Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built?

[unclaimedblessing]

It has nothing to do with this or that subsect of Islam.
It's law supposedly derived from the Koran for Moslems everywhere.

 

[SuperPsyze]

It has nothing to do with this or that subsect of Islam.
It's law supposedly derived from the Koran for Moslems everywhere.

And there are "laws" supposedly derived from the Bible. But I don't see every Christian and Jew having sex with his dead brother's wife so that his brother can have a proper heir.

 

[MercuryJones]

To me, it's like allowing a group to build a shrine to Hitler next to a Jewish temple. The city should have told this group no the first time the idea was brought to them.

That's like holding all Christians accountable for the holocaust.

But on what grounds would NYC have told the group no?

 

[MercuryJones]

Oddly enough no one has questioned whether the proposed community/cultural center/ mosque will also be a site where Sharia law will be permitted or practiced.

Because no one is fucking stupid enough to think that Sharia law can be substituted for US law in a building in the United States.

Wait, I take it back - there might be a few who are that fucking stupid.

 

[hotatlboi]

The thing is that most Americans never knew anything about Muslims except that they exist, before 9/11. Their first real lesson about Muslims was planes flying into the WTC towers -- and first impressions are lasting.

Nor does it help that there really are wide-spread conspiracies to turn all Islam Islamic, or preachers who think that all Jews everywhere, and their friends, should be killed, no matter where. That's another doe of really negative data.

And do the media help balance it? Not at all: it's shocking news that gets viewers, and an imam proclaiming the peacefulness of the Prophet just isn't news. So the data set of the ignorant remains badly skewed.

I realize all that, however just because a large segment of the population has allowed themselves to develop a myopic worldview that is hopelessly restricted to skewed viewpoints of other religious developed within their Judeo-Christian perspective does not mean that we should restrict religious freedom simply to placate this ignorant group of people.

 

[MoltenRock III]

I realize all that, however just because a large segment of the population has allowed themselves to develop a myopic worldview that is hopelessly restricted to skewed viewpoints of other religious developed within their Judeo-Christian perspective does not mean that we should restrict religious freedom simply to placate this ignorant group of people.

I agree with both of you. Yes Americans should know more as they are woefully ignorant of the world around them.

However, Kuli does have a legitimate point about the media not doing their job. Instead it's all carnage and hype. I've heard so many conservatives whine about "why don't moderates stand up against the extremists", and yet they actually do. But moderates don't make the media circus, it's just the nut jobs. Why does Fred Phelps always get on TV? Because he's so extreme TV people love to bring him on, to then chastise him.

 

[rareboy]

laika, it would really help your credibility if you learned to read. Every time I'm about ready to decide you're really not a troll, you do something like this.

Your comprehension is also shown to be lacking by your saying that Harry Reid and Howard Dean are spouting Islamophobia.

Quoted for truth.

But again, we only encourage it to hang around by responding to it.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

To those who think muslims shouldn't build a center in NYC, do you also think Mormons shouldn't have temples and chapels in Boston, Albany, and the whole state of Illinois?

Any exmormon will know what I mean.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

The practice/approval of Sharia law has already become a issue in the UK.

 

[MercuryJones]

The practice/approval of Sharia law has already become a issue in the UK.

Perhaps people in the US will come to regret the concessions made to Christian extremists when the same are required by law to be applied to Muslims.

But there is not a single reason to think that within this building will have a different code of law than the rest of the United States. To suggest there could or will be is sensationalist trash, no better than saying if gays are allowed to marry they will be legally permitted to rape children.

 

[Kulindahr]

I suspect it will be built, but whether or not it's built right there is a different matter.

 

[MoltenRock III]

I heard Ed Rollins on CNN, when asked if he thought it would be built, say he didn't believe any union workers would touch the project - so that alone will kill it.

Are you kidding? The economy is the USA sucks, and especially so for construction trades. There will be plenty of people lining up to do the work. There's a lot of pain and suffering right now from laid off / unemployed skilled craftspeople.

 

[MercuryJones]

Before anything new is built, why not resolve the issues about St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church?

Why should everyone whose projects are in order and approved have to wait for St Nicholas's to be satisfied?

 

[MercuryJones]

Because they were there even before the WTC, actually experienced total destruction, and should have been given priority in the first place. Maybe priority is the wrong term here. Fairness would be appropriate. If someone had a business or a church and they were negotiating with the authorities about it being rebuilt, how fair is it to allow a new business, church or mosque to be built before settling a previous obligation to those that were there first?

Every property is on its own trajectory. Who knows what the issues may be with any individual building?

There isn't a NYC Religious Building Authority saying "Yes Muslims, no Greek Orthodox!"

There are always processes with zoning approval, permitting and so on. If someone has actual evidence of some wrongdoing, that's one thing - but this at least sounds like business as usual in urban planning. The fact that one is a church and one an Islamic community center is the only reason anyone is making a comparison.

There's no reason on earth for anyone to stop and wait until everyone else feels they're in the order they should be in. You get your approvals and permits and you get to work, just like everyone else does.

 

[nguypete]

I thought the Greek Orthodox settled with their insurance company, I don't know, I'm off to a gala right now and it's 8:23 in the morning but if someone who isn't in a rush will look up the issue... I swear it's been resolved.

 

[MercuryJones]

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100822/REAL_ESTATE/308229977

The simple answer is that the church at 155 Cedar St. sits on Ground Zero, while the Islamic center, Park51, does not.

The backstory: After Sept. 11, then-Gov. George Pataki offered the tiny, four-story church a chance to move to a larger Ground Zero site. After years of negotiations, in 2008, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey offered $20 million, plus $40 million worth of subsurface infrastructure, for the church to build a new 8,000-square-foot house of worship at 130 Liberty St. Port Authority officials say the church then asked for more money and approval power over the vehicle security center being built underground. The authority held firm, and the church walked away.

That left the church exactly where it started: with the right to build on its original site without public money. But because that land is also part of the Ground Zero footprint, church officials must wait to build until the Port Authority completes the vehicle security center in 2013.

 

[rareboy]

^ Oh by now you must realize that facts and logic are pearls before swine when it comes to the foamy mouthed mobs urged on by FOXSNOOZ

 

[koontzfanwv]

Re: Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built

And isn't it funny that our soldiers are dying in Iraq ostensibly to free and protect Muslims, but Muslims aren't supposed to have a community center in NYC?

I think the Democrats in New York,the vast majority of the voting public in that state should decide the issue. I'd be interested to see if the Democrats in NY are anything like the Democrat voters in California who because of an election,banned homosexuals the freedom to be married. Let's let a Democrat majority once again decide the fate of the mosque/comminity center.

 

[MercuryJones]

Re: Ground Zero Mosque -- Should it Be Built

I think the Democrats in New York,the vast majority of the voting public in that state should decide the issue.

The issue is already decided by the US Constitution.

Let's let a Democrat majority once again decide the fate of the mosque/comminity center.

How do you justify such an unconstitutional process?

 

[Kulindahr]

I heard Ed Rollins on CNN, when asked if he thought it would be built, say he didn't believe any union workers would touch the project - so that alone will kill it.

Too bad it isn't a free country.