Grandpa Knows His Foreign Relations

[Centexfarmer]

the bad guys r the russians

period

u can make the argument that the georgian govt did not handle this smartly

but there is no denying who the real aggressor was - who WANTED this to happen - who MANIPULATED the situation - and why

real simple shit

i think some things r black and white

and this is one of them

how we handle it is NOT black and white

but knowing who's who and what they do and r capable of - is critical

which is why experience matters

I'm sorry Chance but your response is ironic on so many levels.

Since you and I grew up with the "Russians" being the "bad guys," (thinking about the cowboy in black -vs- the hero in white), how long is that paradigm going to continue?

but there is no denying who the real aggressor was - who WANTED this to happen - who MANIPULATED the situation - and why

And yet the same argument could be made against us, the U.S. in regard to Iraq.

In regard to "foreign relations" WE don't have a leg to stand on in this matter.

McCain showing that he's all "tough and shit" doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the world stage at this point.

America, IMO, has lost it's moral imperative, and ethical footing under the policies of G.W. in regard to "policing other governments" and the "Russians" are calling us on his shit.

McCain's military experience dates back to when the war in Vietnam was being broadcast into our living rooms every night, when the threat of nuclear annihilation was an every day fear.

We grew up knowing what nuclear proliferation meant, and de'tant, when the world was divided between God Loving Americans, and Godless Communists.

The World Stage has changed my friend.

A political hiccup in Venezuela, can lead to global changes in oil production, which causes the Chinese to react, which influences markets around the world, any member of the EU economy can suffer a draw back, thus effecting economic and market reactions around the globe, market production and free trade is effected both here and abroad, some second rate dictator decides to flex his political, nuclear, or any other aggressive muscle and the ripples of those actions are felt every where else.

We're agree when you say:

how we handle it is NOT black and white

But I believe that you're logic is flawed when you claim immediately before that statement:

i think some things r black and white

and this is one of them

I can see WHY someone might want to believe that, but it's simply not the case here.

We need someone he views the world from a more contemporary perspective.

Not some old neocon who's idea of approaching everything comes from a "Cold War" perspective.

Especially in light of the new world "Global Economy."

It's ironic to me how "conservatives," and "neo-cons" talk about "free markets/enterprise/democracy" until it comes to "foreign relations."

Then they want to start talking all black and white/cold war, as if America should "police" the world.

Thanks partly to G.W. Bush, and his "foreign relations" policies, that time has now passed.

The time of chest-thumping, sabre rattling, and posturing on our part only proves how ill equipped we are at effecting any positive change on our behalf or others.

But if McCain gets you all starry eyed about the 1970's, and 1980's then he's your guy!

I prefer a candidate who's willing to deal with 21st Century problems from the perspective of today's realities.

 

[RandomAccess]

have heard it/seen it

he misspoke

doesn't bother me

u have a mic in front of ur face 24/7

unlike actors - there's no "cut - retake"

and i do think its prob true that he's forgotten more than BO knows

LOL

You seem willing to tolerate a hell of a lot more from him than from AAAAAANY Democrat! If Hillary or Barack do it you're eager to pounce. McCain does it, repeatedly, and "he misspoke". How do you justify the double standard?

 

[chance1]

I'm sorry Chance but your response is ironic on so many levels.

Since you and I grew up with the "Russians" being the "bad guys," (thinking about the cowboy in black -vs- the hero in white), how long is that paradigm going to continue?

sorry - but they r bad - and their current govt wants to go back to the old ways - when people had no rights - when they "owned" other countries - which r now free and trying desperately to stay that way

And yet the same argument could be made against us, the U.S. in regard to Iraq.

In regard to "foreign relations" WE don't have a leg to stand on in this matter.

McCain showing that he's all "tough and shit" doesn't amount to a hill of beans on the world stage at this point.

America, IMO, has lost it's moral imperative, and ethical footing under the policies of G.W. in regard to "policing other governments" and the "Russians" are calling us on his shit.

McCain's military experience dates back to when the war in Vietnam was being broadcast into our living rooms every night, when the threat of nuclear annihilation was an every day fear.

We grew up knowing what nuclear proliferation meant, and de'tant, when the world was divided between God Loving Americans, and Godless Communists.

The World Stage has changed my friend.

A political hiccup in Venezuela, can lead to global changes in oil production, which causes the Chinese to react, which influences markets around the world, any member of the EU economy can suffer a draw back, thus effecting economic and market reactions around the globe, market production and free trade is effected both here and abroad, some second rate dictator decides to flex his political, nuclear, or any other aggressive muscle and the ripples of those actions are felt every where else.

our going into iraq was very diff - ur a = b is very simple minded and erroneous - iraq was given every opp to defend itself by allowing inspections - not the same as plotting to take back georgia

mccain isnt' being tough - he's being right - sometimes u gotta be tough - i trust his experience to know the diff - poker is a tough game

and i love how mccain handled it - and how BO managed it blows - and shows me first hand why he's unequipped

We're agree when you say:



But I believe that you're logic is flawed when you claim immediately before that statement:

sorry but - not flawed at all

what is b&w is that russia WAS the aggressor - that Russia is to blame - that Russia planned this - for a long time - this is an agenda item

what is not b&w is how we "handle" it - a combo of carrot and stick - but the stick must be applied - the russians cannot be lead to believe that they can do this w/o recourse - that is the not b&w part - diff ways to handle - need an experienced hand to know this - not a newbie - not wet behind the ears - not a junior senator - no fucking way - this is not a term paper on some historical conflict - this is the real deal

u take all the chances (no pun intended) u want - i will pass - i want a steady experienced hand - for "now" times

I can see WHY someone might want to believe that, but it's simply not the case here.

We need someone he views the world from a more contemporary perspective.

Not some old neocon who's idea of approaching everything comes from a "Cold War" perspective.

Especially in light of the new world "Global Economy."

It's ironic to me how "conservatives," and "neo-cons" talk about "free markets/enterprise/democracy" until it comes to "foreign relations."

Then they want to start talking all black and white/cold war, as if America should "police" the world.

Thanks partly to G.W. Bush, and his "foreign relations" policies, that time has now passed.

The time of chest-thumping, sabre rattling, and posturing on our part only proves how ill equipped we are at effecting any positive change on our behalf or others.

But if McCain gets you all starry eyed about the 1970's, and 1980's then he's your guy!

I prefer a candidate who's willing to deal with 21st Century problems from the perspective of today's realities.

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

 

[chance1]

You seem willing to tolerate a hell of a lot more from him than from AAAAAANY Democrat! If Hillary or Barack do it you're eager to pounce. McCain does it, repeatedly, and "he misspoke". How do you justify the double standard?

BO has made several gaffes

said there were 57 states

said 10,000 people died in a kansas tornado - 12 died

said iran does not pose a serious threat to us

and many more

hillary made gaffes

misspoke

people do it

its' not that big a deal

and i haven't brought it up

given the 24/7 coverage

its their policies/history/actions that matter

 

[Raincoat Massacre]

Yeah he knows his 'foreign relations' because the Georgian government paid his forgein policy advisor

I smell a conflict of interest...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-20-mccainadviser_n.htm

 

[RandomAccess]

BO has made several gaffes

said there were 57 states

THAT was more in-line with what you could call "misspoke." He meant to say 47 and 57 just slipped out. Obvious as can be that he wasn't being dishonest, it was OBVIOUSLY just a slip.

said 10,000 people died in a kansas tornado - 12 died

Again, not an attempt at obfuscation. Just a literal slip.

said iran does not pose a serious threat to us

Now-now. Be fair Chance. Put that in its proper context: he said that Iran isn't a serious threat in the way that the USSR was a threat, or Cuba was a threat, or. . . you get the idea. And he was making the point that those threats were dealt-with using diplomacy, not by blindly rushing headlong into war or rattling sabers. Taking shit out of context is the Republican way though, so I'm not surprised.

and many more

hillary made gaffes

misspoke

people do it

its' not that big a deal

and i haven't brought it up

given the 24/7 coverage

its their policies/history/actions that matter

Still seems to me you make a HUGE deal out of it when Obama or Clinton "misspeak." And keep in mind, a lot of the things you're letting McCain off the hook for are things that could start a war if he were President!

see the BLUE STUFF

r your eyes failing u too?

As I pointed-out in another thread, if you'd use the quote feature properly you'd be a hell of a lot easier to understand, and you'd risk having to stoop to insults like this a lot less often!

And someone around here was right; to the uninitiated your style could easily be mis-perceived as adolescent. Just between us ol' friends, you might try to improve a bit. <snicker>

 

[opinterph]

see the BLUE STUFF

Placing your own remarks inside quote tags attributed to another poster is highly inappropriate, regardless of which color you use to decorate the deviation.

 

[RandomAccess]

Am I on "ignore" again?

 

[Centexfarmer]

In the words of California Governor The Terminator, "I'll be back!"



I've got to get up in a few hours, but I will provide a response to the Blue Stuff, when I get home tomorrow afternoon.

Until then, I'd like to remind everyone as a Mod that the "gang-banging" is for another forum here, and not CE&P.

 

[smelter]

In the words of California Governor The Terminator, "I'll be back!"



I've got to get up in a few hours, but I will provide a response to the Blue Stuff, when I get home tomorrow afternoon.

Until then, I'd like to remind everyone as a Mod that the "gang-banging" is for another forum here, and not CE&P.

Thats OK, I need a hiatus anyway. I'd consider it a badge of honor to be banned for speaking the truth! If its good enough for General Alfie, its certainly good enough for little ole me!

 

[Centexfarmer]

Thats OK, I need a hiatus anyway. I'd consider it a badge of honor to be banned for speaking the truth! If its good enough for General Alfie, its certainly good enough for little ole me!

I can't sleep without at least this ONE fact being known, General Alfie's account is still active here.

He was NEVER permanently banned from JUB.

*Personally, I sometimes wish that he'd start posting here again just to give some of the members who've joined in his absence a taste of what pushing a verb up against a noun really looks like!*

 

[chance1]

Placing your own remarks inside quote tags attributed to another poster is highly inappropriate, regardless of which color you use to decorate the deviation.

inappropriate? that's a curious word to use IMO

yeah

i think calling someone a prick is inappropriate

but what the fuck do i know ?

only on JUB

i guess

 

[TierraSimms]

Hate is wishing someone ill will - loathing them

i think BO is a really good .................. junior senator

who has a fine future in politics and great potential

not what we need NOW

that is hardly hate

but u can't see honest concern/debate about him as anything but hate

many can't

I'm more concerned about an old man that doesn't realize that the Russia isn't the Soviet Union anymore or that Czechoslavakia hasn't existed since 1993. Yeah, this person's name is John McCain. So if we are going to have a concern/debate about anything let's have it about "Grandpa" and his lack of up-to-date knowledge on foregin relations.... I think Obama has better judgement than somebody that believe Iraq is stable and practically wish there is another war in this world between Russia and Georgia like the likes of GWB and John McCain.

All John McCain is proving to me he is EXACTLY NOT the candidate for handling this very issues.

 

[Raincoat Massacre]

Am I on "ignore" again?

I can read you Random

 

[Spensed]

^ I don't know why. Chance's writing style seems wholly appropriate to what he has to say. LOL.

 

[AsianDream]

Let me just say that if McCain starts another Cold War, I can guarantee there will be more then a few North Americans who will be looking to remove the pain in the ass that's fucking the world up worse then it is, like we should have done with Bush.

And Chance, who are the badguys? The Russians, who were responding to a Georgian attack on South Otassia, or the Georgians, with an unfortunatly excessive counter-attack, or the Georgians, who attacked a(I believe) ex-portion of their country, possibly to pressure them to rejoin the country. Don't pull this Bushite bullshit with us. It insults our intelligence and yours. There ARE no good guys or bad guys with this, just a bunch of power hungry politicians who can't dig their heads far enough outside of the collective asshole to realize what the fuck they're doing will probably fuck things up for everyone, not just them.

As you say - There seem to be no good guys or bad guys in this situation - just power hungry politicians playing to their local crowd.

One good guide to military planning is that intentions can change instantly while capabilities can't - in this context it seems very dumb for the Georgians to do something they should have known the Russians would have to respond to - though one theme of this whole issue is that the Russians didn't expect it and are making it up as they go along.

I've had worries that Obama would be too inexperienced to make a good president (I was always in favour of Clinton) - but I think that McCain seems to have responded very badly to this issue - while I thought Obama's response was well thought out

This is clearly one where the Georgian government have shot themselves in the foot - only time (and hopefully the good sense of the Russians) will tell if this turns out to be a disaster for them.

 

[chance1]

Looks like chance's posting style is pulling lots of complaints.

^ I don't know why. Chance's writing style seems wholly appropriate to what he has to say. LOL.

hmmm

what do make of these 2 ?

i guess i would say IC - better to have ANY style than NONE - the latter being .......... u figure it out


as for spensed - ur style is to insert LOL randomly and not well - in addition to a one note grandpa is against all things gay and will stack the SCOTUS as such - so again, i will kinda stick with what i got

supposedly gays r all about embracing "differences" yet u 2 ..............

hmmmmmmmmmm indeed

have a wonderful day boys

imagining that u can't ........... if ur spending so much time complaining about a writing style that u clearly understand but just don't like

 

[AsianDream]

what do U make of these 2 ?

hmmmmmmmmmm indeed

imagining that u can't ...........

Hmmmm - Yoda – similar to how speaks he Chance1 is

Hard to follow – sometimes is

But with him 4ce maybe is –

need 2 deb8 4 a while with R2D2 2 C if NE sense in what he says

WD it B rude 2 call some1 a pretentious poser?

 

[Jannus]

^ Very true. But the BEST reason to vote for McCain is that some people may not like him quite as much as they do Obama.

 

[naked gent]

r u kidding me?

using iran as a bargaining chip for attacking georgia?

that is no deal

that's the deal u make with the devil

NFW

no way u make that deal

u make that deal and u have nothing - and u r proven to have no principles

u have to think long term

Oh yeah I remember your dedication to principle in the thread concerning our methods of obtaining information from those being held down at gitmo.

Apparently your principles are like your wallet you take it out when it suits you and leave it untouched when it don't.

How very inspiring.