Harvard Allows ROTC back on campus

[rareboy]

Calling the repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy a “historic step,” Harvard University President Drew Faust said she will move toward allowing ROTC on campus.

Harvard has banned the ROTC from its campus since the Vietnam War as a protest against what the university calls anti-gay discrimination.

http://hubbub.wbur.org/2010/12/20/harvard-allows-rotc

Good news.

I guess.

 

[Kulindahr]

The liberals wake up to the real world. Nice.

 

[bankside]

This seems strange: (well incidentally military recruiting at a university seems strange, but if that is the local norm then other things seem strange instead, such as

Let the gays fight in VietNam or we won't let you recruit on campus.

Really? Are we fact-checking here?

 

[Kulindahr]

This seems strange: (well incidentally military recruiting at a university seems strange, but if that is the local norm then other things seem strange instead, such as

ROTC doesn't really do all that much recruiting; it mostly takes and trains students who'd already decided to go into the military, and works to turn them into officers.

 

[bankside]

I thank Harvard and other liberal colleges for taking this decades-old principled stand in the face of anti-gay bigotry. Now that the rest of the World has caught up to us, it seems fair that ROTC is allowed back on campus.

No seriously though, I can't argue with their stand (or at least the political scope to maintain such a stand)...but was it really based on opposition to military homophobia? How about opposition to the "policy of containment" in southeast asia?

 

[Kulindahr]

No seriously though, I can't argue with their stand (or at least the political scope to maintain such a stand)...but was it really based on opposition to military homophobia? How about opposition to the "policy of containment" in southeast asia?

As friends of mine experienced it, it was opposition to anything that could be a weapon and anyone who was willing to carry one.

 

[bankside]

Okay I'm just saying because as we can see from another thread running on at the moment, "Gay people should have equal treatment in the military" is a very different position from "Gay people shouldn't want to join the military because the military is double plus bad."

 

[chance1]

I thank Harvard and other liberal colleges for taking this decades-old principled stand in the face of anti-gay bigotry. Now that the rest of the World has caught up to us, it seems fair that ROTC is allowed back on campus.

that's why they banned ROTC??? had not heard that

frankly i don't buy it

and i would tell harvard thanks but no thanks

 

[Kulindahr]

^
The government was a set of cowards: they should have said no ROTC, not one dime of federal money, even as loans.

 

[Kulindahr]

Discriminate against gays AND cut off educating America's young people? Terrific.

Can it get any better than that?

If universities decide to discriminate, the federal government should pull every last cent.

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh how my heart bleeds for bigots.


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Not...

I see you only oppose discrimination sometimes. You want universities to teach bigotry when you like it.

 

[ThreeCrows]

I see you only oppose discrimination sometimes. You want universities to teach bigotry when you like it.

Huh?
How did you connect to this: "You want universities to teach bigotry when you like it."

 

[Kulindahr]

Huh?
How did you connect to this: "You want universities to teach bigotry when you like it."

He's been cheering one kind of bigotry, and wants universities to teach it by banning opposing viewpoints.

 

[Kulindahr]

Now you sound like Jerry Falwell.

Apparently you don't get the right-wing emails that call anti-gay bigotry "opposing viewpoints."

It's ok, the both of you wishfully think it's going to help put on an air of legitimacy in the end.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't give a microphone to the military under DADT any faster than I would the KKK.

That would be your choice.

But in the case of a university, there are two relevant things: first, that they have essentially a contractual relationship with the government, second that their job is to teach.

In terms of the contract, they are obligated to promote at the very least those things the Constitution assigns to the government, one of which is providing for the common defense. ROTC is a part of that task. Barring ROTC thus sets the university against the government's duty. It is therefore incumbent on the government to withdraw all support from that university, because the university is setting itself to the task of undermining the Constitution.

In terms of teaching, a university is to allow students to examine all views. Barring the ROTC is teaching that the military is evil (which is how we got so darned many people who would rather run and hide than ever defend their country). The university has no business abandoning its job in that fashion. And if a university is acting contrary to its mission, the government is obligated to withdraw all support and put it somewhere actual learning is occurring.

In a university situation, teaching anti-gay material in the same way that the existence of the ROTC program teaches respect for the mission of the military in defending the nation, i.e. in allowing a club that holds that position, does make it an opposing viewpoint.

But in both situations, the university may decide that not just clubs but classes are appropriate to truly examine that and its opposing views. If a university thinks that the military has become a force more often evil than good, it can institute a class on all the ways the military has screwed up and/or committed atrocities; I'll call it MFU 101, for "Military Fuck-Ups". THe same could be done for the gay issue; I'll call that class WAGBATM 101, for "Why the Anti_Gay Bigots Are Total Morons".

If we have intellectual freedom, it has to be freedom. When it isn't, it's the government's duty to withdraw support.



BTW, I didn't know Jerry Falwell ever addressed the matter of ROTC on campus.

 

[Kulindahr]

Can you read? You sure as hell can't comprehend. I said "You sound like Jerry Falwell," and not "That's what Jerry Falwell said."

What you can't ignore however is the fact that right-wing groups try to legitimize their hatred by invoking the American ideal of diversity of opinion, that same "diversity of opinion" mind you which is killing our young teens who are psychologically tormented and feel like they have no place in society.

So what's happening is you're pretending I'm talking about something I haven't even touched on so you can say I sound like someone you don't like.

I'm talking about a contractual relationship between government and university, and about the function of a university. So unless Jerry Falwell ever talked about those, I only sound like him in your imagination.

 

[Kulindahr]

I did answer.

I guess you didn't look at the link.

I read the article, and I agree that you didn't answer. What you did was dodge.

 

[rareboy]

Please remember that this thread is about the ROTC being allowed back on campus.

 

[01solara]

Oh how my heart bleeds for bigots.


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Not...

If you are calling Kuli a bigot you need to self check. Why are you so angry and mean all the time. The ban finally gets lifted and you continue onward with the name calling and the endless slash/burn tactics with anyone who dares to disagree with you. How very said.

 

[rareboy]

Now girls.

Play nice in this thread or I'll have to ask Santa to lock it down.

Or leave coal in stockings.

Seriously.

 

[Kulindahr]

Harvard should also issue an apology for ever having been so anti-American and anti-Constitution.

And if they're honorable, they'll write a check to the federal government for every bit of government money they received in the meantime.

Otherwise, this isn't praiseworthy at all -- there's no praise for doing something that should never have been necessary at all.