Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built?

[andysayshi]

Re: Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built

Another way to look at it: what if a Gay Community Centre wanted to open in the general vicinity of a school in a conservative neighbourhood. A local conservative action group complains, claiming their children are likely to be the targets of pedophiles and perverts from the gay centre.

Should the Gay Community Centre be forced to build elsewhere? Does Gay = pedophile in the same way that Moslem Community = Terrorist/Extremist?

 

[palemale]

Re: Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built

Ohhh somebody is getting feisty. Once again you've ignored the fact that the majority of Democrats agree that it shouldn't be built there

Only 40% of Americans believe in evolution. http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwin-birthday-believe-evolution.aspx One thing it proves is that we do an abysmal job in this country with science education. The fact that 60% of the country are morons doesn't mean evolution shouldn't be taught in school.

I asked whether governmental authorities should block construction of the mosque. I asserted that Conservatives and Republicans are whipping people up about this issue to gain votes. Democratic voters are not immune to this. The fact that on 54% are opposed is pretty impressive, actually. Hateful Republicans are much higher.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

Should this mosque/community center be built and some corporation decide to put in a pork processing business next door, would the congregation be accepting of American rights to build wherever we want regardless of their feelings?
NYC has existing mosques elsewhere, why not just expand one and eliminate the contraversy? It would probably be more cost effective also.

 

[MercuryJones]

Should this mosque/community center be built and some corporation decide to put in a pork processing business next door, would the congregation be accepting of American rights to build wherever we want regardless of their feelings?[/quit]

It's not likely that such a plant would meet zoning laws, but if it did I'd support their right to proceed with that too.

What about freedom and liberty do you not understand?

NYC has existing mosques elsewhere, why not just expand one and eliminate the contraversy? It would probably be more cost effective also.

It's not a mosque. It's a community center, with sports and recreation areas. Try to get informed.

 

[MercuryJones]

As I've said before, if you're in NYC you're used to a lot of different people living together. Here's a nice comment and photos of the "Hallowed Ground" from a NYers blog at http://daryllang.com/blog/4421 :

Look at the photos. This neighborhood is not hallowed. The people who live and work here are not obsessed with 9/11. The blocks around Ground Zero are like every other hard-working neighborhood in New York, where Muslims are just another thread of the city fabric.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

Mercury, I'm a native New Yorker and I am informed.
Perhaps you should learn how to read because the first line of my post said mosque/community center.
I also didn't solicit your personal opinion, unless you are a Moslem, about the Moslem reaction to my supposition.

 

[MercuryJones]

Mercury, I'm a native New Yorker and I am informed.
Perhaps you should learn how to read because the first line of my post said mosque/community center.

But it's not a mosque/community center. It's not a mosque, there's not a mosque in it.

I also didn't solicit your personal opinion, unless you are a Moslem, about the Moslem reaction to my supposition.

It's an open thread.

Al Quaeda would like nothing more than holy war between Islam and the West. Unfortunately there are too many in the west who'd like the same. That's one more reason to ignore this divisive shit and support the right of all Americans to live side by side, with everyone's freedom intact.

 

[palemale]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41141.html

I like my governor a great deal and am still pretty glad I voted for him.

Leave it to Christie to say something right, then in the same sentence be an asshole. He accuses Obama (and both parties) of making the issue a political football. What Obama said was perfectly correct and in no way intending to "make a political football" out of the issue. If anything, it was an attempt to defuse the controversy. Republicans are the ones who are clearly stoking the controversy in order to gain some political advantage. Democrats have little to gain, at least in the short term. Muslims have tended to be fairly conservative, and I think have probably voted Republican in pretty large numbers. So, long term, Dems will gain because it will be yet another non-WASP group that the Republicans will have offended and driven into the arms of the Dems.

It is particularly hypocritical of Christie to accuse Obama for making a political football of the issue for expressing an opinion, when that is exactly what Christie is doing. Christie doesn't have the balls to take on his own party, so he tries, rather dishonestly, to cast this as both parties causing the controversy.

 

[palemale]

Mercury, I'm a native New Yorker and I am informed.
Perhaps you should learn how to read because the first line of my post said mosque/community center.
I also didn't solicit your personal opinion, unless you are a Moslem, about the Moslem reaction to my supposition.

First, Mercury is correct. The area around the World Trade Center is low rent and full of a lot of shitty, little businesses. It was that way before the attacks, and it is still that way. It seems to me a religious and cultural center is a better neighbor in the area than strip joints and OTB parlors. Indeed, part of the plan for rebuilding the WTC was to bring cultural and community organizations into the area. At night, the place is dead. The Muslim Center would actually bring people to the neighborhood outside of business hours. I think the people who live in Battery Park City and walk from the subway to their neighborhood would welcome the additional foot traffic such a center would bring.

Keep in mind that many Muslims were killed at the WTC. Dozens of Bangladeshi restaurant workers who worked at Windows on the World were killed, for example. They would all have been Muslim. Don't you think it might be comforting to their relatives if they could attend religious services so close to the spot their loved ones died?

 

[MoltenRock III]

It's easy to believe in the Constitution and equal rights for all until someone says something you disagree with. You cannot possibly deny others their rights, and expect yours will be respected.

To the poster that said, "Just expand another one". What if it was a new gay center? Why would they need a new one, just expand another one. Why does Starbucks need so many places? Why don't they just expand their existing ones? It's America jack! As long as these places of business / worship follow zoning and local laws they should be able to build. PERIOD! No ifs! No ands! No buts!



He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine

We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. ~Edward R. Murrow

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln

 

[MercuryJones]

Keep in mind that many Muslims were killed at the WTC. Dozens of Bangladeshi restaurant workers who worked at Windows on the World were killed, for example. They would all have been Muslim. Don't you think it might be comforting to their relatives if they could attend religious services so close to the spot their loved ones died?

While all this is true, we've already gotten off on the wrong foot nationally by debating it.

One has to wonder also about the military implications. Our forces are in the Middle East trying to say the US is not anti-Muslim and that we are allies. But back home people are being quite anti-Muslim.

 

[MoltenRock III]

While all this is true, we've already gotten off on the wrong foot nationally by debating it.

One has to wonder also about the military implications. Our forces are in the Middle East trying to say the US is not anti-Muslim and that we are allies. But back home people are being quite anti-Muslim.

There's a great article in the NYT discussing this very thing and the significant damage it causes us with the west leaning, moderate, Sufis sect, of Islam. Wingnut politicians know the Constitution isn't on their side, but hey they wipe their asses with the Constitution if it gets them 100 more votes in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/opinion/17dalrymple.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

 

[CowboyBob]

It's easy to believe in the Constitution and equal rights for all until someone says something you disagree with. You cannot possibly deny others their rights, and expect yours will be respected.

To the poster that said, "Just expand another one". What if it was a new gay center? Why would they need a new one, just expand another one. Why does Starbucks need so many places? Why don't they just expand their existing ones? It's America jack! As long as these places of business / worship follow zoning and local laws they should be able to build. PERIOD! No ifs! No ands! No buts!

<insert sarcasm here>

NO NO NO NO NO! When the hell are you going to learn?!

The Constitution only applies if you're a wealthy, white, male, heterosexual Christian. To Hell with everyone else. After all, this is a Christian nation, remember?! Non Christians are going to burn in Hell anyway and can only build their places of *ahem* worship where they're told they can.

Kill the Godless savages. Remind them uppity coloreds that they gotta know their place. Women stay in the kitchen and have babies. It's been nothing but Hell since they got the vote. Them faggots have to go back in the closet. I'm sick and tired of them pushing their agendas down our throats. They're only trying to recruit our children, they are.

Stop feeding the poor. They're too spoiled anyway. They don't want to work. They're lazy.

And what do you know anyway Molten Rock? Aren't you one of them foreigners? Why are you so interested in American politics? (quoted by a JUB troll)

I'm gonna take America back from all you who think you can have a slice of my pie. It's mine, I tell you!

.....what's really demented is there's a lot of people who actually believe this.

 

[palemale]

While all this is true, we've already gotten off on the wrong foot nationally by debating it.

One has to wonder also about the military implications. Our forces are in the Middle East trying to say the US is not anti-Muslim and that we are allies. But back home people are being quite anti-Muslim.

I agree with you Mercury. It's disturbing how so many Republicans continue to exploit, in the most vicious way, the tragedy of the WTC bombing. Especially since they do so by targeting and smearing their fellow citizens because they don't approve of their religion. Just beyond contempt.

The amusing thing is that, before 9/11, the Republicans and Conservatives in the rest of the country hated NYC. We were everything that was wrong with the world. Three thousand of us had to get slaughtered for them to acknowledge there were real people here, with friends and families.

 

[CowboyBob]

I agree with you Mercury. It's disturbing how so many Republicans continue to exploit, in the most vicious way, the tragedy of the WTC bombing. Especially since they do so by targeting and smearing their fellow citizens because they don't approve of their religion. Just beyond contempt.

The amusing thing is that, before 9/11, the Republicans and Conservatives in the rest of the country hated NYC. We were everything that was wrong with the world. Three thousand of us had to get slaughtered for them to acknowledge there were real people here, with friends and families.

Very true. Republicans have politicized this tragedy like no other. They have used it to further their agenda and still are.

 

[laikaNYC]

I agree with you Mercury. It's disturbing how so many Republicans continue to exploit, in the most vicious way, the tragedy of the WTC bombing. Especially since they do so by targeting and smearing their fellow citizens because they don't approve of their religion. Just beyond contempt.

The amusing thing is that, before 9/11, the Republicans and Conservatives in the rest of the country hated NYC. We were everything that was wrong with the world. Three thousand of us had to get slaughtered for them to acknowledge there were real people here, with friends and families.

Don't forget the 54% of Democrats (including Harry Reid) who are "targeting and smearing their follow citizens because they don't approve of their religion"!!

 

[laikaNYC]

Breaking News, THREE Democratic Congressmen from New York come have out AGAINST the Ground Zero Mosque! These three gentleman join numerous other Democratic politicians who have a conscience. 54% of Democrats are also against the building location. Meanwhile, palemale, MercuryJones, and CowboyBob continue to perpetuate this myth that it's just "evil Republicans" against the building near Ground Zero.

I believe a new location is the right compromise so that Muslim Americans can worship without eliciting feelings that push us away from our Country's basic tenet of religious acceptance while the families of 9/11 victims obtain the peace of mind they deserve.

- Congressman Mike McMahon (D-NY)

While they have a constitutional right to build the mosque, it would be better if they had demonstrated more sensitivity to the families of 9/11 victims. I urge them to do so before proceeding further.

- Congressman Steve Israel (D-NY)

As a New Yorker, I believe Ground Zero is sacred ground and should unite us. If the group seeking to build the mosque is sincere in its efforts to bring people together, I would urge them to seek an alternative location which is less divisive. I dispute the wisdom of building at that location, not the constitutional right.

- Congressman Tim Bishop (D-NY)

Democratic New York Congressmen Oppose Ground Zero Mosque

 

[MoltenRock III]

As always, Jon Stewart on the Daily Show illustrates the hypocrisy of Glenn Beck, FOX, and this issue.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade


The Republipukes never learn! They keep stepping on their tiny white dicks. This stupid mosque issue will look just as ridiculous and idiotic as the Republican's intervening in the Terri Schivao case, demanding french fries be renamed to "freedom fries", hoarding duct tape and plastic wrap to try to seal windows in the case of a chemical / dirty nuke bomb, or "death panels".

I honestly think the Republican party is in it's death throes. So either the new, modern Whig party will pick it up, or the party will be a phoenix rising from their ashes.

The modern Whigs get it!

http://www.modernwhig.org/

 

[JB3]

If people feel this strongly about it, perhaps they should just ban any religious establishments from the area. Or, as has been suggested, build a community center for all religions.

Look, I understand why some people don't want the center built. They feel uncomfortable with something related to Islam being built so closely to a disaster that was caused by radical Islam. It appears unseemly, and insensitive.

But that doesn't make their argument any less stupid.

I also think that those that defend the center using the religious freedom argument miss the point. It has nothing to do with religious freedom. It has everything to do with a group of people following the law to a tee and being asked not to because of their religion. Religion should have nothing to do with it. All we should care about is that the group is following the law and the regulations.

 

[MisterMajestic]

What's so CRAZY about this debate is that it's a waste of time...All the paper work, zoning approvals and so on were cleared way back when...There isnt a Damn thing anybody can do about the Center being built...

This story is great for a slow week in Politics...........Next...........