Grandpa Knows His Foreign Relations

[Spensed]

if u wanna try to play this as McCain was not killer/winner of the week/destroyed BO on this topic



be my guest



it shows ur complete lack of honesty



while BO was surfboarding and catching up with grams - JMac was telling the world the real deal



the Georgians made a mistake for sure - and underestimated the Russians - that won't happen again with them or other ex Soviet owned lands



I hear that Poland is gonna sign up for the missile def system



hmmm



and the Russians are non too happy



what did they think this would do?



such a game of chess



and BO doesn't know the game



JMac does



BO was "in the dark" here



pick the movie and the character and actor who gave this line - academy award winner



go for it

You started this thread by claiming McCain has some worthwhile foreign relations expertise.

It turns out his expertise is fueled, in some part at least, by pay offs to his main foreign relations adviser and this, in some part at least, encouraged a client state (Georgia) into a foolish confrontation that it can't win, while at, the same time, enabling Russia to discount McCain as a tool of Georgia.

You can try to point away to Obama all you want. But no one got McCain into bed with the lobbyists he so loves but himself.

All this incident has shown is that that McCain's foreign relations expertise, such as it is, can be bought and sold and that's a dangerous situation for everyone, you included. LOL.

 

[Za-Ja-BoManner]

Mmm hooray for Russophobia!

The American media and JMic seem so keen on restarting the Cold War that they seem to be forgetting that this who thing was started by GEORGIA!

GEORGIA was the one who shelled the capital of South Ossetia reportedly killing 1500 civilians, destroying a hospital, university and residential zones, as well as several Russian peacekeepers in the region.

This was an ABSURDLY STUPID move by Georgia, apparently so deluded into thinking the West and America would come riding to their aid risking WWIII over a former Soviet Republic. Georgia made a tragic miscalculation. OF COURSE Russia would respond with overwhelming force! Most S. Ossetians have RUSSIAN citizenship giving the Russkies the rationale of protecting their citizens.

The blame for the decades (nay century?) long tensions in the region may well be on Russia's doorstep, but this round of violence in Georgia's fault, and the Anti-Russian bias THROUGHOUT the US and Western media is nothing short of astounding.

And you say John McCain shows that he is Presidential by talking like he's back in the 60s?

John McCain on the Russian intervention and invation

"Nations don't invade other nations in the 21st Century"

Nice Try John. What exactly do you call the war in Iraq? Or Afghanistan?


"My friends, we have reached a crisis, the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression."

First serious crisis? Is someone forgetting about the Gulf War, Somalia, Chechnya, Rwanda, the FIRST Georgian conflict, the Balkans, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Darfur, and the North Koreans setting off a nuke??

John McCain is either delusional, senile or a fearmonger.

His incessant cozying with Georgia is pathetic as well, especially since one of his foreign policy advisers, Scheunemann, worked as a lobbyist for the Republic of Georgia prior to being on McCain's campaign. Conflict of interest much?

So in this crisis, McCain has shown the United States the OPPOSITE of knowing foreign relations. Indeed I thought that Chance's thread title was being facetious. McCain compounds his LONG LIST of foreign policy gaffes and misunderstandings (talked away by the media as "senior moments" or "part of his charm") by adding an ideological anti-Russian bias that threatens the global economy and stability more than the Russian invasion of Georgia ever could were he allowed to act upon it, and blathering on unintelligently about the significance of this conflict.

First serious crisis since the end of the Cold War my ass.

McCain had an opportunity to look Presidential and take command of this crisis while Obama was on vacation and he failed miserably, managing only to look like a foolish warmonger stuck in the 60s.

 

[Za-Ja-BoManner]

he's not excited

he's concerned

and he knows the good guys from the bad guys

Who are the bad guys Chance? Russia? Georgia certainly aren't the good guys. Life isn't black and white you know. Georgia started this war when it shelled South Ossetia, giving Russia every excuse it needed to go in on South Ossetia's behalf.

unlike BO

who doesn't know


which is scary shit

I suppose you would like to see him angrily denounce Russia and threaten the kinds of threats that you can't follow through on like McCain is doing?

BO will get walked over - just like Bush is now

JMac won't be walked over

and in the end, strength and principal matter

not politicking and on the job training

we cannot afford a newbie here

clearer and clearer every day

McCain is getting walked over by every clear thinking foreign policy expert out there. Unfortunately the intricacies of international relations and the history of the region are lost on the western media.

If McCain were President now we could very possibly be as close to war with Russia now as we were during the Cuban missile crisis! Hooray let's start a new Cold War! That's JUST what we need!

 

[Glafna]

Since the smilies aren't working for me at the moment....

Imagine a standing ovation Za-Ja-Bo's post.

 

[chance1]

Naive claptrap.

We're more likely to end up in another war with McCain than with Obama.

Scrapping tax cuts for the very wealthy isn't rasing taxes indicriminately. It's was McCain himself wanted to do. Remember?

As for class warfare, you think all the Obama and Hillary supporters are going to take more George W. Bush just because he's now repackaged as McCain.

Try waking up and smelling the coffee, Pollyanna. LOL.

claptrap?

did u type claptrap?

wow

sounds like a word u woulda got from grandpa or someone that age

in order to prevent a war - and make sure our enemies/allies know where we stand and communicate it as such - i want JMac at the helm

if we go to war - i want JMac at the helm

in both sitches, he is much better prepared to deal - ask the american public that question

did u notice mccain is surging in the polls? wonder why? perhaps its as i suggested that real people (not JUBBERs) see a direct BO vs. JMac thing here and JMac aces the test with BO needed a remedial course on foreign policy and who's who

i do like my coffee - hazelnut - skim milk - no sugar

 

[chance1]

Who are the bad guys Chance? Russia? Georgia certainly aren't the good guys. Life isn't black and white you know. Georgia started this war when it shelled South Ossetia, giving Russia every excuse it needed to go in on South Ossetia's behalf.



I suppose you would like to see him angrily denounce Russia and threaten the kinds of threats that you can't follow through on like McCain is doing?




McCain is getting walked over by every clear thinking foreign policy expert out there. Unfortunately the intricacies of international relations and the history of the region are lost on the western media.

If McCain were President now we could very possibly be as close to war with Russia now as we were during the Cuban missile crisis! Hooray let's start a new Cold War! That's JUST what we need!

1 - poor za ja - poor poor za ja i write this with a hug not a frown

doesn't realize that Russia created the whole incident - that Russia perpetrated the sitch - baited the Georgians for sure - they're not innocent but are the agrieved party - have u seen pictures/video of what's going on? i guess not - u really should take a look see - despite the "ceasefire" that sarkozy "brokered" russians continued to kill and south ossetians ravaged georgians

take a look at the pictures za-ja - watch cnn - watch the news

ur suggestion that there is some moral equivalency is very scary - and naive - much like BO's take on the sitch - he got it now - he got it late - too late for my liking

2 - mccain didnt' make threats - he told it like it is - strong - that's what Putin/Russia understand - weakness is just that - weakness - in order to have good dialogue u need to be on sound philosophical footing - and cow towing to russia's invasion is a very bad start - JMac was a star here - and the american public agrees

3 - name ur clear thinking foreign policy experts - everyone i have seen on cnn and other nets suggest mccain got the right read/message - that BO/GWB were asleep at the switch

i think a cold war might be in the offing

better than a real war

much like BO za ja - ur lacking in experience - ur smart just like BO - maybe ur even an A student - but ur just lacking in real life experience - which for u is not such a big deal - save for ur erroneous post here (couldn't help it ) - but for BO well - our lives are depending on that experience

have a great trip and a great next semester

take some more history classes will ya?

 

[Spensed]

^ Yeah we really need an angry 72 year old, with senior moment problems, paid off advisers and absolutely no intelligence about foreign diplomancy, to lead us in a war situation. You've been watching too many Sylverster Stallone movies. LOL.

 

[chance1]

^ Yeah we really need an angry 72 year old, with senior moment problems, paid off advisers and absolutely no intelligence about foreign diplomancy, to lead us in a war situation. You've been watching too many Sylverster Stallone movies. LOL.

all i can say about the quality of this post is .............

IT IS CLAPTRAP

PURE UNMITIGATED ........... CLAPTRAP

now that's worth an LOL

and i liked the Rocky movies too

 

[Glafna]

Chance, every news story I read on it before you started posting here stated that the Georgians invaded South Otassia, killing varying amounts of people, which the Russians responded to with a brutal counter-attack.

Your just afraid that Russia might regain the military power it once had as the Soviet Union, and threaten the hold the US has over the world. Hell, your probably afraid of Communism too.

 

[MystikWizard]

Chance, every news story I read on it before you started posting here stated that the Georgians invaded South Otassia, killing varying amounts of people, which the Russians responded to with a brutal counter-attack.

Your just afraid that Russia might regain the military power it once had as the Soviet Union, and threaten the hold the US has over the world. Hell, your probably afraid of Communism too.

This is another clear case of Chance trying to yet again, rewrite history.

Georgia clearly sent their troops into South Ossetia first and attacked the Separatists along with the Russian peacekeepers that were stationed there ... which started the conflict.

Georgia, a former Soviet state, sent troops into South Ossetia on Thursday, aiming to crack down on the separatists, who want independence or unification with North Ossetia, which is in Russia. Russia responded Friday, sending troops into the Georgian province where it had peacekeepers stationed.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/

We have had enough lies told over the years regarding wars and invasions, and I am not going to sit by and let another lie be told on who started this conflict ...

 

[Spensed]

...and i liked the Rocky movies too

Of course you did. LOL.

 

[Kurn]

I have to wonder if Mr. McCain will draw from the same deep well of ignorance on this whole matter that Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice are now doing.


The geo-political analysis that are offered by Lowry, et al., are certainly plausible scenarios.
What is needed is someone who can negotiate progressively and that person is much more Mr. Obama than Mr. McCain.

Of course, Mr McCain might have geopolitical savvy that I have missed. He's trying so hard to play kissy with the Right. "Make-out McCain."

Would he recover from his Don Juan flings enough to become a fully-legitimate President?
I don't want to find out, especially.

 

[chance1]

I have to wonder if Mr. McCain will draw from the same deep well of ignorance on this whole matter that Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice are now doing.


The geo-political analysis that are offered by Lowry, et al., are certainly plausible scenarios.
What is needed is someone who can negotiate progressively and that person is much more Mr. Obama than Mr. McCain.

Of course, Mr McCain might have geopolitical savvy that I have missed. He's trying so hard to play kissy with the Right. "Make-out McCain."

Would he recover from his Don Juan flings enough to become a fully-legitimate President?
I don't want to find out, especially.

i understand ur premise but argue with ur conclusion

in order to negotiate "progressively" and i agree that is key ..........

u have to understand the temperament, the history, the goals, etc. of ur adversary

clearly bush tried to make buddies with putin - not a bad try - worth a try - as long as u understand that u can't put ur head in the clouds thinking that's that - kudos to bush for trying but he/admin should have been better prepared for this - but i applaud his efforts

david brooks has written that gwb is very much a personal sort who tries very hard to develop real relationships with allies and adversaries - which is a good thing - guess he was just fooled as to its effect with putin

back to who's best prepared

i imagine BO will have good peeps at his side - Biden as VP or Sec of Def - and others - and that's great - i don't think we're gonna roll over with BO as Pres because he will have talking heads - quality ones i think - perhaps better than JMac would appoint

if u ask me, cabinet members should be 50% from the other party of the pres - to guarantee bipartisanship or really dialogue not group think from occurring

but the Pres sets the tone - and i just think BO is too naive at this point - and his blah blah blah was not the right tone to set

i could go on and on but already have so ...........

O&O

u should post more Kurn - u bring the level up

 

[Spensed]

....and i just think BO is too naive at this point - and his blah blah blah was not the right tone to set....

The right tone?

McCain is a has-been.

Obama is intelligent, articulate, willing to listen to opposing opinions, made the right call on the Iraq invasion and isn't rigid, angry and set in his ways.

 

[chance1]

The right tone?

McCain is a has-been.

Obama is intelligent, articulate, willing to listen to opposing opinions, made the right call on the Iraq invasion and isn't rigid, angry and set in his ways.

glad im not ur grandparent spensed im assuming u have one

and u think they're "has beens"

cuz they're "old"

next thing u will be saying that we should have a say 65 year old age limit on presidents?

u call a woman this/that and ur a sexist
u call a black guy this/that and ur a racist

u call JMac this/that - and it's fine

it isn't

grow up bro

 

[MrWright]

glad im not ur grandparent spensed im assuming u have one

and u think they're "has beens"

cuz they're "old"

next thing u will be saying that we should have a say 65 year old age limit on presidents?

u call a woman this/that and ur a sexist
u call a black guy this/that and ur a racist

u call JMac this/that - and it's fine

it isn't

grow up bro

Chance don't you get it? The point of a thread is for people to spill all of their internal racist and sexist and classist and age-related biases behind the calm comfort of a computer.

 

[Spensed]

glad im not ur grandparent spensed im assuming u have one

and u think they're "has beens"...

No. Just McCain.

And not based on ageism, but on his words and actions, the whole poor man's Ronald Reagan routine that gullible folk like you fall for. LOL.

 

[Kulindahr]

got no prob with gitmo - no secret - saving american lives is of paramount importance - we're at war oh naked one - and im less concerned about the rights of terrorists - call me crazy - this is an old thread revisited

Chance, why can't you see that the position you're taking is equivalent to handing the president absolute power -- or, in practice, the police he hires. If merely putting someone in detention makes him a terrorist, every one of us is just a policeman's bad mood away from being incarcerated permanently.

No. Just McCain.

And not based on ageism, but on his words and actions, the whole poor man's Ronald Reagan routine that gullible folk like you fall for. LOL.

Sir, you deeply insult a man I respect -- Ronald Reagan!