Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built?

[MoltenRock III]

With thanks to MolterRock, from another thread -- this is a "must watch!" for anyone on this topic. Pay special attention to the final part, starting about 7:06:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition

Charlton Heston always spoke well. I didn't necessarily always agree with him politically. But he's right on this, and Constitutional rights.

I really liked this part of his speech:

Somewhere right now evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful, everything we can do to prevent it. But each horrible act can't become an axe for opportunists to cleave the very bill of rights that binds us. America must stop this predictable pattern of reaction, when an isolated terrible event occurs, our phones ring demanding that the NRA explain the inexplicable. Why us? Because their story needs a villain. They want us to play the heavy in their drama of packaged grief.

 

[MoltenRock III]

By the way, there are around 600,000+ Muslims in New York City.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/nyregion/05muslim.html

 

[Sha-Rok]

It's private property, they have the money, they are legit...so build it.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's private property, they have the money, they are legit...so build it.

I'm coming back around to that. But I would really like to see them go back to the Cordoba name and concept, and build where they can have Muslim, Jewish, and Christian side by side in social and scholarly common effort.

They can have Charleton Heston show up as Moses for the dedication.










(I know, he died in '08).

 

[Kulindahr]

Dang kulindahr.... now you have me picturing you running around nekkid.

Fine. But the question is, do I just go charging into that swimming hole? I have the right.

 

[hotatlboi]

The fact that this is even an issue is pathetic.

And the Islamophobia that has been spewed from right wing mouthpieces over this has only served one purpose, to alienate yet another group from the GOP.

They've already turned off blacks, young people, poor people, gays, hispanics, and now they've added muslims.

 

[laikaNYC]

The fact that this is even an issue is pathetic.

And the Islamophobia that has been spewed from right wing mouthpieces over this has only served one purpose, to alienate yet another group from the GOP.

They've already turned off blacks, young people, poor people, gays, hispanics, and now they've added muslims.

Wow, 6 Democratic Congressmen, Harry Reid AND Howard Dean are right wing mouthpieces now? I'm shocked!

 

[Kulindahr]

Wow, 6 Democratic Congressmen, Harry Reid AND Howard Dean are right wing mouthpieces now? I'm shocked!

laika, it would really help your credibility if you learned to read. Every time I'm about ready to decide you're really not a troll, you do something like this.

Your comprehension is also shown to be lacking by your saying that Harry Reid and Howard Dean are spouting Islamophobia.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

I'll make a comparison with freedom of expression.

According to the Oregon State Supreme Court, public nudity is covered under freedom of expression. I can, under the constitution, go naked on the beach, in the park, driving my car, painting my house, even shopping.

So -- I get to a swimming hole, and there are three families with little kids there already. Do I just strip down and charge in?

If the law is on your side, why not?

 

[laikaNYC]

laika, it would really help your credibility if you learned to read. Every time I'm about ready to decide you're really not a troll, you do something like this.

Your comprehension is also shown to be lacking by your saying that Harry Reid and Howard Dean are spouting Islamophobia.

Who is spouting Islamophobia? That's just a red herring.

 

[hotatlboi]

Who is spouting Islamophobia? That's just a red herring.

Please read my post again.

There are a bunch of right wing mouthpieces that are spouting Islamophobia. I did not intimate that anyone opposed to the mosque was doing so.

But many on the right have made this about a general dislike for Muslims, that is readily apparent.

Of course perhaps not to you since you are so indoctrinated about how everything on the far right is always correct.

 

[swmjck]

I'm going to say no, it's totally inappropriate to build anything Muslim near the very site where the Islamic nuts rammed 2 planes into the WTC. Find another site. To me, it's like allowing a group to build a shrine to Hitler next to a Jewish temple. The city should have told this group no the first time the idea was brought to them. Screw the PC police, it's not appropriate. Not sure how they can prevent it from happening, but I hope the idea dies a fast death. My view is the group has an agenda.

 

[said89]

I'm going to say no, it's totally inappropriate to build anything Muslim near the very site where the Islamic nuts rammed 2 planes into the WTC.

your level of education is scary. there's a difference between islamistic people and islamic ones.

To me, it's like allowing a group to build a shrine to Hitler next to a Jewish temple.

bow to you for comparing islam to the holocaust.

ban?

 

[nguypete]

I'm going to say no, it's totally inappropriate to build anything Muslim near the very site where the Islamic nuts rammed 2 planes into the WTC. Find another site. To me, it's like allowing a group to build a shrine to Hitler next to a Jewish temple. The city should have told this group no the first time the idea was brought to them. Screw the PC police, it's not appropriate. Not sure how they can prevent it from happening, but I hope the idea dies a fast death. My view is the group has an agenda.

Did you miss out on the last 4 pages of this thread, or the multiple other threads in this section about this topic... because no offense, you don't raise any valid points.

 

[Kulindahr]

If the law is on your side, why not?

So let's say a gay group is having a picnic. A right-wing fundamentalist ReligoPublican comas along and sits at the same table you're using. He starts telling how gays are perverted, freaks of nature, carriers of disease, and pedophiles.

Now, it's a public park, so he can sit anywhere he wants. He has freedom of speech, so he can say anything he wants.

Would you welcome him doing so?

 

[hotatlboi]

To me, it's like allowing a group to build a shrine to Hitler

Except, a mosque filled with peaceful worshipers is not a shrine to terrorism or anything negative.

We don't hold all of Christianity responsible for the actions of a few nutcases (like people who blow up abortion clinics or the Fred Phelps's who avocate for the death of gays). All Muslims do not deserve to be held in contempt for the actions of a few.

 

[Kulindahr]

Except, a mosque filled with peaceful worshipers is not a shrine to terrorism or anything negative.

We don't hold all of Christianity responsible for the actions of a few nutcases (like people who blow up abortion clinics or the Fred Phelps's who avocate for the death of gays). All Muslims do not deserve to be held in contempt for the actions of a few.

At least Fred Phelps can be regarded as an object of comedy....

The thing is that most Americans never knew anything about Muslims except that they exist, before 9/11. Their first real lesson about Muslims was planes flying into the WTC towers -- and first impressions are lasting.

Nor does it help that there really are wide-spread conspiracies to turn all Islam Islamic, or preachers who think that all Jews everywhere, and their friends, should be killed, no matter where. That's another doe of really negative data.

And do the media help balance it? Not at all: it's shocking news that gets viewers, and an imam proclaiming the peacefulness of the Prophet just isn't news. So the data set of the ignorant remains badly skewed.

Sometimes, in-your-face responses from the maligned break the ignorance; sometimes they make things worse. But this is a pretty mild thing, in that context.

But I could suggest a potent move by these Muslims: state publicly that they find it offensive that St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church has not been allowed to rebuild their church that was destroyed by debris from one of the falling towers. That would make a "Huh?" moment of serious proportions -- and such moments are teachable moments for many.

 

[laikaNYC]

Please read my post again.

There are a bunch of right wing mouthpieces that are spouting Islamophobia. I did not intimate that anyone opposed to the mosque was doing so.

But many on the right have made this about a general dislike for Muslims, that is readily apparent.

Of course perhaps not to you since you are so indoctrinated about how everything on the far right is always correct.

The far right would actually be fascism, which I certainly do not believe is correct.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

Oddly enough no one has questioned whether the proposed community/cultural center/ mosque will also be a site where Sharia law will be permitted or practiced.

One need not be an Islamaphobe to abhor and disapprove of stonings, beheadings, hand amputations, subjugation of women etc.

 

[SuperPsyze]

Oddly enough no one has questioned whether the proposed community/cultural center/ mosque will also be a site where Sharia law will be permitted or practiced.

One need not be an Islamaphobe to abhor and disapprove of stonings, beheadings, hand amputations, subjugation of women etc.

But you're condemning one group of Muslims for the actions of another group. I'm pretty sure Muslims in the United States have not participated in stonings, beheadings, hand amputations, or subjugation of women. They're law abiding citizens like the rest of us. You're confusing a sect of Muslims on the other side of the world with the Muslims that live here in the United States.

That's equivalent to saying that Jews are a violent people because of all the war and chaos in Palestine .