GOP brought this plague on itself

[jbrown329]

Or 40-50%...

Guess we'll find out (numbers) come the primary election.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The presence of the neo Nazis, and the Communists sitting in our parliament evidences that the democratic process is alive in Greece. I despise both extremes.

What ever you, and me think of Trump is not relevant to the need of a democratic society to let extremists such as Trump speak their mind....repulsive as his views are to me.

I don't know Greek laws very well. But I suspect the gap is not because we don't understand the democratic process. I am guessing we can attribute it to norms that seem relatively universal to much of Europe that aren't givens in the United States. Such as restrictions on overt hate speech, bans on overt hate groups. Simply part of the landscape in the U.S. are organizations not even allowed entry to other countries like Canada, such as the Westboro Baptist Church.

You have to go pretty far (virtually into personally participating in planning) in the U.S. to hold any legal culpability at all for encouraging your supporters or crazies to act out against your opposition... whether it's Trump encouraging a crowd to mob a dissenter or Sarah Palin making a hit list on her website with guns and bullseyes.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

The presence of the neo Nazis, and the Communists sitting in our parliament evidences that the democratic process is alive in Greece. I despise both extremes.

What ever you, and me think of Trump is not relevant to the need of a democratic society to let extremists such as Trump speak their mind....repulsive as his views are to me.

I can agree that we should let ourselves listen to differing view points of others, it definitely can lead ourselves to learning something or opening ourselves to new ideas. I don't think Donald Trump is a good example of that, I don't really find any extremists to be good for that to be honest.

 

[jbrown329]

If American Conservatives sounded more like Kevin Phillips, things would be a whole lot different. I've seen Phillips interviewed by Bill Moyers many times. Always a good and interesting interview. While I disagree with Phillips on Reagan, I do agree with him 100% on Bush the Lesser.

Everyone should look up the interviews and make their own judgement. They can be found on the PBS website. Just takes a little looking to find them.

 

[peeonme]

I am sure there are others who gladly support the views of Golden Dawn. The Communists, and their fellow travellers also sit in parliament offering their solutions to the ills that beset Greece. That's how parliamentary democracy works. Everyone should be heard, and everyone should have the right to vote according to their conscience.

Really pretty simple to grasp, however people fear free speech... they might not like what they hear.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Really pretty simple to grasp, however people fear free speech... they might not like what they hear.

There's no such thing. There's free speech tempered by laws and by widely enforced social convention.

Go put up some swaztikas at work and see the reaction.

 

[Kulindahr]

He's NEVER going to have a serious discussion over policy, he will shout and posture and play to the baser natures of haters and in the end, that is EXACTLY what those people want to hear.

There are points in history when people have gotten so fed up with the status quo that large numbers will throng to follow a populist or a demagogue. The GOP is allergic to populism, so they end up following demagogues.

On the Democrat side, that's why Bernie is doing so well: he's a populist, essentially.

 

[Kulindahr]

The presence of the neo Nazis, and the Communists sitting in our parliament evidences that the democratic process is alive in Greece. I despise both extremes.

What ever you, and me think of Trump is not relevant to the need of a democratic society to let extremists such as Trump speak their mind....repulsive as his views are to me.

The difference is that Trump isn't a fringe freak in an insignificant party.

 

[nycguydowntown]

Trump has billionaire disease. People worship the rich in this country and after a while they really think they are special and the rules don't apply to them---and they usually don't. I find it a little surprising at how crazy he is---he could be jeopardizing his empire and stigmatizing it forever. Actually thought it might have started by now.

 

[jbrown329]

Trump has billionaire disease. People worship the rich in this country and after a while they really think they are special and the rules don't apply to them---and they usually don't. I find it a little surprising at how crazy he is---he could be jeopardizing his empire and stigmatizing it forever. Actually thought it might have started by now.

The Billionaire Agenda
This episode reveals the underground world of America's wealthiest citizens and the depths at which their power and influence take root. Do billionaires think they know better than the majority? Are the American masses just objects to control? Forbes Editor Luisa Kroll talks about the growing wealth of the super-rich and the exclusive billionaire communities that are forming around them. Former United States Secretary of Labor Robert Reich divulges how billionaires' "dark money" influences American politics in ways that are off-limits to public scrutiny. And Author Mark Dice discusses the Bilderberg Group, the world's most secretive society of billionaires and the extreme measures they take to ensure that what happens behind closed doors stays behind closed doors.

^^ After watching, I so wanted to puke. Wonder if France still has a guillotine that they'd lend us.

 

[peeonme]

There's no such thing. There's free speech tempered by laws and by widely enforced social convention.

Go put up some swaztikas at work and see the reaction.

In the work place an employer can tell a person to be quiet and get to work, an employer owns the company and can forbid any political signs or talk.

This is far different than a government curtailing free speech. A person yelling fire in a crowded theater is illegal, a person flying a Stars and Bars or Swastika flag in or on their own property is not.

In the USA a person can support a political party of their choice, even an unpopular one.

 

[xbuzzerx]

In the work place an employer can tell a person to be quiet and get to work, an employer owns the company and can forbid any political signs or talk.

This is far different than a government curtailing free speech. A person yelling fire in a crowded theater is illegal, a person flying a Stars and Bars or Swastika flag in or on their own property is not.

In the USA a person can support a political party of their choice, even an unpopular one.

Put it in your yard. Put it on your car.

And the government does curtail free speech. First world nations only differ in degrees of interpretation, but frequently the degree of interpretation is substantial. You can't yell fire in a theater. You can't use a public venue to instruct people to murder someone and give them all the directions and details they need to do it. You can't slander someone. You can't incite a riot.

Hate groups like the Westboro Baptists are not even allowed to enter Canada, and likely their antics would fall under hate speech laws in half or more of Europe as well.

 

[kallipolis]

And if 10-15% of Greece's population embraced what Golden Dawn was selling? How would you feel then?

tRump has the support of lowlife and low info people nation wide. Both citizens and local/state elected officials.

Golden Dawn regularly polls 7 to 8 pct, likewise the Communists, leading me to believe that they are an evil that a democratic society can live with.

 

[kallipolis]

The difference is that Trump isn't a fringe freak in an insignificant party.

Trump's numbers are dropping, a reflection of his over exposure.

 

[kallipolis]

There's no such thing. There's free speech tempered by laws and by widely enforced social convention.

Go put up some swaztikas at work and see the reaction.

Here there lies another problem...who gets to decide what is acceptable speech...apart from libel, and slander laws.

There's always a risk that the greater good can be compromised when so called do gooders believe that their understandings should be imposed on the rest of society.....The Nazis, Fascists, Communists, and Anarchists think along these lines.

Better that the obnoxious person should be granted freedom to speak their thoughts, than to assume that we know better, by banning them from speaking in public....for their next step is to speak out of sight, an altogether much more dangerous step in the wrong direction.

 

[kallipolis]

I can agree that we should let ourselves listen to differing view points of others, it definitely can lead ourselves to learning something or opening ourselves to new ideas. I don't think Donald Trump is a good example of that, I don't really find any extremists to be good for that to be honest.

You can do what I do...don't listen to people whose ideas offend you....it's that simple....

 

[kallipolis]

I don't know Greek laws very well. But I suspect the gap is not because we don't understand the democratic process. I am guessing we can attribute it to norms that seem relatively universal to much of Europe that aren't givens in the United States. Such as restrictions on overt hate speech, bans on overt hate groups. Simply part of the landscape in the U.S. are organizations not even allowed entry to other countries like Canada, such as the Westboro Baptist Church.

You have to go pretty far (virtually into personally participating in planning) in the U.S. to hold any legal culpability at all for encouraging your supporters or crazies to act out against your opposition... whether it's Trump encouraging a crowd to mob a dissenter or Sarah Palin making a hit list on her website with guns and bullseyes.

It is a fact of life that many of us work with people whom we do not like, for whatever reason...I, so do. I have learnt to be patient with the unfairness of life.

Aristotle was a genius who spoke with clarity on issues that today enable the enlightened thinker to appreciate that wisdom, and the flawed human being can walk hand, in hand. Aristotle supported ownership of human beings. Today we call this...slavery... Over the centuries institutions have changed, and today there is a recognition that ownership of human beings is repugnant for most of us who value our freedom to choose. That freedom of choice includes permitting those with repugnant opinions to voice their views in the public arena.

Metaphorically speaking I am sure that Trump will hang himself....given enough rope....that rope is his current campaign.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Better that the obnoxious person should be granted freedom to speak their thoughts, than to assume that we know better, by banning them from speaking in public....for their next step is to speak out of sight, an altogether much more dangerous step in the wrong direction.

Your responses consistently reflect merely "hearing something you don't like."

We're not talking about obnoxious people with annoying opinions. We're talking about dangerous people who propose being in charge of the world's most powerful military.

 

[kallipolis]

Your responses consistently reflect merely "hearing something you don't like."

We're not talking about obnoxious people with annoying opinions. We're talking about dangerous people who propose being in charge of the world's most powerful military.

That's one of the risks that life presents to those of us who live in democratic countries....the fundamental right for all to express their opinions, no matter how obnoxious they may appear without fear of being silenced by those who presume to know better.....

I've always enjoyed viewing this movie..7 days in May.. . for it represents values that remind me how easy it is for potential dictators to impose their will, behind the mask of the reasonable man "who knows better" than the flamboyant extremist mouthing off aka Trump to impress the lowest common denominator....those so called reasonable men are the ones who win power, for they appear to represent decency, and respect...values appreciated by the reasonable voter seeking progress without having to rely on the moronic big mouth represented by Nelson Trump.

 

[kallipolis]

Here's me discussing Nelson Mandela on another site, mixing him with Donald Trump...I need another coffee.