Glee! [merged]

[K3V587]

Totally agree man god knows when i was the bully if i dared kiss another dude id expect him to out me right there and then!

Wow... seriously?

Dude, why wouldn't Kurt tell someone? Especially this new Blaine guy he just met?

He's been bullied, and he got kissed in a locker room. Do you know of any self-restraining high schooler that wouldn't tell someone? Or wouldn't tell someone they trusted after being bullied so wrong?

Jesus christ. I know if that happened to me, about 8 people in my phonebook would've gotten a text within the hour that would've said "WTF, Karofsky just kissed me!!!"

 

[heroesnhunks]

4. Kurt outing that football player was good cause to get slammed into that locker at the end. C'mon someone just committed suicide because someone decided to out them. Kurt should have had more tact toward someone who is closeted GLBT person. I would have liked the show to explore a tentative scene where Kurt could somehow pull him aside and have a talk.

Kurt had every right to tell the one person who might understand about being violated that way - especially when coupled with the violent treatment he'd already been receiving from the self-loathing homophobic bully. He's lucky Kurt didn't go to Mr. Schuster and REALLY embarrass him.

I wasn't expecting the kiss, so they succeeded in making it the surprise they wanted. I can see how some might have spotted it tho.

I'm wondering where they plan to go with Dave - will they take the road of self exploration 90210 has Teddy Montgomery on? Or will he remain as is?

 

[Hellax24]

Killjoke, I realize that the recent suicides are still fresh and painful, however, they can be likened to anyone of those guys. You not being "Out" in H.S. means that you were 'Safe" that is not the case with Kurt or Karofsky. As i pointed out earlier there were 2 bullies harassing Kurt, Finn, Rachel etc. So writing it this way was for shock value and playing into the bully being Gay/Bi. That didn't work for me. Kurt does not need to be a victim, yet they choose to write him as such. As, i have stated i was never in the closet i never lied about my sexuality. There's power in that and i was also in High School in the 80's which choose to make a blanket statement that no one was out in high school in the 80's. You enjoyed your high school years because you were not honest about your sexuality. My point was that i could relate more to Kurt then someone who was not out.


People like me stood up and let others know i was not afraid nor ashamed of who i was. I personally would have liked seeing Kurt be more aggressive and not some spineless little girl. Kurt is Fem, that's no big deal, but there are a lot of fem guys who do not take shit from anyone and i just don't mean talking shit but actually standing u for himself by going after Karofsky and knocking the shit out of him. He probably would have lost the fight or shown that he had the balls to not be a victim. The writers didn't write him that way and that is a real problem for me. I for one am sick of the only gays on TV are fem, fragile and defenseless people. Gays that can only relate to girls. The last shot of Kurt was pitiful him just sitting there and taking it. I was raised never to start fights, but if someone started a fight to defend myself and if they were bigger then i am pick something up and beat there ass.

Killjoke, you speak from a place of playing it safe and i from a place of actually being on the front line of of the gay movement. You not telling anyone in high school was easy, i took a more difficult road because i refused to lie and pretend to be anything other then myself. You had every right to do what was best for you and it was your journey, i have pointed out that Karofsky as sad as it is has his own journey.


After Kurt was kissed i saw it as a violation, yet i feel Karofsky that it wasn't thought out or planned on his part. I feel that in the heat of the moment he couldn't tell Kurt he was gay he just reacted. But yes it was a violation to Kurt. Kurt may have had the best intentions by telling Blaine and seeking his help, what i think people are forgetting(Esp. the closeted back in HS) is the fear and utter panic they had if anyone were to find out they were gay. It's not an excuse for what he did or continues to do but it's understandable. Kurt should have thought of what would happen before telling Blaine about Karofsky. The jock being seen with 2 gay guys is a threat to people like Karofsky.

When i was in HS i was a peer counselor and privacy is something you hold sacred. Once Kurt told someone and involved he outed Karofsky. Plain and simple. Blaine is a stranger to Karofsky. Kurt could have slipped a note in the guys locker asking to meet and then ask him to meet someone that could help him. Kurt didn't do that and caused the jock to possibly sink further into the closet and yes those fears could lead to him hurting himself. I can not understand why people are not getting this. Maybe it's because they choose not to because of his past behavior. Also, just because Blaine is out doesn't make him the "Go To Guy". Kurt doesn't know if Blaine can be trusted he just met the guy 2 minutes ago.


Killjoke, If you think that my part in this discussion is sad allow me to pint out that you replied to me in a condescending tone. In discussing bullying in school and outing bringing up the suicide/s are valid even if it makes YOU feel uncomfortable. I assumed you were bullied because your responses read that way. Our views on this is because my POV is from someone who was out at 15 and marched in my first Pride at 16, yours from a place that played it safe and choose not to make yourself a possible target. I have pointed out Kurt's past bad behavior and the stunts he has pulled and you have not addressed that at all. Is it forgivable for him to continue making unwanted advances on a str8 guy even though he clearly knew the guy was str8? Is that a form of Bullying? BTW, what you think of me or the way i have handled this discussion means nothing to me knowing what i know now.

If people liked this ep. Gr8. I will stand by my comments. Kurt is a complete cliche at this point. I personally wouldn't tell someone to bash me. I would have been daring him to do it so i would have an excuse to kick their ass.

CXXX

 

[Hellax24]

Kurt had every right to tell the one person who might understand about being violated that way - especially when coupled with the violent treatment he'd already been receiving from the self-loathing homophobic bully. He's lucky Kurt didn't go to Mr. Schuster and REALLY embarrass him.

I wasn't expecting the kiss, so they succeeded in making it the surprise they wanted. I can see how some might have spotted it tho.

I'm wondering where they plan to go with Dave - will they take the road of self exploration 90210 has Teddy Montgomery on? Or will he remain as is?

He could have told Blaine without naming names. I love the way people keep saying Self-Loathing Homophobe while not even trying to see what is underneath that self loathing. By doing that you may actually see how sad the whole situation is for both of them. Even though the kiss was a violation it was not planned on the part of Karofsky so vilifying him on that is short sighted. It was a heated exchange and probably caught him off guard just as much as it did Kurt.

CXXX

 

[joesman]

If you have never had a tormentor(s) then you are so damn lucky. Bullying is a thing of great physical and mental pain. It lasts you all your life, and will haunt you too many times. Whatever the reason a person bullies does not make it right, fair or legit. If you have ever been a bully yourself you need to make an effort to correct the hateful meanness you have done and hope someone might forgive you. What you have done is scar someone's life forever.

What Kurt did in telling his new friend was not harmful to anyone. It was meant to reach out to the friend and to the tormentor. If Kurt had shouted from the rooftops about the bullies kiss he would have been justified in doing so. The performances from Kurt have been great because we see his weaknesses, his pain, his aloneness and his anger. Finding a new like friend was an amazing treat for me to see.

I have no sympathy for any bully, no matter their mental state or physical state or what they are trying to hide. You have no right to impose your anger on another by hurting them physically or mentally.

 

[bostonboy20]

looks like Darren Criss will be sticking around for awhile

http://www.deadline.com/2010/11/glee-to-promote-darren-criss-to-regular/

 

[maxpowr9]

Ugh last night's episode brought back some old demons that I now laugh at. I was bullied in high school also by the 'jocks' of the school and it definitely got to me like it did to Kurt. If only I knew then what I know now. I learned at my 5 year HS reunion that one of the guys that bullied me was gay and had a thing for me back then. He used to play footsie with me all the time in Physics class but I was too naive/ignorant to know what that meant. I read it as annoying rather than playful. Even to this day, I'm horrible detecting flirtation (unless they're blatantly obvious like grabbing my junk). Of course it didn't help it was a Catholic HS but we live and learn.

 

[treanir]

Re: Glee: Kurt's first kiss with...

I have to say that I saw it coming. Wishful thinking perhaps?

 

[treanir]

Am I the only one who saw that kiss coming?

Absolutely loved the episode, by the way. May have gotten a wee bit weepy. Pushed a few buttons there.

 

[maxpowr9]

Am I the only one who saw that kiss coming?

Absolutely loved the episode, by the way. May have gotten a wee bit weepy. Pushed a few buttons there.

Well statistically speaking, most homophobes are just severe closet cases. I definitely did a "oh snap!" when it happened (built up tension always leads itself to shock value). As I said, if only knew about (homo)sexuality now as I did then, I would have been able to deal with them better.

 

[Corny]

Can anyone explain the Artie/Puck "handshake" thing. Everyone I was watching with thought I was an idiot for not getting it. They were laughing because I didn't understand it. I have never seen anyone do anythng like that before and I really am not sure what they were doing.

you mean the one at the end? i only know this as a very very juvenile thing to do. if your hands are "locked" like that, and the one having his hands horizontal and opens them up to look in the "gap" it kinds looks as if he is looking at a vulva.

 

[AbnormalDann]

Didn't know that Corny, thanks for sharing that! Was hoping someone would come along and clear it up since RyanZZZZ asked!

 

[wubbya]

Re: Glee: Kurt's first kiss with...

max adler's the hottest guy on glee

he needs to take lessons from chord overstreet and take his shirt off

 

[josher]

I agree with Nine of Clubs. Kurt was traumatized by what happened and needed a friend to talk to about it. Kurt and Blaine were trying to help Karofsky.

 

[StlKj]

Killjoke, I realize that the recent suicides are still fresh and painful, however, they can be likened to anyone of those guys. You not being "Out" in H.S. means that you were 'Safe" that is not the case with Kurt or Karofsky. As i pointed out earlier there were 2 bullies harassing Kurt, Finn, Rachel etc. So writing it this way was for shock value and playing into the bully being Gay/Bi. That didn't work for me. Kurt does not need to be a victim, yet they choose to write him as such. As, i have stated i was never in the closet i never lied about my sexuality. There's power in that and i was also in High School in the 80's which choose to make a blanket statement that no one was out in high school in the 80's. You enjoyed your high school years because you were not honest about your sexuality. My point was that i could relate more to Kurt then someone who was not out.


People like me stood up and let others know i was not afraid nor ashamed of who i was. I personally would have liked seeing Kurt be more aggressive and not some spineless little girl. Kurt is Fem, that's no big deal, but there are a lot of fem guys who do not take shit from anyone and i just don't mean talking shit but actually standing u for himself by going after Karofsky and knocking the shit out of him. He probably would have lost the fight or shown that he had the balls to not be a victim. The writers didn't write him that way and that is a real problem for me. I for one am sick of the only gays on TV are fem, fragile and defenseless people. Gays that can only relate to girls. The last shot of Kurt was pitiful him just sitting there and taking it. I was raised never to start fights, but if someone started a fight to defend myself and if they were bigger then i am pick something up and beat there ass.

Killjoke, you speak from a place of playing it safe and i from a place of actually being on the front line of of the gay movement. You not telling anyone in high school was easy, i took a more difficult road because i refused to lie and pretend to be anything other then myself. You had every right to do what was best for you and it was your journey, i have pointed out that Karofsky as sad as it is has his own journey.


After Kurt was kissed i saw it as a violation, yet i feel Karofsky that it wasn't thought out or planned on his part. I feel that in the heat of the moment he couldn't tell Kurt he was gay he just reacted. But yes it was a violation to Kurt. Kurt may have had the best intentions by telling Blaine and seeking his help, what i think people are forgetting(Esp. the closeted back in HS) is the fear and utter panic they had if anyone were to find out they were gay. It's not an excuse for what he did or continues to do but it's understandable. Kurt should have thought of what would happen before telling Blaine about Karofsky. The jock being seen with 2 gay guys is a threat to people like Karofsky.

When i was in HS i was a peer counselor and privacy is something you hold sacred. Once Kurt told someone and involved he outed Karofsky. Plain and simple. Blaine is a stranger to Karofsky. Kurt could have slipped a note in the guys locker asking to meet and then ask him to meet someone that could help him. Kurt didn't do that and caused the jock to possibly sink further into the closet and yes those fears could lead to him hurting himself. I can not understand why people are not getting this. Maybe it's because they choose not to because of his past behavior. Also, just because Blaine is out doesn't make him the "Go To Guy". Kurt doesn't know if Blaine can be trusted he just met the guy 2 minutes ago.


Killjoke, If you think that my part in this discussion is sad allow me to pint out that you replied to me in a condescending tone. In discussing bullying in school and outing bringing up the suicide/s are valid even if it makes YOU feel uncomfortable. I assumed you were bullied because your responses read that way. Our views on this is because my POV is from someone who was out at 15 and marched in my first Pride at 16, yours from a place that played it safe and choose not to make yourself a possible target. I have pointed out Kurt's past bad behavior and the stunts he has pulled and you have not addressed that at all. Is it forgivable for him to continue making unwanted advances on a str8 guy even though he clearly knew the guy was str8? Is that a form of Bullying? BTW, what you think of me or the way i have handled this discussion means nothing to me knowing what i know now.

If people liked this ep. Gr8. I will stand by my comments. Kurt is a complete cliche at this point. I personally wouldn't tell someone to bash me. I would have been daring him to do it so i would have an excuse to kick their ass.

CXXX

I'll make my points, and then I'm not going to engage you on this anymore, because you don't read what people write anyway. You're the one who is condescending and insulting on this thread; you went for the jugular, likening people who don't believe exactly as you to Perez Hilton, insulting us for not knowing our elbows from our asses, etc. You made up a bunch of detail about my life when you don't know shit about me, and you didn't pay attention when I gave details about myself.

For one thing, I never said I "hid" in high school. And I never said people weren't out in the 80s in high school. I said in MY high school, but nice way to ignore that so you could paint whatever picture of me you liked. Did I know I was gay in high school? Yes. Did I have any idea how to be gay in high school in the 80s? No. I said I didn't know if people would have still liked me in high school. It was a nonissue--not because of them, but because my father would quite literally have killed me in a fit of rage if he had found out at that time. Violence in my family had a fairly powerful presence, and someone calling me a "fag" at school would never have been as scary as my father probably choking the life from me.

So bully for you for being out in high school. Truly. That's a great accomplishment. Too bad you have to use it to criticize others for "playing it safe" and "hiding."

I wasn't being condescending when I asked that we please be tactful and considerate in comparing a real young man who was a victim and killed himself to a fictional bully who was tormenting others. You didn't even consider it, and your response was flippant, so mine was in return. I don't shy away from controversial or sensitive topics, but the difference between us apparently is that I do try to be sensitive in discussing them. You prefer instead to attack, accuse and exaggerate to create the enemy you need in order to feel superior.

You were a peer counselor? That's awesome. But I've trained peer listeners now for almost twenty years, and respecting the confidentiality of others has to do with what people share with you/tell you about themselves--not about someone who has repeatedly attacked you physically, and then violates you by kissing you against your will (then tries it again).

I love the stereotypes you use against the character of Kurt--"spineless little girl?" Great way to stereotype gays as well as suggest you're a misogynist. Kurt has confronted these bullies and tried to stand up for himself in some way all along--with his wit. Last night's show was about how it has finally gotten to him after several years of this treatment. Apparently, you don't think it's okay for a person like Kurt to have that weakness; no, you want him to jump in and get physical, seemingly because that's what a man would do. Again, way to reinforce stereotypes.

So, you go ahead and bludgeon everyone else with your superior attitude and your insulting assumptions about others you don't know. The rest of us will just discuss a television show that is presenting issues to a new generation who have never seen these issues explored on television. We will discuss a character who gay teens all over the country, and perhaps beyond, are identifying with and seeing as a role model. And maybe if you're that disgusted with the show and the character, you'll stop watching and we won't have to endure or ignore you in here anymore.

 

[Hellax24]

Killjoke you are right. I misread what you wrote about the HS thing. I didn't twist anything. Once i realized my error i couldn't edit my response. truly, i am sorry about your home life however, you choose not to look at the bigger picture as you have accused me of doing.

Yes. I do not like the way the writer's have painted Kurt as the victim. After all this time whether it was a girl or boy i would think self preservation would have kicked in and he would fight back. Not an act of a man, but an act of a STRONG person. I didn't paint Kurt as a stereotype the show did. I also think that Kurt did bully Finn in a different way but none the less bullying.

I mentioned my being out and a peer counselor because people like me actually had to deal with bullies. Because i know the empowerment that comes from standing him and showing a bully that you would take them on any way they wanted to do it. That can be attributed to any gender. They showed Kurt submitting to the bullying at the end of the episode IMHO.

I'll leave it at that. You have your perspective and i have mine. Unless you have walked in those shoes remember your POV is not really spot on.

Take Care, Killjoke.

CXXX

 

[BlueLantern]

Wow... seriously?

Dude, why wouldn't Kurt tell someone? Especially this new Blaine guy he just met?

He's been bullied, and he got kissed in a locker room. Do you know of any self-restraining high schooler that wouldn't tell someone? Or wouldn't tell someone they trusted after being bullied so wrong?

Jesus christ. I know if that happened to me, about 8 people in my phonebook would've gotten a text within the hour that would've said "WTF, Karofsky just kissed me!!!"

I haven't read the rest of the meassages yet, but I mostly agree, I don't think Kurt did the best thing, but it was the best thing that he could possible thinking in doing.

 

[Apollo]

None actually. It only takes one person to spread the word. Then the guy is jumping off a bridge.



So he demonstrated to Kurt that he has these feelings that apparently he is struggling with and is definitely not ready to be known as anything other then str8 Then the one person that knows goes and tells someone else, who then knows and can then go and tell others. That's outing. Kurt could have talked to Blaine without mentioning names and asked how to approach this guy and make him feel more comfortable about the idea of being something other then str8. For all we know the guy could be Bi. He had no right to tell anyone.

There is a difference between would've, could've and should've. What was given to us was the message that it's ok to out people. What your proposing didn't happen so it's irrelevant. I remember a few episodes back when Kurt's father talked to him about people not being of the same mind as he is and you can't force people to see things the way he does. I guess he didn't get the message. Everyone has their own journey and it's up to them to decide who knows what their sexual orientation is, it's not up to Kurt to decide. The guy is a douche but I'm sure their more then a few guys on this site that was the jock in high school.



Now, exactly who outed you two?

CXXX

You totally missed the whole point of that. He kissed Kurt, Kurt didn't really know how to deal with the situation, so he went to someone he knew could. If you had paid attention, you would have noticed that Blaine isnt the type of person who would go spreading rumors on a guy. And he tried to lend some help, sometimes you have to bring in a outside party to deal with an issue as big as that.

Anyway, good episode, good musical numbers. Nice to see a good gay kiss. It was unexpected sure, but it was real, which is nice to see on network television.

 

[maxpowr9]

You totally missed the whole point of that. He kissed Kurt, Kurt didn't really know how to deal with the situation, so he went to someone he knew could. If you had paid attention, you would have noticed that Blaine isnt the type of person who would go spreading rumors on a guy. And he tried to lend some help, sometimes you have to bring in a outside party to deal with an issue as big as that.

Anyway, good episode, good musical numbers. Nice to see a good gay kiss. It was unexpected sure, but it was real, which is nice to see on network television.

Reckon I'm reading way too much into a TV dramedy but was I the only one confused that Blaine is sending all these notes of "courage" to Kurt yet Blaine plainly states that he ran away from his problems at his public school to go to a private school? How is running away from your problem courageous?

 

[Destron]

Re: Glee: Kurt's first kiss with...

Love Max Adler. I liked the storyline last night (well the whole episode which is a first for this season) and was actually shocked.

Kurt was one lucky guy. Dave can kiss me anytime he wants.

I am also happy Puck is back.