country want to emigrate to America, they should consider they will have to learn the language most frequently spoken on at least official documents.

I live in a Spanish speaking country, although I was born and raised in the US, and here, in Colombia, foreign people need to speak at least some Spanish to get along. Without it, they get nowhere. And even though English is taught in the public schools, it is not taught in a bi-lingual manor. It's taught as a foreign language requirement, because English is recognized as the language of business world wide.

The question I would ask, is: Why do government bureaucrats believe it is necessary to make it more difficult for emigrants to assimilate into the American mainstream culture?

By providing the means for emigrant communities to maintain their own language and cultures, they are actually hindering their assimilation goals. People generally come to America for a better chance than what they had in their birth country, but certainly can't achieve the better life if they are prevented by language from doing it.

I just wonder what administration promoted the idea that we need to pander to every language with multiple printings of official documents, and teaching in multiple languages in the public schools? Any one know? Republican of Democrat?

 

[smelter]

Yes, she said those things about him...and look what happened to her.

C'mon Mowrest, this is only a political forum discussion .... if you are implying that Molly Ivans death from cancer was payback ..... thats a bit overboard don't ya think?

Please tell me I misunderstood your intent!

 

[texpatriot]

Yes, she said those things about him...and look what happened to her.

So in addition to being an "adulterous hypocrite," and that Gingrich "eats babies," we want to ad to the list that he's a "voodoo practicioner."

I wonder is his supporters are aware of his change of religious affiliation.



Gingrich can't hold a candle to the person that Molly Ivans was in life.

You can take that to the bank.

 

[Nishin]

Oh, who would you say that I see for my fear of crowds of 100 people?

Fear of people is called anthropophobia... agoraphobia is a fear of not being able to escape an embarassing situation...
Oh, also the greek prefix for 100 is hecto.

 

[chance1]

Gingrich was completely misunderstood or misrepresented in this....he was trying to underscore that limiting yourself to your native language(especially when we no longer live in a manufacturing based economy but a knowledge and technical one demanding education in the language of the nation as a whole tp prosper and progress)you will segregate yourself from any chance of escaping a life of struggle,low wages and social problems.My friends on the left hear a word like "ghetto"which he meant to represent the early century segregated ethnic ghettoes where recent immigrants congregated,not Spanish -speaking people as a whole,and their political correctness and hysteria bubbles over the surface.....much ado about nothing,and his words actually were very constructive if you could get over the phobia of anything Republican and think about what he said..if you were being fair,you'd say he has some good arguments at the least.

why let the facts get in the way of a good story

learning the english language should be the minimum requirement no?

too funny all this PC bullshit

 

[Kurn]

I'm all for the American Way: Live and let live. Don't write laws that are unnecessary. Don't write laws that provoke inhumane conditions. That is, let people work it out where they live.

English is already as "official" as it needs to be. It is the language of the Constitution and of our Codes, etc, etc.

Spanish and, in some areas, French, are special case languages. They are native to regions that did not originally belong to the United States.
Like the Spanish-speakers, the French-speakers, and even some folks from the Pennsylvania Dutch country, the Native Americans all speak languages which are NOT the languages of immigrants!!

English, in its nerves, is the language of freedom and it would be exceedingly contrary to force people to learn it. Rather, we should invite people to participate. In many cases, it will require learning to find common ground before there is the success desired.

As far as accomodating the languages of "true" immigrants I have this suggestion.
Let nature take its course, a nature softened by intercultural communication, certainly. We should look on this extra effort as a way to improve our status in the World Marketplace.

Does this brief comment make it clear enough?

 

[frankfrank]

On a similar note, Italian just became the official language of Italy

This one surprised me; I long assumed that the United States was the ONLY "major" nation in the world which does not have one or more *OFFICIAL* languages. Besides the U.S., was Italy the final holdout or are there others? Of course having an offician language does not prevent people from talking in other languages. It is fairly easy to walk streets in Vancouver and hear conversations in Hindi or Chinese; one can walk streets in Toronto and occasionally hear people conversing in Portuguese or Italian, etc. I heard an unintelligible conversation in Winnipeg which was probably Ukrainian. I an NOT talking about tourists, but people who live in those cities. Canada is the only example that I'm comfortable with mentioning, as I have little experience in any other foreign country, the U.S. has no official language, and my experiences in Mexico are limited to border cities which do not give a true idea. (I do assume that Mexico DOES have Spanish, rather than none, as its official language.)

Are there any other major countries in the world - ones with (say) more than 30 to 50 million people - without an official language?

My post here should not be construed as any kind of opinion about the merits or disadvantages of an official U.S. language - it's just something that's had me curious for a very long time.

 

[Kurn]

The basic governance of countries like Mexico and France, French colonies, ex-Spanish countries and many others is by authoritative laws.
This is not the American way, although I easily understand how this has become confused over the decades.

Why should loyal Canadians, by the way, speak Ukrainian in Winnipeg?? Well, maybe it helps them to keep alive certain ideas and sentiments and social institutions that might not have survived the Soviet era. Perhaps that is very important to them.
Or, if they are recent immigrants, maybe they still have more close Ukrainian-speaking friends than English or French-speaking friends.

"UNITY" is never real if it is a product of deliberate force and oppression!

 

[LaloGS]

Lalo, I don't think it was any one administration. Education, for the most part, is left up to each individual state (with some federal funding). I'd presume that bilingual education started at different points in each state.

My memory, however, is that it started in California and Texas in the 70s.

Subsequent studies have shown that, the later that English is introduced as the main language, the less fluency the student has. (Pardon the grammar.) In some Texas cities, English is not introduced until the high school years. What foolishness! You have the enigma of students trying to go to nursing school with only the barest fluency in English.

I think it's time to end this failed experiment.

I agree with you completely. I used to teach at The Los Angeles Art Institute, and the number of students with only moderate language skills was only surpassed by the number of students who couldn't read and understand a sentence. But then on the other hand, I taught a special summer seminar for high school teachers, and I don't think I ever met a more ignorant group than they were in their own subject of choice.

I taught color theory, and all of the teachers in my summer seminar were HS art teachers with degrees in Art teaching, but none, and I repeat, none of them had even a moderate grasp of basic color theory, and the more advanced color course I was teaching, went way over their heads. Public education in the US is really and truly fucked if you ask me.