Harper Government to be found in Contempt

[Kulindahr]

I am not a fan of Monarchial rule.

I would fuck the piss out of Prince Harry, though, and tell him anything he wanted to hear while I was there.

My monarchs would be very, very limited.

Maybe I should do my thread on constitutional monarchial libertarianism.

 

[Callum]

Meh, I think the Liberal Party is a dying party. They've had nothing but a string of morons since Chretien left. Just look at the polls, the NDP is on the rise - not the Grits.

I'll still probably vote for the Conservatives, however.

 

[The_Reaper]

Sadly, for the left wingers in Canada (like myself), this will likely end with a whimper more than a bang.

For some reason, Harper and his Conservatives continue to poll well, despite a new scandal breaking every other week. For non-Canadians, this is a fairly comprehensive list of the things the Harper Conservatives have had trouble with over the past four weeks:

1.) As this thread mentions, the Government is running the risk of being found in contempt for refusing to provide proper budgeting information for their law and order bills. Effectively, they wanted Parliament to pass the bills without the costs being released to either non-Conservative parliamentarians and the public.

2.) A Harper Government Cabinet Minister is also likely going to be found in contempt, after it is alleged that she lied to a parliamentary committee and the House of Commons. Bev Oda's department denied $7 million dollars in funding to a charity organization, after a document was doctored (after it had been signed by two civil servants) to change the meaning of the document.

Oda initially suggested she did not know who inserted a 'not' into the document, but recently admitted that the not was inserted under her orders.

3.) The Government continues to push ahead with plans to buy what they say is $17 billion dollars in stealth fighters for the Canadian Air Force, after they 'sole-tendered' (aka did not seek a bidding process) with Lockheed Martin. The independent parliamentary budget officer, however, has said that the fighters are likely to cost Canada closer to $30 billion dollars in the long run.

Again, they refuse to release any actual documents on the price of the fighters.

4.) A staffer 'resigned' after a letter seeking donations for the Conservative Party, as well as a Conservative plan to target ethnic voters, was sent on ministerial letterhead from the office of the Minister of Immigration. The staffer 'resigned', and the Minister claims no wrong doing...

BUT, the fact that a staffer inside a Ministry was tasked with sending such a letter is still a breach of ethics; since staffers are 'civil servants' and supposed to be non-partisan; as such, sending a letter for the Conservatives (even if it was a normal letterhead) through a staffer is still a breach of ethics.

5.) Another former Conservative staffer is being investigated by the RCMP after a year long look into whether or not he interfered in Access to Information requests. Effectively, this staffer would 'un-release' information, by ordering certain documents to be either heavily redacted or refusing to release them at all.

That is not within a staffer's, or a Minister's, purview.

6.) A former adviser to the PMO (Prime Minister's Office), is also being investigated by the RCMP for allegations that he expressed to certain First Nations groups that he could provide them access to the Prime Minister and other government officials in exchange for cash.

This is the same type of allegations that were brought against Rahim Jaffer, a former Tory MP, a few years ago.

7.) Four top Tories, including two senators, are being investigated in their roles in election spending manipulation in the 2006 election that brought Harper into power. Effectively, the Tories spent more money than legally allowed by funneling money into and out of regional campaigns to use towards national expenses.

Also, because of this, those regional campaigns were welcome to large tax refunds on the campaigns for money they didn't actually spend. As such, these four individuals face the possibility of heavy fines and even jail time.


This is the Harper Government.

And to think, in 2006, Canadians voted for open and transparent government to replace the scandal ridden Liberals. I guess until one of the Ministers is caught directly taking money from the public purse, Canadians are willing to put up with these other breaches.

The only thing we can hope for, as left-wingers, is that the Liberals don't lose too many seats and that the NDP doesn't either. If the Bloc loses seats, hopefully it's to the Liberals or NDP...And if the Liberals or NDP lose seats, hopefully it's to each other...

That way, we can get a coalition government in place that will actually get rid of Harper and his 'transparent' government.

And FYI, if Harper doesn't get a majority in the coming election, he's done as leader. He's had his shots, and his party is notorious (given the history of the PCs and Reform/Alliance) for dumping leaders once it's clear they aren't going to be major winners. Stockwell Day, anyone?

 

[Kulindahr]

Holy crap.

The corrupt and embezzling bureaucrats of Byzantium would be astounded at the audacity.





And the utter lack of skill. Corruption is supposed to be covered by accounting that allows it to be hidden in plain sight, with the appearance that all is in order.

 

[Aaron]

And to think, in 2006, Canadians voted for open and transparent government to replace the scandal ridden Liberals. I guess until one of the Ministers is caught directly taking money from the public purse, Canadians are willing to put up with these other breaches.

A good chunk of the Canadians that follow politics closely have been pretty upset with Harper's behaviour. The problem is that the broad scope of Canadians has had this perception that, right or wrong, and despite the arrogance and troubling behaviour in the commons, the Tories are managerially competent, good with the books, and good custodians of the economy. It remains to be seen whether this perception has been eroded to any great extent.

The only thing we can hope for, as left-wingers, is that the Liberals don't lose too many seats and that the NDP doesn't either. If the Bloc loses seats, hopefully it's to the Liberals or NDP...And if the Liberals or NDP lose seats, hopefully it's to each other...

The Liberals' best shot in Quebec is to not put money into the province so the Bloc takes as many seats from the Tories as possible. If the public does decide they don't want to put up with the Tories anymore, the NDP stand to lose substantially. Swing voters would move to the Liberals since they are the only ones who have a chance to replace the Tories. Strategic voting in action. The NDP have seen this before and lost because of it, another reason why there is still a chance that they might find a reason to support the government before the week is out.

That way, we can get a coalition government in place that will actually get rid of Harper and his 'transparent' government.

Wishful thinking. 'Coalition' has about a negative of a connotation as 'Dion' these days thanks to the antics of the Opposition a couple of years ago and the Tory attack ads. You should be careful what you wish for, too. When it looked like the coalition had a decent shot of forming government, NDP polling numbers dropped big time along with the coalition's overall support. I'd be surprised if the coalition lasted a year, anyway, especially if they depend on Bloc support like they would have last time.

And FYI, if Harper doesn't get a majority in the coming election, he's done as leader. He's had his shots, and his party is notorious (given the history of the PCs and Reform/Alliance) for dumping leaders once it's clear they aren't going to be major winners. Stockwell Day, anyone?

Iggy will be gone by the summer if he loses an election (a prospect I find quite exciting), too. So if you think he is as poisonous to the Liberal cause as I do, that makes an election a bit of a win-win for the Liberal Party.

 

[bankside]

Iggy will be gone by the summer if he loses an election (a prospect I find quite exciting), too. So if you think he is as poisonous to the Liberal cause as I do, that makes an election a bit of a win-win for the Liberal Party.

Usually people who talk this way follow up with wide eyes excitedly blurting out "...and then Bob Rae will finally have his chance!!!!"

I hope you don't throw your hat in with them, because it would give us nothing but a decade of Conservative majorities.

The best thing to hope for in this situation is a Liberal government under Iggy, if not a majority then a minority with support from the NDP after they ditch The Moustache.

 

[Aaron]

Usually people who talk this way follow up with wide eyes excitedly blurting out "...and then Bob Rae will finally have his chance!!!!"

I hope you don't throw your hat in with them, because it would give us nothing but a decade of Conservative majorities.

The best thing to hope for in this situation is a Liberal government under Iggy, if not a majority then a minority with support from the NDP after they ditch The Moustache.

Bob Rae? Hahaha... because that wouldn't be another disaster!

At this point I'm undecided on who I'd vote for (though I'm leaning Tory), and I think you and I disagree that a government under Iggy would be the best thing we could hope for.

But, it sounds like we might just agree about "The Moustache"... I wish he would go back to his used car lot.

 

[The_Reaper]

A good chunk of the Canadians that follow politics closely have been pretty upset with Harper's behaviour. The problem is that the broad scope of Canadians has had this perception that, right or wrong, and despite the arrogance and troubling behaviour in the commons, the Tories are managerially competent, good with the books, and good custodians of the economy. It remains to be seen whether this perception has been eroded to any great extent.

The problem is, as most Canadians should be aware, is that provincially speaking the Conservatives are not sound prudent managers. And federally speaking, if the opposition hadn't pushed for stimulus spending (and if the prior governments had put in place regulations and such on the banks), Canada would be in worse shape. The Conservatives did little, if anything, to reap the benefits they claimed to have produced.

The Liberals' best shot in Quebec is to not put money into the province so the Bloc takes as many seats from the Tories as possible. If the public does decide they don't want to put up with the Tories anymore, the NDP stand to lose substantially. Swing voters would move to the Liberals since they are the only ones who have a chance to replace the Tories. Strategic voting in action. The NDP have seen this before and lost because of it, another reason why there is still a chance that they might find a reason to support the government before the week is out.

I seem to recall the NDP actually heating up in Quebec polling numbers, so who knows how that will play out. The Tories will try to buy the Bloc this week, no doubt, which may prompt the Bloc to support the budget and maybe even vote no in a non-confidence measure.

Wishful thinking. 'Coalition' has about a negative of a connotation as 'Dion' these days thanks to the antics of the Opposition a couple of years ago and the Tory attack ads. You should be careful what you wish for, too. When it looked like the coalition had a decent shot of forming government, NDP polling numbers dropped big time along with the coalition's overall support. I'd be surprised if the coalition lasted a year, anyway, especially if they depend on Bloc support like they would have last time.

Actually, I think with other Parliamentary democracies being placed into coalition situations, Canadians may actually warm up to the idea...Since they see the rest of the world functioning within that system. The UK and Australia have their coalitions, and Canada might be able to jump on board as well.

I think the fact that coalitions have been formed out of elections, might spur Canadians to recheck whether or not Harper's accusations of 'treason' and other naughty words as an assessment of the coalition.

Of course, this is easier done if the NDP/Liberals are able to form a coalition without the Bloc getting involved, by keeping or increasing their current seats.

The parties might take an initial drop in the polls if they form a coalition, but if they manage to get things done that would change over time.

Iggy will be gone by the summer if he loses an election (a prospect I find quite exciting), too. So if you think he is as poisonous to the Liberal cause as I do, that makes an election a bit of a win-win for the Liberal Party.

The problem is, for a long time, the Liberals don't have an heir apparent. What happened to Frank McKenna? Allan Rock? Hell, even Shelia Copps...

As for the NDP, I think Layton's been a decent enough leader...Though Thomas Mulcair is clearly positioning himself for a run at the leadership when Layton does step aside; and having met him in person, I think he's got the gusto to be a damned fine leader as well.

 

[rareboy]

So it looks as though HarperCo. is going to give the New Democrats a good rimming today and avoid an election.

This could be the best session of parliament yet.

 

[Aaron]

The problem is, as most Canadians should be aware, is that provincially speaking the Conservatives are not sound prudent managers. And federally speaking, if the opposition hadn't pushed for stimulus spending (and if the prior governments had put in place regulations and such on the banks), Canada would be in worse shape. The Conservatives did little, if anything, to reap the benefits they claimed to have produced.

In my opinion, the BC Liberals, who are closer to the Tories than the federal Liberals, did a terrific job of managing the economy in BC for the most part (granted, only one province, though). As I understand it, too, there will be as many as 7 provincial elections this year, and a number of them are set to move right in their votes, electing conservative governments. I can't recall a source for that, though.

If the opposition hadn't pushed for stimulus spending, the economy could very well be just as good as it is right now. There are plenty of economic works out there that question the validity of stimulus spending. In some cases, by the time it usually gets rolling and out to people who can spend it, it's questionable whether it was needed in the first place.

Your right - Canada's strong economy is largely thanks to previous governments. But if the Tories are still in government through 2011 and the economy tanks again later this year (entirely possible), I wonder who'll be blamed. Hypocrisy much? Voters credit the Government of the day with both good and bad economic performance. Any party would take the credit for the good, and deflect credit for the bad.

I seem to recall the NDP actually heating up in Quebec polling numbers, so who knows how that will play out. The Tories will try to buy the Bloc this week, no doubt, which may prompt the Bloc to support the budget and maybe even vote no in a non-confidence measure.

I actually think the Tories will try to buy the NDP. The Bloc stands to gain from an election; the NDP stands to lose big time.

Actually, I think with other Parliamentary democracies being placed into coalition situations, Canadians may actually warm up to the idea...Since they see the rest of the world functioning within that system. The UK and Australia have their coalitions, and Canada might be able to jump on board as well.

I think the fact that coalitions have been formed out of elections, might spur Canadians to recheck whether or not Harper's accusations of 'treason' and other naughty words as an assessment of the coalition.

Of course, this is easier done if the NDP/Liberals are able to form a coalition without the Bloc getting involved, by keeping or increasing their current seats.

The parties might take an initial drop in the polls if they form a coalition, but if they manage to get things done that would change over time.

Comments like "treason" were no doubt made in reference to the Bloc being involved. Which, in my opinion, is embarrassing beyond description. I said before the last election that the only thing worse than a Liberal Government under Dion would be an NDP Government under anyone. But then that pathetic coalition business cropped up, and suddenly I would have preferred a straight NDP government over one that depended on separatists to stay alive.

The problem is, for a long time, the Liberals don't have an heir apparent. What happened to Frank McKenna? Allan Rock? Hell, even Shelia Copps...

As for the NDP, I think Layton's been a decent enough leader...Though Thomas Mulcair is clearly positioning himself for a run at the leadership when Layton does step aside; and having met him in person, I think he's got the gusto to be a damned fine leader as well.

There is a good chance we'll see two or three leaders go if we have a spring election. Jack Layton is one of them. I'm not exactly his biggest fan, but I don't really care if he goes or who takes over. Doesn't matter who they put in charge - I won't vote for them, and I'm quite happy to keep the NDP in perpetual opposition.

 

[bankside]

WELL,
The budget looks sure to fail, and The Harper Government™ along with it. Do you think the opposition will vote against the budget, or bring them down on the question of contempt?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/03/22/pol-budget-main.html

Opposition leaders immediately rejected the Conservative government's budget Tuesday, setting the stage for a possible spring election.

Within minutes of Finance Minister Jim Flaherty tabling his "low-tax plan for jobs and growth" in the House of Commons, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff, Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe and NDP Jack Layton all said the budget didn't contain enough to warrant their support.

"We find that the priorities of this government are not the priorities of ordinary Canadians," Ignatieff said.

 

[Aaron]

I'm sure the Tories will do whatever they can to ensure that the budget vote happens before the contempt vote.

 

[FanofFiction]

Even with all the corruption, I find it funny that the government is coming down over the budget. I haven't had a chance to read through the budget myself, yet. But I've heard some negative things from different interest groups.

I don't expect the Cons. to be ousted after the election though. I would like to see them lose some seats. I'd like to see more Libs. and NDPs. put into parliament. At the risk of sounding anti-Quebec (which I'm not) I would like to see some Bloq seats go to the NDP and Liberals as well.

A part of me was expecting Harper to prorogue parliament when the Bev Oda shit hit the fan.

 

[rareboy]

The government is not coming down over the budget.

It will be for contempt of parliament.

 

[Keelandson]

The government is not coming down over the budget.

It will be for contempt of parliament.

The Tories being hit with contempt-of-Parliament charges is not only a first for Canada, it's a first for any parliamentary democracy in the Commonwealth, if the pundits can be believed.

Added to The_Reaper's list is the Tories boycotting committees to prevent quorums bringing malfeasance charges against Tory MPs.

 

[Keelandson]

With falls of governments, bills yet to be proclaimed drop dead. This time that would include the new Tory U.S.-pigopolist-ass-kissing copyright bill.

 

[landers]

Harper has been making lots of bills (probably more than any other prime minister) confidence matters, meaning that their defeat would trigger the dissolution of parliament and and election. The Main opposition liberals have been abstaining from these votes in order to avoid an unwanted election (until now).

 

[hotatlboi]

wow im shocked that a confidence vote was allowed to be held! lol

 

[Kulindahr]

Harper has been making lots of bills (probably more than any other prime minister) confidence matters, meaning that their defeat would trigger the dissolution of parliament and and election. The Main opposition liberals have been abstaining from these votes in order to avoid an unwanted election (until now).

That's a rather slimy way of manipulating things.

 

[silosybin]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/03/26/cv-election-writ.html

election is official now...