Grandpa Knows His Foreign Relations

[smelter]

John McCain - A leader who will lead. Because that's what leaders do. And he's for family values because family values are out there and people are doin' 'em. He's a man. A person. There he is! He has hair and what else can you say? He's old. Older than dirt. But that's good because he remembers WW1. OK, he's old enough to remember half of human history but he doesn't remember yesterday. But that's OK because he was in Vietnam and they were mean to him. But he was good and evil was dumb.

He's a maverick. No. Not a car. OK. His head looks like a car but he's good! He's a good man, ya see! Because he's a maverick. Yeah. That's why! Vote for him......so he can be a maverick.

LOL Random dude, I don't know if you intended it to be, but this could be the best summary of Chance's reasons for backing John McCain that I've seen so far.

 

[White Eagle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Lowry

Rich Lowry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Richard A. Lowry (born 22 August 1968) is editor of National Review.

Lowry was born in Arlington, Virginia. He regularly appears on the Fox News Channel. He has guest-hosted on Hannity and Colmes and Fox & Friends, and is a guest panelist on Fox News Watch.

Lowry graduated from the University of Virginia in 1990. He joined William F. Buckley's National Review in 1992 and has been the magazine's editor since 1997.

His book, Legacy: Paying the Price for the Clinton Years (ISBN 0-89526-129-4) is a critical look at former president Bill Clinton. He also has a syndicated column with King Features.

That's what Wikipedia knows about Rich Lowry. He is a Fox shill, all for the repugs. He knows nothing about nothing. Georgia started that war by Invading South Ossetia. McPain wants Russia out of Georgia because Georgia pays McIdiots Lobbyist. McBush wants Russia out of Georgia because of the oil there also.
Mcrepug is an idiot.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Alright Chance here's a tool that you can use to avoid posting in a different color text and font when quoting someone:

[/quote] <~ That typed at the end of someone's text that you want to quote, and

typed at the beginning of the text that you want to quote will put their words into a separate text box so that you don't have to go through the trouble of trying to differientiate between your words and the person that you're quoting.

Which is what I did to be able to answer you here.

And besides you've been posting here long enough to have learned some of the tricks of the vBulletin system that runs JUB here.

Try it you'll like it...

Now back to your thread:

sorry - but they r bad - and their current govt wants to go back to the old ways - when people had no rights - when they "owned" other countries - which r now free and trying desperately to stay that way

There is some truth in what you say here, but the story is more is more involved than that.

As I understand the situation on the ground, after the old Soviet Union collapsed Georgia fought and won it's own independence.

Russia seems to claim that Georgia is now trying to expand their territory, and that's what this "war" is all about.

our going into iraq was very diff - ur a = b is very simple minded and erroneous - iraq was given every opp to defend itself by allowing inspections - not the same as plotting to take back georgia

Yes, and we've since learned that part of Saddam Hussein's posturing of not allowing "weapons inspectors" was an attempt to not appear weak to Iran. Not as an afront to the U.S.

If he had allowed weapon inspectors, and then they wen't back to the U.N. and reported that he was essentially defenseless, then it could have been Iran that invaded Iraq for the opposite reasons that we ended up invading.

We invaded Iran because Bush saw Hussein as a threat, Iran didn't invade Iraq for the same reasons.

mccain isnt' being tough - he's being right - sometimes u gotta be tough - i trust his experience to know the diff - poker is a tough game

Actually I think that McCain is posturing for to appeal to his base, but that's just me.

and i love how mccain handled it - and how BO managed it blows - and shows me first hand why he's unequipped

Why? Because BO didn't sound all "cold-war" on the issue?

sorry but - not flawed at all

what is b&w is that russia WAS the aggressor - that Russia is to blame - that Russia planned this - for a long time - this is an agenda item

Which goes back to my original argument; just because Russia WAS the agressor, and appears to remain so today, still doesn't give us much of a leg to stand on.

We're were we in the early 90's when this drama was first beginning?

Where are we now?

Russia is one of our allies fighting terrorists along side American troops in Afghanistan, if memory serves me correctly.

Which is why you and I are still in agreement here:

what is not b&w is how we "handle" it - a combo of carrot and stick - but the stick must be applied - the russians cannot be lead to believe that they can do this w/o recourse - that is the not b&w part - diff ways to handle - need an experienced hand to know this -.....

Which is we're my agreement with you ends.

We need someone who recognizes that how un-black & white this issue is. Not some guy who thinks that he's still fighting Communism.

not a newbie - not wet behind the ears - not a junior senator - no fucking way - this is not a term paper on some historical conflict - this is the real deal

u take all the chances (no pun intended) u want - i will pass - i want a steady experienced hand - for "now" times

I would prefer someone with a little more experience, and less baggage if the truth is to be told.

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Right back atcha Stud!

 

[MrWright]

BO has made several gaffes

said there were 57 states

said 10,000 people died in a kansas tornado - 12 died

said iran does not pose a serious threat to us

and many more

hillary made gaffes

misspoke

people do it

its' not that big a deal

and i haven't brought it up

given the 24/7 coverage

its their policies/history/actions that matter

Srry but I'll have to agree with randomaccess: you've got it bad for McCain...

I mean he seems to be a nice guy and everything but really...

He's not all that attractive?

I feel like right now we need someone strong on economics and willing to move the US closer towards equality. Even if McCain WAS a maverick, he won't be once he's chosen for POTUS by a lot of evangelical voters: that's too big a bloc to ignore. While I think he has admirably taken stances in the Senate that were completely unpopular, I also think he and I have about zero policy alignment. Yeah, I'm worried about Obama's lack of experience - especially foreign policy - in light of Russia rising up but that's not going to make me vote for a man and a party who's against gay rights, gun control, environmental protection, gender equality, racial equality, social security, and abortion.

Too much no for a small bit of yes.

 

[chance1]

Hmmmm - Yoda – similar to how speaks he Chance1 is

Hard to follow – sometimes is

But with him 4ce maybe is –

need 2 deb8 4 a while with R2D2 2 C if NE sense in what he says

WD it B rude 2 call some1 a pretentious poser?

i think uve taken gibberish to a new level

congrats

and nice bush

 

[chance1]

Oh yeah I remember your dedication to principle in the thread concerning our methods of obtaining information from those being held down at gitmo.

Apparently your principles are like your wallet you take it out when it suits you and leave it untouched when it don't.

How very inspiring.

got no prob with gitmo - no secret - saving american lives is of paramount importance - we're at war oh naked one - and im less concerned about the rights of terrorists - call me crazy - this is an old thread revisited

ud be very popular with them - but they'd kill u just the same

as for ur "principles are like ur wallet ........."

ur making no sense

but im used to it

 

[chance1]

Srry but I'll have to agree with randomaccess: you've got it bad for McCain...

I mean he seems to be a nice guy and everything but really...

He's not all that attractive?

I feel like right now we need someone strong on economics and willing to move the US closer towards equality. Even if McCain WAS a maverick, he won't be once he's chosen for POTUS by a lot of evangelical voters: that's too big a bloc to ignore. While I think he has admirably taken stances in the Senate that were completely unpopular, I also think he and I have about zero policy alignment. Yeah, I'm worried about Obama's lack of experience - especially foreign policy - in light of Russia rising up but that's not going to make me vote for a man and a party who's against gay rights, gun control, environmental protection, gender equality, racial equality, social security, and abortion.

Too much no for a small bit of yes.

earth shattering news mr wright i have it "bad" for JMac

im thinking el presidente is an especially imp position right now - what with oil, iraq, no korea, the economy, russia now plus

really big gig

i prefer the mccain of 2000 but it doesn't work that way

it's BO vs JM - and it's no contest

one guy is all flash and little substance - at least we haven't seen it - for all i know he's got it - then he should show it

his commentary re: russia/georgia did not surprise me - weak shit

as for JMac - been there - done it - he will be a good caretaker for 4 years - and will keep us safe and not indiscriminately raise taxes and create a class warfare - which is not what we need

i could go on and on but ............ i think im already over the posts in a row limit

tough to keep track of all the hammers im getting

this not being one of them

 

[Spensed]

...as for JMac - been there - done it - he will be a good caretaker for 4 years - and will keep us safe and not indiscriminately raise taxes and create a class warfare - which is not what we need....

Naive claptrap.

We're more likely to end up in another war with McCain than with Obama.

Scrapping tax cuts for the very wealthy isn't rasing taxes indicriminately. It's was McCain himself wanted to do. Remember?

As for class warfare, you think all the Obama and Hillary supporters are going to take more George W. Bush just because he's now repackaged as McCain.

Try waking up and smelling the coffee, Pollyanna. LOL.

 

[Spensed]

...as for spensed - ur style is to insert LOL randomly and not well - in addition to a one note grandpa is against all things gay and will stack the SCOTUS as such - so again, i will kinda stick with what i got

supposedly gays r all about embracing "differences" yet u 2 ..............

hmmmmmmmmmm indeed

have a wonderful day boys

imagining that u can't ........... if ur spending so much time complaining about a writing style that u clearly understand but just don't like

All I said was that how you say it matches what you say.

I never suggested, for example, that many of your posts are jittery and inarticulate.

That seems to be a conclusion you've drawn for yourself. LOL.

P.S. Grandpa is against all things gay and will stack the SCOTUS as such.

 

[Kulindahr]

Let me just say that if McCain starts another Cold War, I can guarantee there will be more then a few North Americans who will be looking to remove the pain in the ass that's fucking the world up worse then it is, like we should have done with Bush.

And Chance, who are the badguys? The Russians, who were responding to a Georgian attack on South Otassia, or the Georgians, with an unfortunatly excessive counter-attack, or the Georgians, who attacked a(I believe) ex-portion of their country, possibly to pressure them to rejoin the country. Don't pull this Bushite bullshit with us. It insults our intelligence and yours. There ARE no good guys or bad guys with this, just a bunch of power hungry politicians who can't dig their heads far enough outside of the collective asshole to realize what the fuck they're doing will probably fuck things up for everyone, not just them.

our going into iraq was very diff - ur a = b is very simple minded and erroneous - iraq was given every opp to defend itself by allowing inspections - not the same as plotting to take back georgia

Bullshit.
Saddam Hussein made offers that were ignored. He told Bush that he could send in as many inspection teams as he wanted, and Bush ignored it. He offered to meet for negotiations, and Bush ignored it.
All you have to do is compare Bush to Ronald Reagan to realize that either Bush wanted this military adventure, or he's a fool -- or both. Reagan would have taken Saddam up on those offers -- sent in a hundred inspection teams, pulled unannounced inspections, grabbed at negotiations, but Bush just rolled right on into a military action the moment he got a "go" from Congress.

I'll bet McCain wouldn't tell it that way -- but that's the way it was, and McCain's version would just show that he lives in a world where starting a war is no big deal... after all, he lived through it, so it must be good for people....

 

[Kulindahr]

Am I on "ignore" again?

I think I am, too. Let's see....

inappropriate? that's a curious word to use IMO

yeah

i think calling someone a prick is inappropriate

but what the fuck do i know ?

only on JUB

i guess

Not "only on JUB", Chance: on any forum, it's inappropriate to put your words inside a quote of someone else. At best, it's merely confusing; at worst, it can be see as an attempt to confuse or change the meaning of what you're quoting.

Doing it right is simple enough; it can take a bit of patience, though.

 

[Shafted]

chance being a successful president means having priorities and making tough choices. The russians have called our hand here demanding we choose between our support for georgia or our desire for russian help with sanctions against Iran.

If you're really concerned about Iran then it appears you'll need the bad guys help or the military option will will be the only choice left to you.

Fine JMac won't be walked over and the price of that strength may be a nuclear Iran.

That sound like a good deal to you?

Its a complicated question....think you can answer it?

I notice lowry doesn't even mention Iran in his piece. Life is so simple in his narrow world.

This is what happens when you allow lobbyists to tie you too close to the business of foreign spats. Bush and McCain encouraged Georgia to provoke Russian, and they had neither the means or support to back up their gambit.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether Bush and McCain indirectly sparked a war for political points.

 

[Shafted]

the bad guys r the russians

period

Really? Russia didn't instigate a war. Georgia did when they marched in to S. Ossetia and killed nearly 2000 of their civilians.

Is that the kind of democracy Bush and McCain are cheerleading?

but there is no denying who the real aggressor was - who WANTED this to happen - who MANIPULATED the situation - and why

They were looking for an opportunity, and the greedy Georgian president gave it to them. Georgia doesn't want Russia to force them into assimilation, but Georgia doesn't have a problem forcing integration on S. Ossetia.

It's not black and white.

 

[Shafted]

Booya! The media better not let this slide!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mccain_lobbyist

 

[Kulindahr]

Booya! The media better not let this slide!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mccain_lobbyist

How tangled.
McCain shows his position on ethical principles: those are for everyone else.

 

[chance1]

This is what happens when you allow lobbyists to tie you too close to the business of foreign spats. Bush and McCain encouraged Georgia to provoke Russian, and they had neither the means or support to back up their gambit.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether Bush and McCain indirectly sparked a war for political points.

scary post

so John McCain is behind the Russians planning for months to stage this with Georgia?

can't be Bush - he was shocked by the whole thing - playing nicey nice in Bejing - getting interviewed by Bob Costas and patting US athletes on the back

Good thing McCain was on it - just like with the surge he was the one to "see the light"

he can do that cuz he has seen things - knows people - knows the politics

saw the NY Times today which had 3 articles which pointed to Russia's obvious pre and current aggression - if there was an even a hint of Russia's not being the cause of this ............ the NYT would find it

 

[Spensed]

^ Even you can't think McCain gets it right all the time.

McCain's chief foreign policy advisor was on Georgia's payroll until very recently.

That resulted in McCain going out of his way to support Georgia's interests. Surprise, surprise.

Georgia's leader underestimated Russia's response to his own military action in part because he thought McCain's and U.S. support meant something.

Now, without even the smallest amount of moral, diplomatic or communications negotiating leverage, all McCain can do is open and close his mouth like an old carp.

If this is McCain knowing his foreign relations, Lord save us one an' all. LOL.

 

[chance1]

^ Even you can't think McCain gets it right all the time.

McCain's chief foreign policy advisor was on Georgia's payroll until very recently.

That resulted in McCain going out of his way to support Georgia's interests. Surprise, surprise.

Georgia's leader underestimated Russia's response to his own military action in part because he thought McCain's and U.S. support meant something.

Now, without even the smallest amount of moral, diplomatic or communications negotiating leverage, all McCain can do is open and close his mouth like an old carp.

If this is McCain knowing his foreign relations, Lord save us one an' all. LOL.

if u wanna try to play this as McCain was not killer/winner of the week/destroyed BO on this topic

be my guest

it shows ur complete lack of honesty

while BO was surfboarding and catching up with grams - JMac was telling the world the real deal

the Georgians made a mistake for sure - and underestimated the Russians - that won't happen again with them or other ex Soviet owned lands

I hear that Poland is gonna sign up for the missile def system

hmmm

and the Russians are non too happy

what did they think this would do?

such a game of chess

and BO doesn't know the game

JMac does

BO was "in the dark" here

pick the movie and the character and actor who gave this line - academy award winner

go for it

 

[MrWright]

earth shattering news mr wright i have it "bad" for JMac

im thinking el presidente is an especially imp position right now - what with oil, iraq, no korea, the economy, russia now plus

really big gig

i prefer the mccain of 2000 but it doesn't work that way

it's BO vs JM - and it's no contest

one guy is all flash and little substance - at least we haven't seen it - for all i know he's got it - then he should show it

his commentary re: russia/georgia did not surprise me - weak shit

as for JMac - been there - done it - he will be a good caretaker for 4 years - and will keep us safe and not indiscriminately raise taxes and create a class warfare - which is not what we need

i could go on and on but ............ i think im already over the posts in a row limit

tough to keep track of all the hammers im getting

this not being one of them

I couldn't be hammering you, I'll leave that for McCain

 

[Shafted]

scary post

so John McCain is behind the Russians planning for months to stage this with Georgia?

You don't see the suspicious links?
McCain's lobbyist ties to Georgia; his trips to the region; American training and weapons; "we are now all Georgians (no, I don't think so); Rice saying we always fight for our allies. You can't say for a fact that this administration didn't know what was gonna happen.
The media immediately pounced on Russia for invading Georgia, but neglected to mention that Georgian forces (with American weapons and training) killed nearly 2000 S. Ossetians. This is what led to Russia's fierce response.

So, we're here cheering for Georgian independence, yet are ignorant of the fact that McCain is backing a president who is considered a tyrant by the Ossetians. He's trying to force their break-away community into rejoining Georgia.
Is that the kind of democracy we should be backing? Is that what democracy has become? We have no right to reprimand Russia for invading Georgia in light of what we did in Iraq, and we certainly kill the spirit of our ideals when we back a president trying to force his will on others.

On top of that, McCain stating in his address that, in the 21st century, nations should not be invading other sovereign countries has convinced me that McCain is off his fucking rocker has no business leading this country.

And are we back to fighting for oil (that pipeline running under Georgia) in a foreign country when we're supposed to be weaning ourselves off of it?