Got hit on, what now?

[Lube]

Way too analytical. Trying way too hard to fit in with people who are not like you.

Accept yourself for who you are. It's OK to have the likes (men) and dislikes (sports) that you have. Find men with similar traits. Don't try to fit in because you're supposed to like sports, or whatever.

The best thing that ever happened to me was finding the bear community. I totally fit in. I feel accepted. I can talk about gay things and liking facial hair, and I don't feel out of place at all.

For the first time in my 44 years.

Find whatever community you feel most comfortable in. Stop trying to be someone you're not. And you can enjoy life more and analyze it a lot less.

 

[Lube]

That being said, if you are truly interested in cricket or whatever, asking people about their favorite things is a great way to get them talking to you. Unless they're total windbags--but you'll find that out soon enough.

 

[hanshansen]

That being said, if you are truly interested in cricket or whatever, asking people about their favorite things is a great way to get them talking to you.

That's what I was gonna say ...

Am I truly interested in cricket? I'd like to find out. At the moment I can't put what I see in context and it only makes sense to me at a superficial level. That's boring and frustrating. I'm curious to understand more. I'd like to be able to talk to people about it.

I was never interested in art until I went to London two years ago and spent seven hours in the National Gallery and started to see connections between paintings that were hundreds of years apart.

I was never interested in wine until I got the chance (in my current apartment) to compare different wines every day, bought a book which tought me to break down the experience of drinking wine into its components (smell, taste, aftertaste, and so on) and started to develop a memory bank of different tastes and aromas that I could compare a given wine to.

I can't imagine my life now without an interest in those things.

I don't really like the idea of 'finding people like me'. That's boring. But what I agree with is that I need to find people who accept me and find me interesting and are willing to engage with me, even if their 'deep' interests aren't my 'deep' interests. If that's not the case, I don't like being around them.

Regarding the analysis. If you ask me who I am, I think the fact that I approach things in an analytical way is a core part of that. Based on my experience, I think I would find it easier to connect with someone who loves cricket but has an analytical approach to it than with someone who loves classical music (one of my 'deep' interests) but approaches it in a very intuitive, inarticulate way.

I don't know if that's such a bad thing. Somebody said to me recently, 'your biggest weakness is also your biggest strength'. It was by finding patterns and structure that I developed an interest in things like art and wine, and that's enriched my life. When I was about 20 I worked my way through a harmony textbook - not in a very rigourous way, just enough to develop a feel for the 'tension' between different pitches - and it made classical music so much more interesting.

What the analytical approach makes hard is enjoying experiences which are physical and direct - dancing, certain sports, sex. That's the flipside.

 

[hanshansen]

Anyway, he told me that he and his friends would have been happy to help me with the cricket and that he'll catch up with me again in a couple of weeks. So that's good.

I learned a big lesson in being around people who will let you be yourself from my experience with that guy I met on a dating site (see previous thread, 'How to move on' etc.). The bad thing about him wasn't that he criticised me or my approach to things - I liked that, I liked his honesty. But he would never really engage with me or my views on things. He wasn't really curious about any of my interests. If I said something he would say 'Oh, really' and start talking about something else. In the end I realised that he already had everything mapped out for himself, that I wasn't part of that and that I was basically a footnote in his life during a brief period of confusion. It was really demoralising.

That was a total mismatch. He was emotional, I was analytical. We didn't get each other's sense of humour.

That was also a situation where I tried hard to fit in with his approach to things to make him like me. He basically ended up giving me a style makeover.

But even that's not that bad. Everyone tells me that I look much, much better. And he had a kind of logical approach to personal style which worked for me - it was about relating clothes to each other and to your physical and personal characteristics, highlighting strengths and covering weaknesses. That's sort of interesting. Whereas fashion strikes me as pretty much arbitrary and bores me to death.

 

[Lube]

I don't really like the idea of 'finding people like me'. That's boring.... Based on my experience, I think I would find it easier to connect with someone who loves cricket but has an analytical approach to it than with someone who loves classical music (one of my 'deep' interests) but approaches it in a very intuitive, inarticulate way.

You contradicted yourself there. Someone who is analytical (and likes cricket in an analytical way) is someone who's like you. And I agree with you, that's boring.

Truthfully, I think finding someone who loves classical music--just as you do--but experiences it in a totally visceral (as opposed to intellectual) way, would be far more interesting to you, and you would learn far more about music appreciation.

 

[Lube]

That was a total mismatch. He was emotional, I was analytical. We didn't get each other's sense of humour.

Opposites often attract, but, yeah, there needs to be some core similarities otherwise there's nothing to agree on.

And congrats on the style makeover!

 

[hanshansen]

You contradicted yourself there. Someone who is analytical (and likes cricket in an analytical way) is someone who's like you. And I agree with you, that's boring.

Truthfully, I think finding someone who loves classical music--just as you do--but experiences it in a totally visceral (as opposed to intellectual) way, would be far more interesting to you, and you would learn far more about music appreciation.

Well, I potentially like cricket. I'm open to liking cricket.

Your point is interesting, though. You can have the same temperament/mental approach as someone, but different interests. You can also share an interest, but in very different ways.

That could be interesting so long as you can talk about it. Someone who has strong emotional responses to music but isn't willing or able to express them wouldn't be very interesting to talk to ('I just like it ...').

BTW I do respond to (some) music in a visceral way. To be very blunt, a lot of Wagner and Strauss and Mahler is a sex substitute.

I would always want to explain the visceral responses, though.

 

[hanshansen]

I read a book last night called Personality Plus (on the recommendation of the guy who cuts my hair). It's a self-help book which is essentially based on the age-old theory of humours/temperaments. There are four temperaments: the 'popular' sanguine, the 'perfect' melancholy, the 'powerful' choleric and the 'peaceful' phlegmatic. The model classifies people along three axes: phlegmatics and melancholics are introverts (watchers, thinkers) whereas sanguines and cholerics are extraverts (actors, leaders); cholerics and melancholics are goal-driven, whereas sanguines and phlegmatics are not; and sanguines and melancholics are emotional, 'artistic' types whereas phlegmatics and cholerics are less driven by their emotions. Different people have these characteristics in different proportions.

The book isn't scientific and it’s spiked with bible quotations. But I liked its basic approach: understand and accept your own and others' personalities and how they interact, but figure out ways to magnify the associated strengths and mitigate the weaknesses. And reading it was like looking into a mirror.

I'm basically a melancholic. I'm a perfectionist, both as regards myself and others: if I don't measure up in the eyes of people I like, it's a disaster. If they don't measure up, it's a disaster. I look for the meaning in everything. But I'm over- rather than underemotional: I take things very seriously, I feel things very strongly, and the analysis tends to make the emotions stronger (because I tend to see big implications). This is why I write these long posts on here: it just needs to get out and this is a way I can do that without boring my friends to death.

I didn't realise before that I find it so hard to control my emotions.

Case in point: two days ago the guy who is the subject of this thread sent out a facebook party invite. Innocuous party, summer BBQ, lots and lots of invites. I wasn't on the list. I saw this last night. My response was totally disproportionate, it felt like a kick in the guts. Last night was torture, I woke up every two hours with my mouth dry and my stomach tied in knots. I tried telling myself all the right, rational things (you may be reading too much into this, and even if you're not, your happiness does not depend on this guy liking you etc.) but it didn't help.

I try to soften it a bit with phlegmatic behaviour - (self)-irony etc. - and sometimes I'm an extravert who talks too much and thinks he can charm people with anecdotes and witty asides, but the melancholy stuff is what comes out in private, and sometimes in public when I’m under stress. I’m starting to understand that it might be too much for some people. It’s too intense, it’s too demanding, it’s too emotionally draining.

I guess I need to continue to work on ‘tempering’ the melancholy (the perfectionism in particular) but I also need to find friends/more than friends who can understand and stomach it at least to some degree. I’ve always been like this and I’m not counting on it going away. And, frankly, I don’t want it to go away. I seriously think it makes me a more loyal and genuine and conscientious person. As I’ve tried to indicate in an earlier post, I think it’s also heightened my appreciation of art and other things. I’m the kind of guy who will watch a Tarkovsky movie or listen to a Mahler symphony several times until he gets it, and then there’ll be a point in the movie or the music where everything comes together and there is this emotional rush which is just amazing. I’ll forget all the details of the plot afterwards (even though I worked so hard to make sense of it), but that moment is just unforgettable. That’s the payoff, and it’s massive.

I wrote most of this before going to another (fortnightly) session of the gay support group that I’ve been going to for about 9 months. I feel a lot better after that. After getting to know the guy I’ve been talking about I turned away in a major way from the gay social groups which I’d been sampling, but this group still has a lot going for it. It’s not full of nutcases and closet cases, but it’s an environment where you don’t have to look good and you don’t have to be afraid to be yourself. The leader and a couple of regular attendees have an intellectual bent and I fit into that. It’s also a genuinely varied and interesting group of people, not all of them are embedded in the ‘gay scene’. I’ve seen some of these people socially and enjoyed that. I met a guy there today who was just really nice and seemed to like me. He is at least a potential friend.

So I’m looking forward to a decent night’s sleep.

 

[Lube]

Glad you got this out of your system.

And, yes, by posting here you avoid boring your friends to death. Instead, you bore the entire gay Internet community to death. Just kidding ya. I love reading your over-analytical posts. Reminds me of my younger days.

 

[hanshansen]

after a long silence, i got a facebook email from him today asking how i was doing and how a wine night on friday had gone. i wrote a reply and there followed a short joking exchange.

i just followed that up (after coming back from a dinner) with an email asking whether he would like to catch up in person over a drink in the next week or two. (he is a terrible written communicator, it seems he can barely squeeze out the words and they are full of typos - this must be some kind of dyslexia, he's a smart guy, he has a postgrad degree, he's very articulate verbally.)

i think this was a good thing to do. i have no ulterior motives. i'm no longer interested in pursuing anything with him (i'm now interested in someone else). i think i can see him with fewer illusions, but i'm no longer as upset as i was a week or two ago, either. if he blows me off, i don't think it will bother me that much. i just think it's a good idea to show that one is open to staying in touch with people. i still think he is an interesting and intelligent person.

i guess what triggered this is the dinner i was at. it was with the ex-intern, who i came out to in the course of this thread. that was an interesting lesson in communication. things had been tense with her since that happened, because neither of us was really comfortable talking about any of this stuff. today she asked me if my new flatmate was hot. i took umbrage at the idea that i might be attracted to my (hetero) flatmate and became standoffish. the next hour or two were difficult. eventually it came out that she had been really offended that i took offense at her remark (which was well-meaning), i admitted (without going into details) that i was actually interested in someone, and she ended up telling me about certain work-related issues which had left her nerves exposed. she ended up telling me that she felt a whole lot better after talking to me.

i guess i like these conversations where one reaches a new understanding with someone and i like creating opportunities for that to happen . i know it doesn't happen that often .

 

[hanshansen]

So I sent him an email asking him if he wanted to catch up over a drink, he replied straight back that I should name some possible dates, I did so, I never heard back from him (this was 10 days ago). Frankly, I now have other things going on in my life, so I'm not too worried.

 

[EvilForce]

STOP THE INSANITY! Good grief I have a headache.

Han, firstly (and this goes to everyone else at JUB that does this) stop emailing and "myspacing", "facebooking", "texting", whatever, important things. YOU DO NOT, accomplish deep, meaningful communication via email or facebook. It's a one way medium. I think it's a chickenshit way to communicate to avoid having a real interaction.

Now, as a general comment Han, STOP! Just STOP! Please stop the mental jerk-whiplash you constantly put yourself thru mentally, it is not healthy. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss. Stop trying to quantify every experience you have mentally. You spend way too much time living inside your head. Real life does not go on inside your head. If I thought like you did, when I kissed someone, what their lips feel like, how I feel, is this what I want, is he a long term b/f, does he like me, what do his lips taste like, etc... I'd shoot myself!

Enjoy an experience simply for what it is. Don't obsess on what's next. Or worry about how you feel after the 1st date. Or 2nd date. Just ENJOY it.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm trying to help you, but I think you are doing some very emotionally and mentally draining and damaging things. You have to stop the mental torture you put yourself thru. It's torture for me to read, I can't imagine how torturous it must be for you to have this internal voices of diarrhea playing in your head 24/7.

We are all screwed up, damaged, balls of insecurity. Why anyone loves us in our screwed-upness, who knows. But they do. And we love them, and others too. Emotions and love aren't logical. Stop overthinking everything to the point where you ruin it and take the magic out of it.

 

[hanshansen]

STOP THE INSANITY! Good grief I have a headache.

Yikes. I no longer feel insane . My last post was just meant to wrap up the thread, I've moved on ... I'm sorry for passing on my (earlier) headaches .

Han, firstly (and this goes to everyone else at JUB that does this) stop emailing and "myspacing", "facebooking", "texting", whatever, important things. YOU DO NOT, accomplish deep, meaningful communication via email or facebook. It's a one way medium. I think it's a chickenshit way to communicate to avoid having a real interaction.

Well, to the extent that people are busy and hard to get hold of, it's actually quite useful.

I try to communicate in person with people. Yes, sometimes I do communicate significant things in writing, because I like to give both me and the recipient time to think and digest. But I try to follow up face to face.

What I don't do is talk to people over the phone. It's either email/text, or meet up. I only have a cell, I hate using it to talk.

Now, as a general comment Han, STOP! Just STOP! Please stop the mental jerk-whiplash you constantly put yourself thru mentally, it is not healthy. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss. Stop trying to quantify every experience you have mentally. You spend way too much time living inside your head. Real life does not go on inside your head. If I thought like you did, when I kissed someone, what their lips feel like, how I feel, is this what I want, is he a long term b/f, does he like me, what do his lips taste like, etc... I'd shoot myself!

Enjoy an experience simply for what it is. Don't obsess on what's next. Or worry about how you feel after the 1st date. Or 2nd date. Just ENJOY it.

I can't do that. I don't think I'll ever be able to. I think about the meaning and the long-term consequences of things. I do that for everything. I'm an economist, for heavens' sake.

BUT as time goes on I should be able to put some of the consequences in perspective better (e.g. if this doesn't work out it won't be the end of the world).

That should come with experience. Remember, this was the first time I had ever dealt with any of this.

Cheers!

 

[hanshansen]

In case anyone is still interested in this, I finally managed to catch up with him tonight ... it was actually a really enjoyable night, it was leaving drinks of a colleague of his, eventually the group thinned out, we were the last two remaining and went home around 12ish. Platonic, although I think he still thinks I'm attractive and is a little more touchy-feely than a hetero guy would be.

He is a very good guy to hang out with and he suggested follow-ups (dinner with mutual friends etc.), so did I. I'm just glad that something good has come out of this. That he's fun to be with, that he has at least some friends who are fun to be with, and that he's a decent and well-meaning guy. That casts everything that happened in a much more positive light.

 

[hanshansen]

I'm in a situation which may be as uncomplicated as I initially (yesterday) thought, or not.

Contact with the the guy who hit on me when this thread started has never broken off, he showed up at a party of mine the other week, I'm catching up with him and a mutual friend over drinks in 10 days' time, etc. Now yesterday he suggested that I join him and a few friends of his on an island vacation where we'd take part in a round-the-island race (I like running).

He also suggested that for cost effectiveness we could share a twin room.

Is that a risky situation to get into, given the history? See, my position would be: that was in the past, we both decided it was better to cool things off. We're both smart and we still know that. But is it naive to think he thinks the same way?

I've got three options:

a) I decide not to go on the vacation. That would be stupid, I think it could be a lot of fun, I'd get to do something healthy somewhere warm.

b) I go on the vacation but indicate I want my own room. That would rule out anything happening, but would also send the signal: 'I'm imputing hidden agendas to you'.

c) I go on the vacation, agree to the twin room, and if he does try anything on (or we are drunk and both tempted, or whatever) I nip it in the bud then.

I'm inclined to go with (c).

Please don't shoot me down for overanalysing a situation, to my credit it took me a day to come up with this .

 

[nautiboyjeff]

Where is option d)?

d) Share the room and if you guys mess around, mess around, go with the flow.

You are way too uptight!

 

[hanshansen]

Where is option d)?

d) Share the room and if you guys mess around, mess around, go with the flow.

Yeah, great, and what do we do then when we get home? I have no plans to go down this road with this guy, at least not now.

To his credit, I think on the whole he has a slightly longer-term view, as well. So it should be fine.

 

[KaraBulut]

I'm going to bring out a handy saying:

Talk to him.

Not us.

Him.

It's important that you have analyzed the situation and figured out your feelings about the matter. Your next step is to talk to him about his feelings.

It may be that- since you've already seen each other naked - he's comfortable sharing a hotel room with you.

It's perfectly acceptable to say "The trip sounds like fun. I'm okay with sharing a room but just as friends". If he is a friend, he'll understand. If he has an ulterior motive, it will become clear when you talk.

 

[hanshansen]

It's perfectly acceptable to say "The trip sounds like fun. I'm okay with sharing a room but just as friends".

Yeah ... I've decided I won't. The thing is, we already agreed to interact on a friends basis, and if he wants to change that then he needs to put that to me in an up-front way and we take it from there. If I say anything like this, it's like I'm saying, 'I'm not trusting you to stick to the deal and be honest with me'.

Maybe that doesn't make any sense, but I know it's the right decision.

He's booked his flight and the twin room (i.e. 2 beds), I've booked my flight.

BTW if anything does happen, how I handle that will depend on how it happens.