JayHawk
Rambunctiously Pugnacious
I just saw the latest HP and he makes me cream my pants. Besides that the story is quite gripping. The cinematics astounding. In short it is another excellent HP flick. Good God those birtish accents. Yum
The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums
-
Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community
In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
If you do not have an account, please register.
REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your InfoTo register, turn off your VPN; you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.
Harry Potter - theories.
- Thread starter star-warrior
- Start date
phloidf787
On the Prowl
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2006
- Posts
- 125
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
Here are some of my theories for book 7:
Snape: All of book 6 they were stressing non-verbal incantations, especially as a method to keep your enemies guessing. This raised a question in my mind, could someone, like a powerful wizard such as Snape, recite an incantation verbally but simultaneously giving all their focus to a different non-verbal spell? By this reasoning, Snape could in theory have just sent out green light that he knew would fool everyone, while appearing to do the Avada Kedavra curse. Then the questions becomes, could this change in incantation fool the unbreakable vow? I think it might, since a spell like that seems to be rather subjective to me. In my mind, as long as it were perceived that he had met the circumstances, then they would be met.
The Death of a main Character: (Spoilers) In book six a main character apparently met their end. I do not think this person is dead. I am of course referring to Dumbledore. If you recall, the only person who ever touched the body was Hagrid, arguably the most loyal person to the head master in all of the UK. Additionally, as the coffin puffed into smoke, Harry thought he saw a flash of red (ie Fawkes). If you recall, House Elves and Phoenixes are the only two magical beings that can apparate and disapparate on school grounds. I think that Snape and Dumbledore concocted a plan to be able to get Snape out of the vow, while also further cementing Snape's apparent loyalty to Voldemort. Hagrid was brought in because above all he could be trusted to keep it secret. Hagrid made sure no one else got close enough to get a good look at the "body" and took it away. Then at the funeral Fawkes removed Dumbledore to safety. In my opinion, Dumbledore Lives!
RAB: I think RAB is Sirius's brother. He got scared by what was going down with Voldemort and decided to get out while he could and hurt him if he could. He stole the horcrux and put it in the Black family home, right in the open where no one would notice it. When Harry and the others were "cleaning" Black's house in book 5 Harry found a locket, for all we know that was the horcrux.
Harry as a Horcrux: I think this is a rather silly notion. To be a horcrux, Harry would need to be alive. We all know Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow that horrible October night to kill Harry. He didn't know he wouldn't succeed until everything had already backfired. How the heck would this leave him time to make Harry a horcrux? Furthermore, I imagine a murder would need to be committed specifically for the creation of a horcrux, and as James and Lily were just killed to get to Harry he wouldn't have had making a horcrux on his to-do list. Nope, I'll print out this post and eat it if Harry is a Horcrux!
Neville: As has been covered over and over and over again, yes the prophecy could have referred to either Harry or Neville, but the second Voldemort went for Harry he made the prophecy about harry. That means Neville can absolutely not have anything to do with it at this point. Yeah he may be there at the final fight, but in the end it will come down to Harry and Voldemort. Neville never had a role to play because Harry was chosen by Voldemort.
I think that covers everything I had on my mind.
Snape: All of book 6 they were stressing non-verbal incantations, especially as a method to keep your enemies guessing. This raised a question in my mind, could someone, like a powerful wizard such as Snape, recite an incantation verbally but simultaneously giving all their focus to a different non-verbal spell? By this reasoning, Snape could in theory have just sent out green light that he knew would fool everyone, while appearing to do the Avada Kedavra curse. Then the questions becomes, could this change in incantation fool the unbreakable vow? I think it might, since a spell like that seems to be rather subjective to me. In my mind, as long as it were perceived that he had met the circumstances, then they would be met.
The Death of a main Character: (Spoilers) In book six a main character apparently met their end. I do not think this person is dead. I am of course referring to Dumbledore. If you recall, the only person who ever touched the body was Hagrid, arguably the most loyal person to the head master in all of the UK. Additionally, as the coffin puffed into smoke, Harry thought he saw a flash of red (ie Fawkes). If you recall, House Elves and Phoenixes are the only two magical beings that can apparate and disapparate on school grounds. I think that Snape and Dumbledore concocted a plan to be able to get Snape out of the vow, while also further cementing Snape's apparent loyalty to Voldemort. Hagrid was brought in because above all he could be trusted to keep it secret. Hagrid made sure no one else got close enough to get a good look at the "body" and took it away. Then at the funeral Fawkes removed Dumbledore to safety. In my opinion, Dumbledore Lives!
RAB: I think RAB is Sirius's brother. He got scared by what was going down with Voldemort and decided to get out while he could and hurt him if he could. He stole the horcrux and put it in the Black family home, right in the open where no one would notice it. When Harry and the others were "cleaning" Black's house in book 5 Harry found a locket, for all we know that was the horcrux.
Harry as a Horcrux: I think this is a rather silly notion. To be a horcrux, Harry would need to be alive. We all know Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow that horrible October night to kill Harry. He didn't know he wouldn't succeed until everything had already backfired. How the heck would this leave him time to make Harry a horcrux? Furthermore, I imagine a murder would need to be committed specifically for the creation of a horcrux, and as James and Lily were just killed to get to Harry he wouldn't have had making a horcrux on his to-do list. Nope, I'll print out this post and eat it if Harry is a Horcrux!
Neville: As has been covered over and over and over again, yes the prophecy could have referred to either Harry or Neville, but the second Voldemort went for Harry he made the prophecy about harry. That means Neville can absolutely not have anything to do with it at this point. Yeah he may be there at the final fight, but in the end it will come down to Harry and Voldemort. Neville never had a role to play because Harry was chosen by Voldemort.
I think that covers everything I had on my mind.
phloidf787
On the Prowl
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2006
- Posts
- 125
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
bump bump bump
Claudio63
JUB Addict
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Posts
- 1,099
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 0
what if Harry and Voldemort are really father and son.
Yechhh! Here's hoping you're wrong. I always thought one of the sappiest moments of the whole Star Wars saga was Vader's "Luke I'm your father". I would roll my eyes high up in my head if Rowlings was that melodramatic.
Anyway, my two cents: the main thing that has kept me reading (and loving) the Potter books is Rowlings ability to sometimes make me believe supposedly "obvious" things and then coming up with a surprise. SPOILER FOR BLOOD PRINCE BOOK: I believed for example that the potion's book was Voldemort's (especially since nobody suspected him) and was prepared for such a "revelation" but was rather surprised to find out who the half-blood prince really was. SO something tells me that Harry Potter being a Horcrux is another suspicion Rowlings has mislead us to believe. That lady may not be Agatha Christie, but she's clever enough not to too obvious.
Claudio63
JUB Addict
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Posts
- 1,099
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 0
SPOILERS (and a lamebrained theory) AHEAD
R.A.B:
The potion was the horcrux, Dumbledore knew this, drank the potion plus part of Voldemorts soul and his plan was to have Voldemort's minions kill him to get rid of the horcrux. IF someone like Malfoy wasn't up to the task, then Dumbledore's faithful aid Snape would have to regrettably do the deed. With "Please Severus" he pleads to kill him knowing it's no easy task for Snape; and it takes a lot of courage for Snape to do it , which is why he tells Potter never to call him a coward.
I think this is a great theory except for the minor detail that Dumbledore's initials just aren't R.A.B. Well, I told you it was a lamebrained theory!
R.A.B:
The potion was the horcrux, Dumbledore knew this, drank the potion plus part of Voldemorts soul and his plan was to have Voldemort's minions kill him to get rid of the horcrux. IF someone like Malfoy wasn't up to the task, then Dumbledore's faithful aid Snape would have to regrettably do the deed. With "Please Severus" he pleads to kill him knowing it's no easy task for Snape; and it takes a lot of courage for Snape to do it , which is why he tells Potter never to call him a coward.
I think this is a great theory except for the minor detail that Dumbledore's initials just aren't R.A.B. Well, I told you it was a lamebrained theory!
Irish Queer
JUB Addict
1st theory Tom Riddle lives but Voldomort dies
2nd Theory Dumbledore comes back, Snape actually is a good guy and find out how James saved his life and Harry beats LV.
3rd Harry the Weasley's if they don't die, the Order, School friends and even his Muggle family have a show down with LV. Each expresses their love for Harry etc which in turn gives him the power to distory LV.
2nd Theory Dumbledore comes back, Snape actually is a good guy and find out how James saved his life and Harry beats LV.
3rd Harry the Weasley's if they don't die, the Order, School friends and even his Muggle family have a show down with LV. Each expresses their love for Harry etc which in turn gives him the power to distory LV.
Ohiospeedo
JUB Addict
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Posts
- 2,667
- Reaction score
- 4
- Points
- 0
My theory on that (Just read the book and don't have here in front of me) is that Dumbledore said the boat was made for one magical person, but because Harry's magic level wasn't too powerful, the lake wouldn't be able to detect him. So therefore, you can't have two wizards. At least that is what I remember from reading the book last week.
Apollo
Do you lick pussy?
lol that last part about love defeating Voldermort is so anime style. lol but that might happen.
i'm about to start reading the book again tonight and soak up as much as i can and see if my theories hold true. the last two times i read the book i teared up when Dumbledore died. the first time i bawled. so lets hope this time nothing happens.
I also thought that the book belonged to V, however i think the fact the book can from Snapes mother leads me to believe the character of Snape plays a vital role in the ending - and the killing of Dumbledore may have been deemed nessecary in the destruction on V. The idea of Harry as a part of Vs soul doesn't fit at all with the story so far, his intention in destroying harry was because he believed him to be the boy who was spoken of in the propechy - why would he place a part of his soul in a boy who hes been trying to kill for 16 years?
Apparently J.K.Rowling describes the up and coming book as a blood bath, meaning not all the characters make it out alive - people assumed 2 characters are going to die, but J.K said on a chat show that she had decided to kill an extra 2 characters off, aswell as the many she had already planned. I am looking forward to the book, but all this speculation will be blown out of the water by the real thing.
The last word in the book was intended to be scar for a long time, but has now been changed - the words of J.K.Rowling.
three_wish35
On the Prowl
I agree with Viktor that Kreacher + Regulus is a likely candidate for the R.A.B. character but then he wouldn't fit into the initials
Boo.I must commend your theory. It's really great, but I personally love the next one:
Good thinking there lads, but if you're all ready for the big one, read my next post(s)...
three_wish35
On the Prowl
The Heremoine Granger Theory
NOTICE: This is not my own theory. I cannot recall how I came upon the following text. Please note that this text was published after the release of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Unfortunately, the following text was unfinished. If you have any information as to the original source of this text and/or it's ending, please post it here or pm me.
The following theory is inundated with spoilers and speculations. However likely the facts may seem, I believe they are purely coincedental, but that belief doesn't mean I don't have faith in them.
Setting that aside, here's to tonight's midnight release of the last installment in the Harry Potter series, and also to those who will be up all night into the next morning, reading the spellbinding enchantment that is the craft of J.K. Rowling. So without further ado:
TO BE CONTINUED in my next post...
NOTICE: This is not my own theory. I cannot recall how I came upon the following text. Please note that this text was published after the release of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Unfortunately, the following text was unfinished. If you have any information as to the original source of this text and/or it's ending, please post it here or pm me.
The following theory is inundated with spoilers and speculations. However likely the facts may seem, I believe they are purely coincedental, but that belief doesn't mean I don't have faith in them.
Setting that aside, here's to tonight's midnight release of the last installment in the Harry Potter series, and also to those who will be up all night into the next morning, reading the spellbinding enchantment that is the craft of J.K. Rowling. So without further ado:
Why Hermione Granger holds the power to Vanquish the Dark Lord
RM McDougal ©2004
(Revised May 2005)
I think birthdays are important
On at least two occasions, JK Rowling has revealed a highly critical piece of information to the world. Both times, the information was given in an unsolicited manner, and almost as an afterthought. When information is given in that manner, what the reader or listener receives is treated as a piece of trivia, and so little or no attention is given to it.
One of those occasions was during the famous Comic Relief chat with Jo Rowling on March 12, 2001. You can see the full transcript of that internet chat here: http://www.hogwarts-library.net/reference/interviews/20010312_ComicRelief.html
During the Q&A, one lucky Harry Potter fan asked her the following question:
Karin L Robinson (Question63): When is Ron's Birthday?
And J. K. Rowling answered: First of March, in case you're thinking of sending him a card and Hermione is the nineteenth of September.
As the question concerned only Ron and his birth date, it is interesting to see Jo’s response then included the birth date for Hermione Granger – September 19th. One would take in that piece of data, and then store it away for trivia’s sake with not much of a thought or care about it. Ah yes, let’s send Ron a card and we wouldn’t want to forget Hermione!
The other occasion currently resides on Jo Rowling’s website: www.jkrowling.com
Under Extra Stuff about the Character Hermione Granger we find the following five facts:
-- In the old days the question I was asked most often was, 'how do you pronounce the girl's name?' As I expect you have noticed, I cunningly inserted the answer to this question in 'Goblet of Fire', when I had Hermione instruct Viktor Krum how to say it properly: Her - my - o - nee. I used to hear 'Her - moyne' a lot, but my favourite mis-pronunciation ever was 'Hermy - one.' I think I like it better than the proper way.
-- In the dim and distant past Hermione's surname was 'Puckle', but it didn't suit her at all and was quickly changed for something a little bit less frivolous.
-- Hermione's birthday is September the 19th.
-- When we were editing 'Philosopher's Stone' my editor wanted me to cut the scene in which Harry, Ron and Hermione fight the troll. Although I had accepted most of the smaller cuts he wanted me to make I argued hard for this one. Hermione, bless her, is so very annoying in the early part of 'Philosopher's Stone' that I really felt it needed something (literally) huge to bring her together with Harry and Ron.
-- I have often said that Hermione is a bit like me when I was younger. I think I was seen by other people as a right little know-it-all, but I hope that it is clear that underneath Hermione's swottiness there is a lot of insecurity and a great fear of failure (as shown by her Boggart in 'Prisoner of Azkaban').
And so there it is again, smack dab in the middle of this bit of trivia about that "window dressing" of a character named Hermione Jane Granger. Her birthday is September 19th.
Now, had Jo Rowling not even mentioned this fact on these two occasions, I would not be currently setting down my thoughts in writing. I would be going along with a carefree attitude about the stories, enjoying them with the rest of the world, all the time assuming that Harry Potter will eventually save the world by vanquishing the Dark Lord.
So, what’s so significant about September 19th? And for that matter, why the date of March 1st?
Well, as for March 1st , I will only say right now that it points us to the real significance of September 19th!
And so again, what’s so significant about September 19th?
Let’s fix a timeline
Before we get to that, I would like, first of all, to set aright the proper timeline for the Harry Potter world. There are some very admirable attempts at constructing timelines for Harry Potter, but they all seem to get it wrong about a few critical things. Jo Rowling has not come forward to "correct" some seeming difficulties in the timeline, and I now know that she has her reasons for not doing so. The inconsistencies are meant to be there in order to keep us off balance! If she made it too obvious, the game will have been given away.
So, let’s discuss the timeline in brief.
The basis for all the correct timelines in Harry Potter has to do with Nearly Headless Nick’s date of death – October 31st, 1492. We know from The Chamber of Secrets that Nick was having a 500th Deathday party to which Harry, Hermione, and Ron were all invited.
Thus, when Harry was in his second year at Hogwarts, the year is 1492 + 500 = 1992.
A real world example: The 500th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’ discovery of the new world in 1492 was held in 1992.
This means that Harry turned 12 at "the end of July" in 1992. He was born "at the end of July" in 1980. So, this is all indisputable fact.
1979 or 1980
The next question is then, based on the proper timeline, was Hermione born in 1979, or in 1980?
Jo Rowling has recently confirmed for the world that Hermione Granger was indeed born on September 19, 1979. See the question and Jo's response at her website here.
In the Q&A at the National Press Club, October 20, 1999, Jo Rowling stated, in regard to Hermione’s name, that it came from a character in Shakespeare's play A Winter's Tale, although Jo says that the characters are not at all similar. Jo thought it made sense for a couple of professional dentists to name their only daughter something like that to show how clever they were. But she chose a very unusual name because she worried that, if there were a real child somewhere who was bright and had larger-than-usual front teeth that had the same name, she might get teased. [emphasis mine]
Professional dentists named her Hermione in order to show how clever they were? What does that mean?
Well, it means this.
If we go to the year 1979 and refer to the calendar for September we see that the 19th falls on a Wednesday. The Roman date for September 19, 1979 is: "Today is the day of Mercury, the fourteenth day before the Calends of October, in the year of our Lord 1979"
Mercury! Dentists! Mercury amalgam is the stuff of which dental fillings are made.
And what is the chemical symbol for the element mercury?
Hg…. Hermione granger!
Thus, the clever dentists called the Grangers found a truly fitting name for their daughter based on the day that she was born – September 19, 1979.
By the way, the word "Wednesday" comes from:
The Middle English wodnesday, wednesday, or wednesdai,
The Old English wodnesdæg "Woden's day",
The Latin dies Mercurii "day of Mercury",
And the Ancient Greek hemera Hermu "day of Hermes"
Hermes…..Hermione!!
So a triple significance exists because of that date and Hermione’s name -- very clever indeed. (Actually, there is a quadruple significance about her birthday and name -- see M-Antoinette Wood's essay on Hermione Jane Granger......Royalty? Mercury is known as a Noble Metal!)
RM McDougal ©2004
(Revised May 2005)
I think birthdays are important
On at least two occasions, JK Rowling has revealed a highly critical piece of information to the world. Both times, the information was given in an unsolicited manner, and almost as an afterthought. When information is given in that manner, what the reader or listener receives is treated as a piece of trivia, and so little or no attention is given to it.
One of those occasions was during the famous Comic Relief chat with Jo Rowling on March 12, 2001. You can see the full transcript of that internet chat here: http://www.hogwarts-library.net/reference/interviews/20010312_ComicRelief.html
During the Q&A, one lucky Harry Potter fan asked her the following question:
Karin L Robinson (Question63): When is Ron's Birthday?
And J. K. Rowling answered: First of March, in case you're thinking of sending him a card and Hermione is the nineteenth of September.
As the question concerned only Ron and his birth date, it is interesting to see Jo’s response then included the birth date for Hermione Granger – September 19th. One would take in that piece of data, and then store it away for trivia’s sake with not much of a thought or care about it. Ah yes, let’s send Ron a card and we wouldn’t want to forget Hermione!
The other occasion currently resides on Jo Rowling’s website: www.jkrowling.com
Under Extra Stuff about the Character Hermione Granger we find the following five facts:
-- In the old days the question I was asked most often was, 'how do you pronounce the girl's name?' As I expect you have noticed, I cunningly inserted the answer to this question in 'Goblet of Fire', when I had Hermione instruct Viktor Krum how to say it properly: Her - my - o - nee. I used to hear 'Her - moyne' a lot, but my favourite mis-pronunciation ever was 'Hermy - one.' I think I like it better than the proper way.
-- In the dim and distant past Hermione's surname was 'Puckle', but it didn't suit her at all and was quickly changed for something a little bit less frivolous.
-- Hermione's birthday is September the 19th.
-- When we were editing 'Philosopher's Stone' my editor wanted me to cut the scene in which Harry, Ron and Hermione fight the troll. Although I had accepted most of the smaller cuts he wanted me to make I argued hard for this one. Hermione, bless her, is so very annoying in the early part of 'Philosopher's Stone' that I really felt it needed something (literally) huge to bring her together with Harry and Ron.
-- I have often said that Hermione is a bit like me when I was younger. I think I was seen by other people as a right little know-it-all, but I hope that it is clear that underneath Hermione's swottiness there is a lot of insecurity and a great fear of failure (as shown by her Boggart in 'Prisoner of Azkaban').
And so there it is again, smack dab in the middle of this bit of trivia about that "window dressing" of a character named Hermione Jane Granger. Her birthday is September 19th.
Now, had Jo Rowling not even mentioned this fact on these two occasions, I would not be currently setting down my thoughts in writing. I would be going along with a carefree attitude about the stories, enjoying them with the rest of the world, all the time assuming that Harry Potter will eventually save the world by vanquishing the Dark Lord.
So, what’s so significant about September 19th? And for that matter, why the date of March 1st?
Well, as for March 1st , I will only say right now that it points us to the real significance of September 19th!
And so again, what’s so significant about September 19th?
Let’s fix a timeline
Before we get to that, I would like, first of all, to set aright the proper timeline for the Harry Potter world. There are some very admirable attempts at constructing timelines for Harry Potter, but they all seem to get it wrong about a few critical things. Jo Rowling has not come forward to "correct" some seeming difficulties in the timeline, and I now know that she has her reasons for not doing so. The inconsistencies are meant to be there in order to keep us off balance! If she made it too obvious, the game will have been given away.
So, let’s discuss the timeline in brief.
The basis for all the correct timelines in Harry Potter has to do with Nearly Headless Nick’s date of death – October 31st, 1492. We know from The Chamber of Secrets that Nick was having a 500th Deathday party to which Harry, Hermione, and Ron were all invited.
Thus, when Harry was in his second year at Hogwarts, the year is 1492 + 500 = 1992.
A real world example: The 500th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’ discovery of the new world in 1492 was held in 1992.
This means that Harry turned 12 at "the end of July" in 1992. He was born "at the end of July" in 1980. So, this is all indisputable fact.
1979 or 1980
The next question is then, based on the proper timeline, was Hermione born in 1979, or in 1980?
Jo Rowling has recently confirmed for the world that Hermione Granger was indeed born on September 19, 1979. See the question and Jo's response at her website here.
In the Q&A at the National Press Club, October 20, 1999, Jo Rowling stated, in regard to Hermione’s name, that it came from a character in Shakespeare's play A Winter's Tale, although Jo says that the characters are not at all similar. Jo thought it made sense for a couple of professional dentists to name their only daughter something like that to show how clever they were. But she chose a very unusual name because she worried that, if there were a real child somewhere who was bright and had larger-than-usual front teeth that had the same name, she might get teased. [emphasis mine]
Professional dentists named her Hermione in order to show how clever they were? What does that mean?
Well, it means this.
If we go to the year 1979 and refer to the calendar for September we see that the 19th falls on a Wednesday. The Roman date for September 19, 1979 is: "Today is the day of Mercury, the fourteenth day before the Calends of October, in the year of our Lord 1979"
Mercury! Dentists! Mercury amalgam is the stuff of which dental fillings are made.
And what is the chemical symbol for the element mercury?
Hg…. Hermione granger!
Thus, the clever dentists called the Grangers found a truly fitting name for their daughter based on the day that she was born – September 19, 1979.
By the way, the word "Wednesday" comes from:
The Middle English wodnesday, wednesday, or wednesdai,
The Old English wodnesdæg "Woden's day",
The Latin dies Mercurii "day of Mercury",
And the Ancient Greek hemera Hermu "day of Hermes"
Hermes…..Hermione!!
So a triple significance exists because of that date and Hermione’s name -- very clever indeed. (Actually, there is a quadruple significance about her birthday and name -- see M-Antoinette Wood's essay on Hermione Jane Granger......Royalty? Mercury is known as a Noble Metal!)
TO BE CONTINUED in my next post...
three_wish35
On the Prowl
Cont'd: The Heremoine Granger Theory pt.2
Continued from previous post:
And that's that. The text was unfinished.. What do you guys think??
Continued from previous post:
Okay, so what now? What is so amazing about September 19, 1979?
A Prophecy is made
We know after book 5 – Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix – that a prophecy was made by Sybill Trelawney, at the time a prospective Divination teacher at Hogwarts. That prophecy was the reason that Harry Potter’s parents died, and why Voldemort tried to kill Harry as well. Voldemort knew part of the prophecy because his spy overheard part of what Trelawney said. Voldemort believed that the prophecy was about Harry Potter. But the key point here is that Voldemort only received part of the prophecy.
Neville Longbottom, Harry’s class and housemate, has been considered a likely candidate as the one referred to in the Trelawney prophecy. However, I believe Jo Rowling gave us Neville as a distraction in order to keep our attention away from the obvious.
Here is the passage from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix that describes what I have stated so far.
<< Dumbledore surveyed him for a moment through his glasses. 'The odd thing, Harry, ' he said softly, 'is that it may not have meant you at all. Sybill's prophecy could have applied to two wizard boys, both born at the end of July that year, both of whom had parents in the Order of the Phoenix, both sets of parents having narrowly escaped Voldemort three times. One, of course, was you. The other was Neville Longbottom.'
'But then ... but then, why was it my name on the prophecy and not Neville's?'
'The official record was re-labelled after Voldemort's attack on you as a child, ' said Dumbledore. 'It seemed plain to the keeper of the Hall of Prophecy that Voldemort could only have tried to kill you because he knew you to be the one to whom Sybill was referring.'
'Then - it might not be me?' said Harry.
'I am afraid, ' said Dumbledore slowly, looking as though every word cost him a great effort, 'that there is no doubt that it is you. 'But you said - Neville was born at the end of July, too - and his mum and dad - 'You are forgetting the next part of the prophecy, the final identifying feature of the boy who could vanquish Voldemort ... Voldemort himself would mark him as his equal. And so he did, Harry. He chose you, not Neville. He gave you the scar that has proved both blessing and curse.'
'But he might have chosen wrong!' said Harry. 'He might have marked the wrong person!'
'He chose the boy he thought most likely to be a danger to him, ' said Dumbledore.
'And notice this, Harry: he chose, not the pureblood (which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing) but the half-blood, like himself. He saw himself in you before he had ever seen you, and in marking you with that scar, he did not kill you, as he intended, but gave you powers, and a future, which have fitted you to escape him not once, but four times so far - something that neither your parents, nor Neville's parents, ever achieved.'
'Why did he do it, then?' said Harry, who felt numb and cold. 'Why did he try and kill me as a baby? He should have waited to see whether Neville or I looked more dangerous when we were older and tried to kill whoever it was then --
'That might, indeed, have been the more practical course, ' said Dumbledore, 'except that Voldemort's information about the prophecy was incomplete. The Hog's Head inn, which Sybill chose for its cheapness, has long attracted, shall we say, a more interesting clientele than the Three Broomsticks. As you and your friends found out to your cost, and I to mine that night, it is a place where it is never safe to assume you are not being overheard. Of course, I had not dreamed, when I set out to meet Sybill Trelawney, that I would hear anything worth overhearing. My - our - one stroke of good fortune was that the eavesdropper was detected only a short way into the prophecy and thrown from the building.'
'So he only heard -?
'He heard only the beginning, the part foretelling the birth of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort. Consequently, he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you, and marking you as his equal. So Voldemort never knew that there might be danger in attacking you, that it might be wise to wait, to learn more. He did not know that you would have power the Dark Lord knows not --
'But I don't!' said Harry, in a strangled voice. 'I haven't any powers he hasn't got, I couldn't fight the way he did tonight, I can't possess people or - or kill them -'
'There is a room in the Department of Mysteries, ' interrupted Dumbledore, 'that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took you to save Sirius tonight. That power also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests. In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you.'>>
So, at least according to Dumbledore, Harry Potter is the one Sybill Trelawney indicated when she gave that prophecy so many years before.
Harry quite can’t believe it, because he says that he has not the power to vanquish the Dark Lord. He severely wounded him, but was not able to finally conquer Voldemort.
Well, in this instance, Harry's assessment is correct.. And so this means that the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord is not Harry Potter or Neville Longbottom.
I believe that Hermione Granger is the one who has the power to finally conquer Voldemort.
And I will prove it based on the prophecy itself and how Hermione Granger fits into it.
Let’s begin then with the prophecy itself. I will then break it down to its constituent parts and then make some comments on each piece of the puzzle.
From Chapter 37 of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix we have the prophecy:
<>
The first part is: 'The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... born to those…’
Sybill Trelawney here indicates that the one with the power is approaching and will soon be born.
If you remember her second prophecy, which occurred in The Prisoner of Azkaban, that prophecy was fulfilled less than 12 hours later. If this is any indicator as far as prophecies go, then it may imply that the one approaching will be born in a very short time.
So when, did Sybill Trelawney make her first prophecy? Let’s examine the clues.
Dumbledore describes his first meeting with Sybill Trelawney in Order of the Phoenix:
<<'On a cold, wet night sixteen years ago, in a room above the bar at the Hog's Head inn. I had gone there to see an applicant for the post of Divination teacher, though it was against my inclination to allow the subject of Divination to continue at all. The applicant, however, was the great-great-granddaughter of a very famous, very gifted Seer and I thought it common politeness to meet her. I was disappointed. It seemed to me that she had not a trace of the gift herself. I told her, courteously I hope, that I did not think she would be suitable for the post. I turned to leave.'>>
Okay, the time Dumbledore is referring to is sixteen years previous to the current time. The current date is late Spring of 1996. Harry is 15 years old and in his fifth year at Hogwarts. Hermione is 16 years old and in her fifth year at Hogwarts. Sixteen-plus years previous to the current date would make it Summer-1979 to Spring-1980.
Second, Dumbledore went to the meeting sixteen years ago to "see an applicant for the post of Divination teacher". So, it was a job interview to fill a teaching vacancy.
This implies that the meeting probably took place sometime in the fall, near the beginning of the school year – Autumn-1979.
Can we pinpoint exactly when the meeting took place? Yes, we can get quite close.
From book 5, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, we have the following exchange between Dolores Umbridge and Professor Trelawney:
<< Professor Umbridge was now standing at Professor Trelawneys shoulder making notes while the Divination teacher questioned Neville about his dream diary. 'What night did you dream this again?' Ron said, immersed in calculations. 'I dunno, last night, whenever you like, ' Harry told him, trying to listen to what Umbridge was saying to Professor Trelawney. They were only a table away from him and Ron now. Professor Umbridge was making another note on her clipboard and Professor Trelawney was looking extremely put out. 'Now, ' said Umbridge, looking up at Trelawney, 'you've been in this post how long, exactly?' Professor Trelawney scowled at her, arms crossed and shoulders hunched as though wishing to protect herself as much as possible from the indignity of the inspection. After a slight pause in which she seemed to decide that the question was not so offensive that she could reasonably ignore it, she said in a deeply resentful tone, 'Nearly sixteen years.'>> [emphasis mine]
When did this conversation take place? At the beginning of the second week of school., i.e. in the second week of September.
So, Sybill Trelawney had yet to be hired on as Divination teacher by the second week of September 1979.
Later in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, the following occurs in Professor Trelawney’s class:
<< The class stared perplexedly at her, then at each other. Harry, however, thought he knew what was the matter. As Professor Trelawney flounced back to the high-backed teacher's chair, her magnified eyes full of angry tears, he leaned his head closer to Ron's and muttered, 'I think she's got the results of her inspection back.' 'Professor?' said Parvati Patil in a hushed voice (she and Lavender had always rather admired Professor Trelawney). 'Professor, is there anything - er - wrong?'
'Wrong!' cried Professor Trelawney in a voice throbbing with emotion. 'Certainly not! I have been insulted, certainly... insinuations have been made against me... unfounded accusations levelled... but no, there is nothing wrong, certainly not!' She took a great shuddering breath and looked away from Parvati, angry tears spilling from under her glasses. 'I say nothing, ' she choked, 'of sixteen years of devoted service... it has passed, apparently, unnoticed... but I shall not be insulted, no, I shall not!' 'But, Professor, who's insulting you?' asked Parvati timidly. The Establishment!' said Professor Trelawney, in a deep, dramatic, wavering voice. 'Yes, those with eyes too clouded by the mundane to See as I See, to Know as I Know... of course, we Seers have always been feared, always persecuted... it is - alas -our fate.'>> [emphasis mine]
And the time frame Professor Trelawney makes these statements? Early to mid-October.
Her words: "of sixteen years of devoted service... it has passed, apparently, unnoticed..." imply that her sixteenth anniversary as a teacher came and went without anyone apparently noticing.
That is, her 16th anniversary as a teacher at Hogwarts occurred sometime between the second week of September and the 2nd - 3rd week of October.
This means that she was hired by Dumbledore in the same time frame in the year 1979.
Hermione Granger was born on September 19, 1979.
Hence, the night when Sybill Trelawney made her famous prophecy and the day that Hermione Granger was born lies in very close proximity to each other.
The next part of the prophecy states: "born to those who have thrice defied him, "
"Born to those" can mean several things:
1. It can indicate the immediate "parents" specifically Mr. and Mrs. Granger, or
2. the Granger family through more than one generation, or
3. it can mean a "class" of people like nobility versus commoners, or
4. it can mean the world of Muggles as opposed to the world of Wizards.
"Defied" means 1 : to challenge to combat; 2 : to challenge to do something considered impossible : DARE; 3 : to confront with assured power of resistance : DISREGARD ; 4 : to resist attempts at : WITHSTAND
While we know very little at this point in the story (Book Five) of the parentage of Hermione Granger, any argument specifying them as the object of this part of the prophecy would be necessarily weak; likewise with any speculation on the Granger family through several generations, or even the class of society from which Hermione comes.
The strongest hypothesis in this regard has to do with the concept that the Muggles have thriced defied Voldemort. How so? We know for instance that Voldemort’s own Muggle father "disregarded" both he and his mother, thus "defying" them. Likewise, Tom Riddle's parents -- Voldemort's grandparents -- both "defied" him. After all, there were three that were found murdered at the Riddle home, and we know what happens to anyone who "defies" the Dark Lord!
Hermione Granger comes from a family where no one was ever a wizard or witch. She is completely Muggle-born, and thus was "born to those" that thrice defied Voldemort.
The next part of the prophecy states: "born as the seventh month dies ..."
Dumbledore, as well as Voldemort, along with most everyone else assumes that this indicates that the person identified as the Vanquisher was born in the month of July, and more specifically "at the end of July".
However, if one examines the history of the calendar and goes back to the original Roman calendar, the situation changes dramatically.
The names of all our months come from Latin.
January - from Januarius. Named after Janus, the two-headed god of beginnings.
February - from Februarius.
March - from Martius. Named after Mars, the god of war, it was originally the first month of the Roman year.
April - from Aprilis.
May - from Maius. Named after Maia, the mother of Mercury
June - from Junius. Named after Juno, the queen of the gods.
July - from Julius. Named after Julius Caesar, this month was originally called Quintilis, a word related to the adjective quintus, meaning fifth. (Quintilis was the fifth month of the year when the calendar started with Martius.)
August - from Augustus. Named after Augustus Caesar, this month was originally called Sextilis, related to sextus, sixth, because it was originally the sixth month of the year.
September, October, November, and December are taken directly from Latin.
The words for these months are related to septimus, octavus, nonus, and decimus, because they were originally the seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth months of the year.
Septimus for September – the SEVENTH MONTH of the year!
One can see the relationship now between Ron Weasley’s birthday and that of Hermione.
Ron’s birthday was originally the first day of the year.
In general, the Roman calendar was built around the phases of the moon or the lunar cycle. The lunar cycle begins with the New Moon, hits the midway point of its cycle when the moon waxes to Full, and then wanes (or dies) until the New Moon is again reached.
September 19th is a day in the seventh month, which historically occurred during the waning or "dying" of the moon.
More specifically, the word "month" comes from the old English word "moonth" which means "lunar cycle". If one counts from March 1st of 1979 and proceeds to September of 1979, they will find that the SEVENTH MOONTH or Lunar Cycle of 1979 DIED on September 20th!! The New Moon, in September 1979, occurred on September 21st thus beginning the next lunar cycle.
Hermione Granger was born "as the seventh month died".
The prophecy continues: "and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal"
Tom Marvolo Riddle, aka Voldemort, was "the brightest wizard of his age." Hermione Granger has been described by practically everyone, including Harry Potter, as the "brightest witch of her age", thus in terms of academic stature and keenness of mind, Hermione is "graded" or "marked" as Voldemort’s equal. (This section will be augmented with specific examples – RMM) I believe also that Voldemort will begin to realize this in the next chapters of Harry Potter and as a result, Hermione will be placed in a great deal of peril and danger! Hence our need to form the League of Protection!!
The use of the word "mark" is very interesting. We last ran across that reference in Book 1: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone. At the end of the story Dumbledore is talking to Harry. Here is what he says:
<< "Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot understand, it is love. He didn't realize that love as powerful as your mother's for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible sign... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was agony to touch a person marked by something so good.">>
Here are some alternate definitions of the verb "mark": 1 : GRADE as in mark term papers, 2 : CHARACTERIZE, DISTINGUISH, as in "the flamboyance that marks her style", 3 : SIGNALIZE as in "this year marks our 50th anniversary"; and 4 : to take notice of, to OBSERVE.
While it has been said that Voldemort did indeed “mark” Harry as his equal when he tried to kill him, it certainly was not Voldemort’s intention to leave a scar as that “mark” of Harry being an equal. The scar is an artifact of Voldemort trying and failing to kill Harry. Voldemort “observed” that Harry did not die and so “marked” or “observed” that Harry was an equal.
Thusly, “marking” someone is more like “observing” someone. And if that is the case, then Hermione Granger can be “observed” by the Dark Lord as being his equal, just as much as Harry can.
We know from the story that Lord Voldemort is learning about Hermione Granger through his disciples – the Malfoys, Crabbe, and Goyle. We also know that Voldemort is beginning to realize what a threat Hermione is becoming through his ability to read Harry’s mind. So there are many avenues of information flowing to Voldemort that allows him to “mark” Hermione Granger as an equal.
Tom Riddle was a Prefect and Head Boy. He was considered the “brightest wizard” of his age. Hermione Granger has become a Prefect and most certainly will become Head Girl in her final year; and she is considered the “brightest witch” of her age.
Use of the Pronoun "he"
Secondly, the use of the word "him" in the phrase "will mark him as his equal" refers to the "The One with the power". Traditionally, or "in the old days", when referring to a non-gender specific noun, the personal pronoun "him" was employed to make that non-gender specific reference. However, in the modern parlance, non-gender pronouns like "they" would be employed, in order to avoid the appearance of sexist attitudes – i.e. in order to be politically correct!
Thus, "him" does not necessarily mean that "the one with the power" is a man.
The prophecy continues: "but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ..."
This of course refers to the qualities that Hermione is full of – Goodness and Love.
From what Dumbledore has stated above, it is Love that Voldemort knows nothing of, it is Love that saved Harry, but Harry does not possess enough Love to vanquish Voldemort (by his own admission)
See the next part of the prophecy:
"... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ..."
This obviously refers to the diametric opposites of the qualities of True and False, GOOD and Evil, LOVE and hate. Where there is one, the other cannot survive.
Hence, Hermione’s Goodness and Love will vanquish Voldemort, ONLY IF...
A Prophecy is made
We know after book 5 – Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix – that a prophecy was made by Sybill Trelawney, at the time a prospective Divination teacher at Hogwarts. That prophecy was the reason that Harry Potter’s parents died, and why Voldemort tried to kill Harry as well. Voldemort knew part of the prophecy because his spy overheard part of what Trelawney said. Voldemort believed that the prophecy was about Harry Potter. But the key point here is that Voldemort only received part of the prophecy.
Neville Longbottom, Harry’s class and housemate, has been considered a likely candidate as the one referred to in the Trelawney prophecy. However, I believe Jo Rowling gave us Neville as a distraction in order to keep our attention away from the obvious.
Here is the passage from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix that describes what I have stated so far.
<< Dumbledore surveyed him for a moment through his glasses. 'The odd thing, Harry, ' he said softly, 'is that it may not have meant you at all. Sybill's prophecy could have applied to two wizard boys, both born at the end of July that year, both of whom had parents in the Order of the Phoenix, both sets of parents having narrowly escaped Voldemort three times. One, of course, was you. The other was Neville Longbottom.'
'But then ... but then, why was it my name on the prophecy and not Neville's?'
'The official record was re-labelled after Voldemort's attack on you as a child, ' said Dumbledore. 'It seemed plain to the keeper of the Hall of Prophecy that Voldemort could only have tried to kill you because he knew you to be the one to whom Sybill was referring.'
'Then - it might not be me?' said Harry.
'I am afraid, ' said Dumbledore slowly, looking as though every word cost him a great effort, 'that there is no doubt that it is you. 'But you said - Neville was born at the end of July, too - and his mum and dad - 'You are forgetting the next part of the prophecy, the final identifying feature of the boy who could vanquish Voldemort ... Voldemort himself would mark him as his equal. And so he did, Harry. He chose you, not Neville. He gave you the scar that has proved both blessing and curse.'
'But he might have chosen wrong!' said Harry. 'He might have marked the wrong person!'
'He chose the boy he thought most likely to be a danger to him, ' said Dumbledore.
'And notice this, Harry: he chose, not the pureblood (which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing) but the half-blood, like himself. He saw himself in you before he had ever seen you, and in marking you with that scar, he did not kill you, as he intended, but gave you powers, and a future, which have fitted you to escape him not once, but four times so far - something that neither your parents, nor Neville's parents, ever achieved.'
'Why did he do it, then?' said Harry, who felt numb and cold. 'Why did he try and kill me as a baby? He should have waited to see whether Neville or I looked more dangerous when we were older and tried to kill whoever it was then --
'That might, indeed, have been the more practical course, ' said Dumbledore, 'except that Voldemort's information about the prophecy was incomplete. The Hog's Head inn, which Sybill chose for its cheapness, has long attracted, shall we say, a more interesting clientele than the Three Broomsticks. As you and your friends found out to your cost, and I to mine that night, it is a place where it is never safe to assume you are not being overheard. Of course, I had not dreamed, when I set out to meet Sybill Trelawney, that I would hear anything worth overhearing. My - our - one stroke of good fortune was that the eavesdropper was detected only a short way into the prophecy and thrown from the building.'
'So he only heard -?
'He heard only the beginning, the part foretelling the birth of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort. Consequently, he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you, and marking you as his equal. So Voldemort never knew that there might be danger in attacking you, that it might be wise to wait, to learn more. He did not know that you would have power the Dark Lord knows not --
'But I don't!' said Harry, in a strangled voice. 'I haven't any powers he hasn't got, I couldn't fight the way he did tonight, I can't possess people or - or kill them -'
'There is a room in the Department of Mysteries, ' interrupted Dumbledore, 'that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took you to save Sirius tonight. That power also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests. In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you.'>>
So, at least according to Dumbledore, Harry Potter is the one Sybill Trelawney indicated when she gave that prophecy so many years before.
Harry quite can’t believe it, because he says that he has not the power to vanquish the Dark Lord. He severely wounded him, but was not able to finally conquer Voldemort.
Well, in this instance, Harry's assessment is correct.. And so this means that the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord is not Harry Potter or Neville Longbottom.
I believe that Hermione Granger is the one who has the power to finally conquer Voldemort.
And I will prove it based on the prophecy itself and how Hermione Granger fits into it.
Let’s begin then with the prophecy itself. I will then break it down to its constituent parts and then make some comments on each piece of the puzzle.
From Chapter 37 of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix we have the prophecy:
<>
The first part is: 'The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... born to those…’
Sybill Trelawney here indicates that the one with the power is approaching and will soon be born.
If you remember her second prophecy, which occurred in The Prisoner of Azkaban, that prophecy was fulfilled less than 12 hours later. If this is any indicator as far as prophecies go, then it may imply that the one approaching will be born in a very short time.
So when, did Sybill Trelawney make her first prophecy? Let’s examine the clues.
Dumbledore describes his first meeting with Sybill Trelawney in Order of the Phoenix:
<<'On a cold, wet night sixteen years ago, in a room above the bar at the Hog's Head inn. I had gone there to see an applicant for the post of Divination teacher, though it was against my inclination to allow the subject of Divination to continue at all. The applicant, however, was the great-great-granddaughter of a very famous, very gifted Seer and I thought it common politeness to meet her. I was disappointed. It seemed to me that she had not a trace of the gift herself. I told her, courteously I hope, that I did not think she would be suitable for the post. I turned to leave.'>>
Okay, the time Dumbledore is referring to is sixteen years previous to the current time. The current date is late Spring of 1996. Harry is 15 years old and in his fifth year at Hogwarts. Hermione is 16 years old and in her fifth year at Hogwarts. Sixteen-plus years previous to the current date would make it Summer-1979 to Spring-1980.
Second, Dumbledore went to the meeting sixteen years ago to "see an applicant for the post of Divination teacher". So, it was a job interview to fill a teaching vacancy.
This implies that the meeting probably took place sometime in the fall, near the beginning of the school year – Autumn-1979.
Can we pinpoint exactly when the meeting took place? Yes, we can get quite close.
From book 5, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, we have the following exchange between Dolores Umbridge and Professor Trelawney:
<< Professor Umbridge was now standing at Professor Trelawneys shoulder making notes while the Divination teacher questioned Neville about his dream diary. 'What night did you dream this again?' Ron said, immersed in calculations. 'I dunno, last night, whenever you like, ' Harry told him, trying to listen to what Umbridge was saying to Professor Trelawney. They were only a table away from him and Ron now. Professor Umbridge was making another note on her clipboard and Professor Trelawney was looking extremely put out. 'Now, ' said Umbridge, looking up at Trelawney, 'you've been in this post how long, exactly?' Professor Trelawney scowled at her, arms crossed and shoulders hunched as though wishing to protect herself as much as possible from the indignity of the inspection. After a slight pause in which she seemed to decide that the question was not so offensive that she could reasonably ignore it, she said in a deeply resentful tone, 'Nearly sixteen years.'>> [emphasis mine]
When did this conversation take place? At the beginning of the second week of school., i.e. in the second week of September.
So, Sybill Trelawney had yet to be hired on as Divination teacher by the second week of September 1979.
Later in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, the following occurs in Professor Trelawney’s class:
<< The class stared perplexedly at her, then at each other. Harry, however, thought he knew what was the matter. As Professor Trelawney flounced back to the high-backed teacher's chair, her magnified eyes full of angry tears, he leaned his head closer to Ron's and muttered, 'I think she's got the results of her inspection back.' 'Professor?' said Parvati Patil in a hushed voice (she and Lavender had always rather admired Professor Trelawney). 'Professor, is there anything - er - wrong?'
'Wrong!' cried Professor Trelawney in a voice throbbing with emotion. 'Certainly not! I have been insulted, certainly... insinuations have been made against me... unfounded accusations levelled... but no, there is nothing wrong, certainly not!' She took a great shuddering breath and looked away from Parvati, angry tears spilling from under her glasses. 'I say nothing, ' she choked, 'of sixteen years of devoted service... it has passed, apparently, unnoticed... but I shall not be insulted, no, I shall not!' 'But, Professor, who's insulting you?' asked Parvati timidly. The Establishment!' said Professor Trelawney, in a deep, dramatic, wavering voice. 'Yes, those with eyes too clouded by the mundane to See as I See, to Know as I Know... of course, we Seers have always been feared, always persecuted... it is - alas -our fate.'>> [emphasis mine]
And the time frame Professor Trelawney makes these statements? Early to mid-October.
Her words: "of sixteen years of devoted service... it has passed, apparently, unnoticed..." imply that her sixteenth anniversary as a teacher came and went without anyone apparently noticing.
That is, her 16th anniversary as a teacher at Hogwarts occurred sometime between the second week of September and the 2nd - 3rd week of October.
This means that she was hired by Dumbledore in the same time frame in the year 1979.
Hermione Granger was born on September 19, 1979.
Hence, the night when Sybill Trelawney made her famous prophecy and the day that Hermione Granger was born lies in very close proximity to each other.
The next part of the prophecy states: "born to those who have thrice defied him, "
"Born to those" can mean several things:
1. It can indicate the immediate "parents" specifically Mr. and Mrs. Granger, or
2. the Granger family through more than one generation, or
3. it can mean a "class" of people like nobility versus commoners, or
4. it can mean the world of Muggles as opposed to the world of Wizards.
"Defied" means 1 : to challenge to combat; 2 : to challenge to do something considered impossible : DARE; 3 : to confront with assured power of resistance : DISREGARD ; 4 : to resist attempts at : WITHSTAND
While we know very little at this point in the story (Book Five) of the parentage of Hermione Granger, any argument specifying them as the object of this part of the prophecy would be necessarily weak; likewise with any speculation on the Granger family through several generations, or even the class of society from which Hermione comes.
The strongest hypothesis in this regard has to do with the concept that the Muggles have thriced defied Voldemort. How so? We know for instance that Voldemort’s own Muggle father "disregarded" both he and his mother, thus "defying" them. Likewise, Tom Riddle's parents -- Voldemort's grandparents -- both "defied" him. After all, there were three that were found murdered at the Riddle home, and we know what happens to anyone who "defies" the Dark Lord!
Hermione Granger comes from a family where no one was ever a wizard or witch. She is completely Muggle-born, and thus was "born to those" that thrice defied Voldemort.
The next part of the prophecy states: "born as the seventh month dies ..."
Dumbledore, as well as Voldemort, along with most everyone else assumes that this indicates that the person identified as the Vanquisher was born in the month of July, and more specifically "at the end of July".
However, if one examines the history of the calendar and goes back to the original Roman calendar, the situation changes dramatically.
The names of all our months come from Latin.
January - from Januarius. Named after Janus, the two-headed god of beginnings.
February - from Februarius.
March - from Martius. Named after Mars, the god of war, it was originally the first month of the Roman year.
April - from Aprilis.
May - from Maius. Named after Maia, the mother of Mercury
June - from Junius. Named after Juno, the queen of the gods.
July - from Julius. Named after Julius Caesar, this month was originally called Quintilis, a word related to the adjective quintus, meaning fifth. (Quintilis was the fifth month of the year when the calendar started with Martius.)
August - from Augustus. Named after Augustus Caesar, this month was originally called Sextilis, related to sextus, sixth, because it was originally the sixth month of the year.
September, October, November, and December are taken directly from Latin.
The words for these months are related to septimus, octavus, nonus, and decimus, because they were originally the seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth months of the year.
Septimus for September – the SEVENTH MONTH of the year!
One can see the relationship now between Ron Weasley’s birthday and that of Hermione.
Ron’s birthday was originally the first day of the year.
In general, the Roman calendar was built around the phases of the moon or the lunar cycle. The lunar cycle begins with the New Moon, hits the midway point of its cycle when the moon waxes to Full, and then wanes (or dies) until the New Moon is again reached.
September 19th is a day in the seventh month, which historically occurred during the waning or "dying" of the moon.
More specifically, the word "month" comes from the old English word "moonth" which means "lunar cycle". If one counts from March 1st of 1979 and proceeds to September of 1979, they will find that the SEVENTH MOONTH or Lunar Cycle of 1979 DIED on September 20th!! The New Moon, in September 1979, occurred on September 21st thus beginning the next lunar cycle.
Hermione Granger was born "as the seventh month died".
The prophecy continues: "and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal"
Tom Marvolo Riddle, aka Voldemort, was "the brightest wizard of his age." Hermione Granger has been described by practically everyone, including Harry Potter, as the "brightest witch of her age", thus in terms of academic stature and keenness of mind, Hermione is "graded" or "marked" as Voldemort’s equal. (This section will be augmented with specific examples – RMM) I believe also that Voldemort will begin to realize this in the next chapters of Harry Potter and as a result, Hermione will be placed in a great deal of peril and danger! Hence our need to form the League of Protection!!
The use of the word "mark" is very interesting. We last ran across that reference in Book 1: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone. At the end of the story Dumbledore is talking to Harry. Here is what he says:
<< "Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot understand, it is love. He didn't realize that love as powerful as your mother's for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible sign... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was agony to touch a person marked by something so good.">>
Here are some alternate definitions of the verb "mark": 1 : GRADE as in mark term papers, 2 : CHARACTERIZE, DISTINGUISH, as in "the flamboyance that marks her style", 3 : SIGNALIZE as in "this year marks our 50th anniversary"; and 4 : to take notice of, to OBSERVE.
While it has been said that Voldemort did indeed “mark” Harry as his equal when he tried to kill him, it certainly was not Voldemort’s intention to leave a scar as that “mark” of Harry being an equal. The scar is an artifact of Voldemort trying and failing to kill Harry. Voldemort “observed” that Harry did not die and so “marked” or “observed” that Harry was an equal.
Thusly, “marking” someone is more like “observing” someone. And if that is the case, then Hermione Granger can be “observed” by the Dark Lord as being his equal, just as much as Harry can.
We know from the story that Lord Voldemort is learning about Hermione Granger through his disciples – the Malfoys, Crabbe, and Goyle. We also know that Voldemort is beginning to realize what a threat Hermione is becoming through his ability to read Harry’s mind. So there are many avenues of information flowing to Voldemort that allows him to “mark” Hermione Granger as an equal.
Tom Riddle was a Prefect and Head Boy. He was considered the “brightest wizard” of his age. Hermione Granger has become a Prefect and most certainly will become Head Girl in her final year; and she is considered the “brightest witch” of her age.
Use of the Pronoun "he"
Secondly, the use of the word "him" in the phrase "will mark him as his equal" refers to the "The One with the power". Traditionally, or "in the old days", when referring to a non-gender specific noun, the personal pronoun "him" was employed to make that non-gender specific reference. However, in the modern parlance, non-gender pronouns like "they" would be employed, in order to avoid the appearance of sexist attitudes – i.e. in order to be politically correct!
Thus, "him" does not necessarily mean that "the one with the power" is a man.
The prophecy continues: "but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ..."
This of course refers to the qualities that Hermione is full of – Goodness and Love.
From what Dumbledore has stated above, it is Love that Voldemort knows nothing of, it is Love that saved Harry, but Harry does not possess enough Love to vanquish Voldemort (by his own admission)
See the next part of the prophecy:
"... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ..."
This obviously refers to the diametric opposites of the qualities of True and False, GOOD and Evil, LOVE and hate. Where there is one, the other cannot survive.
Hence, Hermione’s Goodness and Love will vanquish Voldemort, ONLY IF...
And that's that. The text was unfinished.. What do you guys think??
Apollo
Do you lick pussy?
ok something just popped into my mind. what about Ollivander. remember he mysteriously disapeared and he is also the one who created Harry and Voldermorts wands. what if he has an important part in all of this.
Not a huge theory, but who do you think harry will end up with romantically (if he ends up living at all)? I don't believe the Ginny/Harry relationship, and based on how it's written, I don't think we're meant to believe it legitimately. In fact, I feel like she's written more chemistry proper for Neville/Ginny. For a while, I felt like Harry's only good romantic foil would be Draco, especially after the final events in HBP. However, we all know that probably would never happen. As well, after watching OtP, I feel like Luna could be a good match for Harry...but I've been rusty on keeping track of her an I don't recall if it's been flat out written as an impossibility.
three_wish35
On the Prowl
If the spoilers found on the following website are true, there is a chapter in the last book called "The Wandmaker".
WARNING: The following link contains spoilers/leaks from the final HP book!
http://www.zendurl.com/h/hallows/
three_wish35
On the Prowl
Oh, lucky!!! But don't spoil it for us. I still have 08:15 to go!!!
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2005
- Posts
- 41,664
- Reaction score
- 9
- Points
- 0
- Location
- Home is where the heart is
- Website
- www.myspace.com
Well, it seems Wikipedia has the low down, and it's just gone one and a half hours after midnight.
Someone is a speed reader.
Someone is a speed reader.
starlight70
JUB Addict
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Posts
- 1,272
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 0
Finished reading.
Man, I liked the book. I loved the intense chasing and fights.
I thought the ending would be another LOTR showdowns, but that would do.
And seriously, I did hope HP would end up with Hermione. Interesting that there would be a jump into 19 years later. But I prefer the chapters before the 19 years later thing.
Man, I liked the book. I loved the intense chasing and fights.
I thought the ending would be another LOTR showdowns, but that would do.
And seriously, I did hope HP would end up with Hermione. Interesting that there would be a jump into 19 years later. But I prefer the chapters before the 19 years later thing.