Happy "Shock and Awe" 5 Year Anniversary

[chance1]

Blaming the president and his minions for the disaster in Iraq is never cute and never funny and definitely not bullshit. And the surge in troops has worked to quell the violence ONLY to a pre-surge level, it has not stopped it. It has done nothing, not one thing, to solve the problem. The Iraq gov't is not doing anything to regain control of it's own country. We're still stuck with the Bush created quagmire. Our troops cannot be pulled out (but they will be) without having a complete collapse of the area . Americans and our allies will continue to die and the Iraq citizens will still be getting killed by us or the butchers that want control.

No, chance, it's not funny. The sarcasm in the title is aimed at Bush and his drones...he's the one who wanted to present this attack on a nation as a macho move of "wait till they see how big our Military Dick is 'shock and awe' "...he's the one that wanted to declare the "mission accomplished"...he's the one that should have trouble sleeping at night when he knows what he's done to our troops, out coalition troops and the Iraqi citizens.

For someone who to this very day can't help but mention any minor detail of the Clinton's past, I'm shocked that you think we should all just forget who got us into this current mess.

Sleep well, Mr. President. Mission accomplished.

way to use the dead and injured to make ur political attack

"bush and his drones"

"macho move"

U know so very much i guess - or u just make it up as u go along - whatever suits ur opinion fits i guess - no need for facts - and pull "mission accomplished" out and take it out of context cuz .......... yeah it's just so the point u wanna make

smelter and "others" might be appreciative

but i think it blows

so it's biz as usual on JUB

 

[barefootbob]

in July 2003 this is what that fucktard in the white house said

... American troops under fire in Iraq aren't about to pull out, and he challenged those tempted to attack U.S. forces, "Bring them on." We'll stay the course in Iraq," Bush said. "We're not leaving until we accomplish the task, and the task is going to be a free country run by the Iraqi people." He and his aides offered no timetable for the withdrawal of American forces.

There are some who feel like that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is bring them on," Bush said. "We've got the force necessary to deal with the security situation."


- well they sure brought it on, 4,000 US military dead and tens of thousands injured
- Iraq IS a free country run by the Iraqi people .. remeber the election ?
he didn't have the necessary force to deal with the situation.. remember the surge of last year ?

bush's mishandling, bungling, inept, pig headed, sorry fucking excuse for a leader, war has left America, broke, the Army tired and ill prepared for another conflict, the American people disillusioned (the non-bush lovers)

how you can defend this peace of shit president is beyond me.

 

[andysayshi]

way to use the dead and injured to make ur political attack

"bush and his drones"

"macho move"

U know so very much i guess - or u just make it up as u go along - whatever suits ur opinion fits i guess - no need for facts - and pull "mission accomplished" out and take it out of context cuz .......... yeah it's just so the point u wanna make

smelter and "others" might be appreciative

but i think it blows

so it's biz as usual on JUB

Chance, war IS politics. Referring to the dead and wounded is a reality of war. In WW2 a list of dead and wounded used to sit on the front page of most daily newspapers. Perhaps part of the reason the American people are not marching in the streets is the fact that this administration has done its best to sanitize and hide the realities of the mortal cost of war.

Sorry if the reality of war offends your sensibilities. But real people are dying every day, and it didn't have to happen. If the mistakes of this war are not analyzed and measured, if people are not held accountable for any corruption or misdeeds, then there is nothing to stop it happening all over again.

There are mountains of evidence to suggest that the Bush administration took the US to war without proper planning, without adequate cause, without defined goals. You may wish to bury your head in the sand, but many people want answers to how this can have happened, and want guarantees that such negligence will not happen again.

Accountability is a necessary part of politics and war.

 

[chance1]

Chance, war IS politics. Referring to the dead and wounded is a reality of war. In WW2 a list of dead and wounded used to sit on the front page of most daily newspapers. Perhaps part of the reason the American people are not marching in the streets is the fact that this administration has done its best to sanitize and hide the realities of the mortal cost of war.

Sorry if the reality of war offends your sensibilities. But real people are dying every day, and it didn't have to happen. If the mistakes of this war are not analyzed and measured, if people are not held accountable for any corruption or misdeeds, then there is nothing to stop it happening all over again.

There are mountains of evidence to suggest that the Bush administration took the US to war without proper planning, without adequate cause, without defined goals. You may wish to bury your head in the sand, but many people want answers to how this can have happened, and want guarantees that such negligence will not happen again.

Accountability is a necessary part of politics and war.

do u think the list of dead in WWII was followed by a "FDR is a murderer" thingy?

wasn't around then - but i doubt it

that's the diff

the reality of war DOES NOT offend my sensibilities - it clearly offends many here - who feel the need to blame someone/a party/an admin on any/all - as if that will bring the dead back or cure the wounded - it won't

ur "mountains of evidence" is untrue - and many - including our allies - and those running for president - hillary now, edwards - agreed with the position to go to war - the majority did - so ............

accountability is fine - name calling and placing blame like this is not that

it's just noise

i totally respect ur position - but i don't think mattie's post is in sync with what ur saying

 

[smelter]

To adequately support the force levels needed to fight two wars at the same time, a draft needed to be instituted. Does anyone on this forum (read Chance) believe that this 5 year old war in Iraq would be continuing if that were the case? Students on campuses throughout the United States would be marching on the White House and burning Bush and Cheney in effigy.

Comparing this war to WWII is simply ridiculous. The Vietnam war is the closest one in our history that approaches this level of stupidity.

 

[chance1]

Please! Dear GOD PLEASE tell me you are not saying that FDR and Bush are anything alike in this case. And PLEASE tell me you don't think WWII and the Iraq War are even similar.

andy brought up the listing of the dead during WWII

as a ref point to what ur post

they're very similar that they're both wars - yeah - wars

but i don't think there were personal attacks on the pres like there are today

could be wrong

 

[naked gent]

ur "mountains of evidence" is untrue - and many - including our allies - and those running for president - hillary now, edwards - agreed with the position to go to war - the majority did - so ............

accountability is fine - name calling and placing blame like this is not that

chance if you don't find it profitable to look back lets do as you wish and look forward.

The Bush administration is currently trying to cut a deal with the Iraqi's for a permanent american military presence in Iraq without seeking congressional approval even though many say they'll need it.

Everyone was for the war......blah blah but are you for that? Today do you support the Bush administrations plans for Iraq going forward?

Last week when Martha Raddatz asked Vice President Cheney to comment on the fact that 60% of americans think the war a mistake his answer was "so"

My point being that however bad any of us might believe this all has gone if the future includes a permanent american military presence in Iraq along the range of 50,000 troops to the Cheneys and the Bushs of this world this war will be deemed a success and certainly worth the cost.

Iraq became a mess because they never gave a shit about it. It wasn't until the increasing violence jeopardized our continuing presence there that they decided to act.

Their goal is to keep us there and in doing so they'll float that darn terrorist threat again....try not to fall for it this time.....please.

 

[naked gent]

^^ Hey if its all the same to you pal if they're using my money I'd like to think my opinion counts.

I'm not foolish enough to believe it does but I don't need it thrown in my face.

 

[andysayshi]

A quality documentary about why the Iraq war has failed so monumentally, and the negligence that caused that failure:

http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=184

This film chronicles the reasons behind Iraq’s descent into guerilla war, warlord rule, criminality and anarchy, “No End In Sight” is a jaw-dropping, insider’s tale of wholesale incompetence, recklessness and venality. Based on over 200 hours of footage, the film provides a candid retelling of the events following the fall of Baghdad in 2003 by high ranking officials such as former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, Ambassador Barbara Bodine (in charge of Baghdad during the Spring of 2003), Lawrence Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell, and General Jay Garner (in charge of the occupation of Iraq through May 2003) as well as Iraqi civilians, American soldiers, and prominent analysts.

“No End In Sight” examines the manner in which the principal errors of U.S. policy – the use of insufficient troop levels, allowing the looting of Baghdad, the purging of professionals from the Iraqi government, and the disbanding of the Iraqi military – largely created the insurgency and chaos that engulf Iraq today. How did a group of men with little or no military experience, knowledge of the Arab world or personal experience in Iraq come to make such flagrantly debilitating decisions?

“No End In Sight” dissects the people, issues and facts behind the Bush Administration’s decisions and their consequences on the ground to provide a powerful look into how arrogance and ignorance turned a military victory into a seemingly endless and deepening nightmare of a war.

 

[Ninja108]

all the Iraqi civilians maimed and killed, all the troops and the families that have been destroyed. And for what? Nothing more than to help Bush with his ego and Cheney and his partners make more money.